Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Current Topics
Round Table Winter 2021
by Jeffery J. Haas - 01/25/22 04:43 AM
by pdx rick - 01/25/22 03:59 AM
National Commission to Investigate the January 6
by pdx rick - 01/25/22 01:55 AM
They're saying the quiet parts out loud now
by pdx rick - 01/25/22 01:35 AM
by perotista - 01/24/22 11:00 PM
Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century?
by pondering_it_all - 01/24/22 10:55 PM
The long and winding road to Dumbass
by chunkstyle - 01/24/22 05:37 PM
Interesting read - maybe
by Mellowicious - 01/24/22 06:19 AM
Don't look up
by Jeffery J. Haas - 01/23/22 03:23 AM
XX or XY Genome
by Ken Condon - 01/22/22 07:01 PM
Texas hostages
by Mellowicious - 01/20/22 03:57 AM
Lindsey v. Mitch: Senate cage match
by logtroll - 01/15/22 05:11 AM
Complexity Science
by Jeffery J. Haas - 01/12/22 06:34 PM
What's for dinner?
by pondering_it_all - 01/02/22 09:37 PM
RoundTable For Fall 2021
by Mellowicious - 01/02/22 04:21 AM
Divorce: American Style
by pdx rick - 12/31/21 01:56 AM
Popular Topics(Views)
9,811,276 my own book page
4,874,292 We shall overcome
3,997,831 Campaign 2016
3,636,898 Trump's Trumpet
2,889,542 3 word story game
Thread Like Summary
Jeffery J. Haas
Total Likes: 6
Original Post (Thread Starter)
by Spag-hetti
I am sitting here watching Chris Hayes (MSNBC) doing a report on the California drought. And it occurred to me that there was a drought back in the 30's ... the Dust Bowl. At that time, various relatives of my ancestors fled to California ... like in the Grapes of Wrath. So many people from Oklahoma fled, that some people in California still say, "I can't go out looking like an Okie." (I've heard them.)

So, if the California drought continues, might there be an eastward migration of California farmers? Might they flee their farms, flee their homes, as jobs dry up, and head to Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, etc. to make a new start?

I learned to be a water miser when I lived in California thirty some years ago. Californians were already aware, concerned, and proactive. Yay, Californians, I love you.

And I hate to think of such a devastating thing happening to California. But, I (definitely selfishly) would love to have Californians inundate the middle states. I would love to have lots of Californians living in my neighborhood, voting in local elections, "going to the Walmart's" not looking like Okies.

The midwest could get a lot bluer.
Liked Replies
by logtroll
In a word…

[Linked Image from]
1 member likes this
by logtroll
You caught me.
1 member likes this
by pondering_it_all
The root problem is we keep dumping more CO2 into the atmosphere. Any biologist can tell you about cultures that choke on their own waste products. But you can't solve that on a state or even country basis. It takes everybody, and humanity has way too many "I've got mine, so screw you" types.

Adequate fresh water supply for California? Easily solved on a water district, county, or state level. You may have noticed that California has a long coastline, and most of the population lives near the coast. Most of the rest of the population lives in the Central Valley along Highway 99. So you build desal plants along the coast, and put one in Suisun Bay to serve the Central Valley. You've just covered almost everybody in the state. Small towns further inland have reasonable water resources. Hardly anybody lives in Death Valley, and there's plenty of Eastern Sierra water for them if LA stops depending on it.

It would actually take a lot of pressure off Nevada, Arizona, and California's Southeastern farmers near El Centro, if California stopped shipping Colorado River water to Southern California. California has priority because of very old agreements, but that ends up screwing over Mexican farmers since there is very little river by the time it gets to them. Of course, they live near the Gulf of California, so as long as we are cranking out desal plants at commodity prices maybe we build a few for them.
1 member likes this
by Mellowicious
Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted by Greger
Too many people using water unwisely.

To wit:

Growing almonds
Watering lawns to the point where they look like Kentucky
Failing to recognize the role of biomass as Loggy pointed out.

That's just three but they might be the top three.

