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Jeffery J. Haas, NW Ponderer, pdx rick
Total Likes: 8
Original Post (Thread Starter)
#335029 08/13/2021 12:48 PM
by logtroll
logtroll
Did Biden make the right call, or did he make a big mistake?

Not being a junkie for such international affairs, my first reaction is to think that Afghanistan has long been an open sore, and nobody seems to have found a cure (it’s not clear me that anyone’s objective has ever been a “cure”).

I can imagine that there are bigger picture strategies that benefit from containment of the Taliban, but I know nothing about them.

Just read an opinion piece by Peter Bergen who says that whatever disaster unfolds there will be Biden’s fault - no doubt that will be the political fallout, but it seems like a petty and naive claim from a distinguished expert. I think Bergen has a major bias, but no cure to offer.

Any opinions?
Liked Replies
#335031 Aug 13th a 04:51 PM
by Greger
Greger
Quote
Did Biden make the right call, or did he make a big mistake?

I don't think ending a war is ever a bad thing. Especially a decades-long failed occupation.

Any nation-building that gets done needs to be done by Afghanis. Chances are the Taliban will take over, there will be armed rebellions and the Tribes will split again. Folks are gonna suffer either way, but at least they will be suffering at the hands of their own countryman instead of Americans.
1 member likes this
#335048 Aug 15th a 12:44 AM
by Greger
Greger
Very few in the West much give a rat's ass what happens in Afghanistan one way or the other.

Biden botched the exodus. They shoulda been flying civilians out of there for months before they moved any military personnel.
1 member likes this
#335089 Aug 18th a 10:41 PM
by Mellowicious
Mellowicious
Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
If you are doing farm labor, what difference does it make if the guys walking around with machine guns are American or Taliban.

A lot of difference, if you’re a woman in Afghanistan. The Taliban swears “It will be different this time, baby, I promise” - - but it’s a hollow promise, and if we’re a woman in Afghanistan I’d whatever I could to run for my life.
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#335030 Aug 13th a 02:34 PM
by perotista
perotista
Does anyone remember the main reason the 13 tribe Northern Alliance were fighting the Taliban in the first place? Each tribe is fiercely independent, wanting to be ruled over by their own tribal elders and religious folks. Not by someone from an outside tribe. The Taliban were trying to rule over all the tribes of Afghanistan, rule by one tribe, one man.

Sure, we were after UBL and AQ as the reason we went in and became involved. We fought a very smart war to begin with. With a few SF and paramilitary folks on the ground letting the Afghani do the ground fighting, using our air power, we drove the Taliban, AQ, UBL into the mountains on the Pakistani Border.

Then we began this thing called Nation Building. Guess what? We decided to force a form of government on the Afghans that they didn't want. All the tribes of the Northern Alliance wanted was to return to their tribal homeland, be ruled over by their own tribal elders and religious folks. Not to be ruled over by another tribe or a leader from another tribe.

The short story is we didn't let the Afghani decide what form of government they wanted, we decided for them. This caused many of the original 13 tribes of the Northern Alliance who were once our staunch allies to desert us and begin to fight us and the government we set up. Not the Afghan's, but we.

there's a heck of a lot more in this story. More than a book's worth. Have no doubt that once the Taliban is back in control, AQ and ISIS will return to their original training ground.

Did Biden make a mistake, someone had to decide to end this affair even though I'm positive it will mean we return in different ways to take on AQ and ISIS again along with the Taliban. AQ and ISIS will give us plenty of reasons to return.

The mistake was nation building, we deciding that Democracy would be the Afghans form of government. Not letting the Afghani decide what form of government on their own. Could Biden take a huge hit on the withdrawal. Certainly, especially when AQ and ISIS return and begin launching terrorist attacks. Biden will be blamed. The blame should rest on those who decided to force a type of government on the Afghani's that they didn't want and were willing to fight against. And yes, to join the Taliban to get rid of this unwanted type of government.

After the smart war, without nation building there was a simple way to ensure the Taliban, ISIS and AQ didn't return without a hundred thousand troops on the ground.. That's another story for another day.
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#335052 Aug 15th a 04:24 PM
by Jeffery J. Haas
Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted by perotista
The state department is always like that. They want to remain until the very end, perhaps as a sign of support for the government, but who knows.

You don't think individual hubris and pride play a role in the delays and the incompetence?
I don't think anyone ever wants to be the last one to shut off the lights and lock the doors.
Thus, the job falls to no one and no one does the job.
1 member likes this
#335623 Sep 5th a 12:03 AM
by pondering_it_all
pondering_it_all
Quote
religious extremists

I noticed a quote from one Taliban fighter at the airport who said he'd just like a peaceful life without his wife and children having to worry about drone attacks. I think the main difference between Taliban versus other Afghans, is the Taliban soldiers believed in something bigger than themselves. Others believed they could make a buck serving in the Afghan Army. Taliban soldiers still believe, soldiers on the other side don't. That's why the collapse was so quick.
1 member likes this
#336096 Sep 18th a 11:35 PM
by pondering_it_all
pondering_it_all
It's good the Pentagon has admitted they droned the wrong car, and just killed a bunch of civilians. I think some reparations would be a nice gesture.
1 member likes this
#336525 Sep 29th a 08:39 PM
by pondering_it_all
pondering_it_all
The generals testifying to congress are saying we should have not left Afghanistan. Who would think generals would favor war?
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