Absolutely! The best solutions, IMHO, have to be on the front end. Shut down the swimming pools, the golf courses, the fountains. Stop growing any crop that can’t be grown with a measurable amount of water - and if that means we go back to eating produce when it’s in season rather than watering it year round, that’s fine.

Regarding desalinization - there was a lot of talk about building a desal plant on the Colorado where I lived 20 years ago. I moved so I’m not sure what happened, but it got a lot of pushback back then. I hope it’s financially more feasible now.

One other note: for a long time, we’ve been using so much of the Colorado River water that we’ve been unable to pay our water debt to Mexico. We also need to be aware of impact on the Grand Canyon - failing to do that is how we lost Glen Canyon.

Oldie but a goodie: Marc Reisner’s ”Cadillac Desert:The American west and its Disappearing Water.”
1 member likes this
by Mellowicious
A lot of the produce grown in California depends in some way on imported waters, and the aquifers aren’t refilling fast enough if at all. It’s not just almonds and rice. 1/4 of the food in this country comes from the Central Valley, and it’s almost 20% of the irrigated land in the country. Things are going to change whether we prepare for it or not.

And shut off that XxxxxFountain in Las Vegas - complete waste presented as a Good Thing.
1 member likes this
by logtroll
Delusion… what would humans do without it?

We had our first Civilian Climate Corps community conversation yesterday, which is not really what I want to talk about, at least not directly. My aim for initiating a local CCC project is to center it on an area known as Fort Bayard, a collection of old buildings and associated well-used grounds, surrounded by a watershed of about 10,000 acres that served as a primary resource for animal grazing and firewood for the 1866 military installation. The reason for putting a fort there was to "protect" the invading forces of miners and cattlemen from the marauding Apache savages. If you do an internet search for Fort Bayard you will find that the history of the area begins in 1866 and there is no information on what it was like before that. It is notable that the soldiers deployed to the fort to fight (eradicate) the Indians were Negro "Buffalo Soldiers" left over from the Civil War. After some time the pesky Apaches were neutralized and Fort Bayard proper changed use from a military installation to a national cemetery and an army tuberculosis sanatarium. In the early 1900's the State of New Mexico mostly took over operations as a hospital and long term nursing care facility.

In the 1930's the Civilian Conservation Corps did a lot of work to mitigate erosion in the watershed (the result of overuse and abuse by the army), primarily by installing stone checkdams in the ever deepening arroyos. While the CCC work was reasonably effective in the short term catching sediment and slowing rainfall runoff, it did little to restore the heavily damaged ecosystem. Sometime later, the greater Fort Bayard military reservation was designated as a wildlife refuge (damed little wildlife there anymore) managed by the US Forest Service. Around 2009, the lingering, but run down hospital was closed and a new hospital built a half mile away. Recently, part of the old fort/medical center campus was leased to the nearby Village of Santa Clara, who intends to renovate some of it as a historical tourist attraction.

Ironically (delusionally?), the history presented to the tourons will be a glorification of the invasion of the white culture into the homeland of the Chiricahua Apache, taking over one of the prime campsites for the nomadic tribe, murdering the residents, and ruining the healthy local ecosystem, all for the purpose of supporting mindless greed attended by exploitation and abuse.

Mindless greed attended by exploitation and abuse is the root cause of the climate crisis.

The idea to use Fort Bayard as a base for launching a new CCC, building on the history of the old Civilian Conservation Corps and the current 51 year old Youth Conservation Corps, and restoring the land while telling the true history as part of educating people about what we have done to the Earth, and positive actions we can take to change our culture from one of destruction to restoration, is something to have hope and inspiration around.

Am I optimistic? Yes. Am I pessimistic? Yes. Am I delusional? Probably. But in the mortal words of Tony Soprano,

[Linked Image from]
1 member likes this
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 27 guests, and 0 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
SuZQ2, KevFilthyANML, Risky, Gladys G. Jackson, Beach Baby
6,297 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Most Online294
Dec 6th, 2017
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.27 Page Time: 0.575s Queries: 15 (0.567s) Memory: 2.6903 MB (Peak: 2.8150 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2022-01-25 13:50:06 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS