Capitol Hill Blue
Doctors bring the fight to anti-vaxxers online

Too many health care workers have died needlessly because of covid disinformation, and they are mad and not going to take it anymore, particularly from malicious AntiVaxers. They are organizing effectively to combat the massive social networking of the AntiVax threats!

Quote:
Doctors and nurses trying to build confidence in Covid-19 vaccines on social media are mounting coordinated campaigns to combat anti-vaccination forces prevalent on those platforms.

At the same time, public health groups are mobilizing a global network of vaccine advocates to come to their aid when they are attacked online by activists, who closely monitor certain hashtags and keywords. The groups use monitoring software to swiftly identify online attacks, then tap their networks to flood social media posts with supportive messages countering vaccine opponents.

“It’s turning into a military campaign, in terms of how we have to treat the opposition,” said Sunny Jha, a Houston anesthesiologist who organized the #ThisIsOurShot campaign, through which thousands of health care workers have shared their own experiences getting Covid-19 vaccines. “As a new group we had to kind of be smart about how exactly we strategize.”
Here we go again with elites with their degrees and knowledge and experience spouting off about how my gut feeling and the gut feelings of millions of others is somehow not as valuable as their “expertise”.

Like I’m supposed to believe them?!? The elites were wrong about the solar system and disease for millennia and now we’re supposed to take their word about something as newfangled as vaccines?!!!!!!!
Oh SNAP :ohsnap:!

I knew that somewhere somehow that original soul of Irkdome could be ressurected! grin
Welcome back Bow
TAT
Originally Posted By: Irked
...something as newfangled as vaccines?!!!!!!!

I'm waiting for the Dyson Vaccinator - it'll suck the Covid right outta ya, and I can get it battery powered!
You do have to keep on recharging those batteries, though. Get some spares.
Ya sure dont want to be left hanging, if ya get my meaning, if ya catch my drift!

Oh you said Vaccinator , my bad?
I love all these anti-vax folks who say vaccinated old people dying is proof the vaccine is deadly. 40 million vaccinations and a thousand 80+ year olds die. I got news for them: Old people die. Especially from Covid-19 before their vaccine immunity kicks in. And they would have died at the same rate even without the vaccine.
It seems as if a lot of black folks are having problems taking the vaccine due to the The Tuskegee Syphilis Study of the 30's. Its unfortunate and it was a long time ago. They seem be be determined to re-hash that which happened a long time ago. Now, apparently, whitey has decided to feel guilty and is working very hard to get them to take the vaccine and they seem to be working just as hard not to. I have some problems with folks who don't want to take the vaccine because of this or that. I also don't understand why they just done give all the teachers the vaccine. Just give it to them and then they will stop being angry about it. Right now there is not enough vaccine to go around (but there is more coming every day it seems).

Anyway, I am for just giving anybody who wants a shot to have one. That is apparently about a month away but more an more are getting the vaccine. Those that don't want to take the vaccines have to pay the price and that might be death. As I watch the black community talk about it I get more and more confused as much of what they are saying tends to infer that they are punishing whitey for all the bad things they did. The problem is that they are not really punishing whitey so much as themselves. Given, however, the simple fact that whenever there are vaccines there seems to be takers, even black takers.

The real problem, for most, is that much of the distributions are screwed up one way or another due to everything from gov to the weather. The gov thing is, I think, not helping and takes the thought that gov can't get anything right yet another step down a really bad path. I just wish gov would stop screwing around, quit the who gets what, when, and where, instead of just start getting everybody available for shots to get shots. After that gets done there will be lots of time to beat our breasts about bad things done almost a 100 years ago or more.

The black thing is unfortunate. My suspicion is that if gov just started giving shots to whoever wants them that a lot of them that don't want the shots now will probably change their minds once they see that nobody is dying from the shots. That, however, isn't going to happen until a lot more get the vaccine.

I apologize if I have offended over this - its not what I intended.
I got shot yesterday, and I'm no worse than usual! I read all the published reports, but would have taken any of them!

TAT
The really sad thing is people with darker skin are likely to have much lower levels of Vitamin D, which seems to be highly correlated with mortality. Around twice as many Black folks have died, as compared to their numbers in the population. It's easy to understand their reluctance to get vaccinated, but I think if we had a national policy of White Folks First they would be marching for vaccine equality.

It's self destructive. I wish they would all at least take Vitamin D3 to make themselves more resistant. Instead I have seen a few articles claiming Vitamin D deficiency is natural for Black people. Hogwash! Maasai tribesmen who live in Africa have very high levels, just like Hawaiian lifeguards, because of the tropical sun.
Put it in their well!

There has been considerable Vitamin D deficiency in
whites related to the increased use of sunscreens!
Originally Posted By: TatumAH
Doctors bring the fight to anti-vaxxers online

Too many health care workers have died needlessly because of covid disinformation, and they are mad and not going to take it anymore, particularly from malicious AntiVaxers. They are organizing effectively to combat the massive social networking of the AntiVax threats!

Quote:
Doctors and nurses trying to build confidence in Covid-19 vaccines on social media are mounting coordinated campaigns to combat anti-vaccination forces prevalent on those platforms.

At the same time, public health groups are mobilizing a global network of vaccine advocates to come to their aid when they are attacked online by activists, who closely monitor certain hashtags and keywords. The groups use monitoring software to swiftly identify online attacks, then tap their networks to flood social media posts with supportive messages countering vaccine opponents.

“It’s turning into a military campaign, in terms of how we have to treat the opposition,” said Sunny Jha, a Houston anesthesiologist who organized the #ThisIsOurShot campaign, through which thousands of health care workers have shared their own experiences getting Covid-19 vaccines. “As a new group we had to kind of be smart about how exactly we strategize.”


I read through the PDF attached for a bit. I'm not sure "we banned a lot of people from our facebook page, and some other folks came in and said things we wish we could have, but we had to be professional" really counts as "fighting back".....
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
I read through the PDF attached for a bit. I'm not sure "we banned a lot of people from our facebook page, and some other folks came in and said things we wish we could have, but we had to be professional" really counts as "fighting back".....


Were you trying to make a point?
What do you suggest would be an effective fight?
If you have ever had to deal with a malicious troll attack on your profession that risks the death of colleagues, you would know that such altercations can be very stressful.

I guess we could kill some of them if only we could identify them and lure them into our special medical "care", but maybe you dont understand that it might be considered unprofessional!
Maybe we should try bravely counseling them!
Originally Posted By: TatumAH

Maybe we should try bravely counseling them!

Only don’t counsel them about firearms!!!*

*However, I’m sure that ban does not extend to discussions about which gun will provide the correct ratio of firepower, convenience, style and cost nor to providing advice on the correct way to put a mammal out of its misery.
I live in the Pacific Northwest - we get a lot of rain. I had vitamin D prescribed by a doctor years ago. I have asked around and everybody I asked whether they took vitamin D have said they do as it was prescribed by their doctor. So, I guess, up here most of us have been told to take our vitamins. This also, incidentally, includes Hispanics and Black folks too.

Kinda gives one a warm feeling of belonging to the same group of Vitamin D users.
Unfortunately, a lot of doctors will tell their patients to take 1000 iu of Vitamin D per day, and justify that by saying the US RDA is 600 iu per day or 800 for people above 70. They learned in medical school that Vitamin D is fat soluble, so can accumulate in the body and cause calcification in the organs.

Research of the last 10 years says worries about Vitamin D overdose are vastly overstated. People have accidently been given 1000 times the RDA for months, with no ill effect. In fact, the calcification problem is caused by too much calcium in the blood!

The US RDA was set back when most people worked outside and got lots of sun. Sun exposure of half of the time that would cause sunburn gives you about 20,000 iu. That's 33 times the USRDA! The Endocrine Society says 50 ng/ml is optimal. That would require around 5000 iu per day for most people.

1000 iu/day will give you a blood level of 10, absent any summer sun exposure or oily fish consumption. That's a lethal deficiency if you catch Covid-19.
Vitamin D toxicity

Calcium metabolism is very tightly controlled by several hormonal systems responding to blood calcium levels, as to much or too little have severe effects. The active form of vitamin D is a hormone the 1 and 25 di hydroxy form D3 is formed in the kidney from VitD2. This conversion is tightly regulated by calcium levels, so that excess D2 is not converted to VitD3. This protects from excess D2 and excess calcium in the diet by not stimulating Calcium absorption from the bowel.
This protective mechanism is bypassed by taking Vit D3, which is not found in food.
So large and even massive doses of D2 are not toxic, but excess D3 can be. It is confusing, and even in this paper on VitD, it is often unclear what forms of Vit D are being discussed.

It is obviously important to know what form of VitD is in your supplements!

Quote:
This discovery of Dudenkov et al1is logical because the body tightly controls the conversion of 25(OH)D2 to 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3, which is responsible for regulating calcium metabolism by enhancing intestinal calcium absorption and mobilizing calcium from the skeleton. A study of healthy adults who received 1000 IU of vitaminD3 daily for 11 weeks and who raised their blood levels of 25(OH)D from 22.213 to 33.67.5ng/mL reported that blood levels of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D did not change: baseline,35.413.0 pg/mL; 11 weeks later, 34.313.8pg/mL.1
I don't think there is any conversion between D3 and D2. D3 comes from animal sources like oily fish, production in the skin following UVB exposure, or by supplements made from lanolin. D2 comes from plants, especially mushrooms exposed to UVB light.

Both of them are converted slowly to their 25 hydroxy form in the liver, but they remain distinct: 25 hydroxy-D3 and 25 hydroxy-D2. Those are the value measured in the blood, and can vary a lot.

The homeostatic tight regulation happens in the kidneys: The hydroxy forms are converted to 1,25 dihydroxy D3 and 1,25 dihydroxy D2. These are the active forms that bind to cellular Vitamin D receptors. D3 binds a little better, but D2 still does the job.

I have read a few papers that say some immune cells can make their own active 1,25 dihydroxy form out of the 25 hydroxy form that gets into the cell from the blood or intracellular space. That would obviously escape the tight regulation performed by the kidneys.

One reason I say there is no D2<->D3 conversion is because doctors can tell if patients with high 25 hydroxy-D are taking supplements (almost entirely D3) or being treated by a doctor with Vitamin D injections (all D2 in the US).

As for D2 being safe and D3 being dangerous, I think the original UK scare about Vitamin D toxicity was all about D2. Sunlight exposure tops out at about 70 ng/ml of D3, which does not seem to hurt anybody but people with rare Vitamin D-related diseases. Toxicity seems to start at about 150 ng/ml.

I'm sure you know a lot more about the control and role of Calcium in the body. I have not really looked at that at all.
I have read that people with kidney disease need 1,25 dihydroxy D administered very carefully so as not to screw up their Calcium levels. Just like in diabetes, built-in homeostatic regulation works a lot better than doctors trying to do the job with their clumsy over and under-dosing, that fits hospital medication schedules.
Since the kidneys actually make the 1,25 D3 from D2, when you dont have active kidney tissue, you are completely dependent on exogenous D3. To make matters even worse the typical hypocalcemia of renal failure cranks up the parathyroids to keep calcium up to normal levels, by mobilizing bone calcium and dissolving the skeleton. The resulting hyperparathyroidism raises the calcium levels and tends to deposits calcium in other organs, calcinosis. Adding D3 to this can make it worse. Its a real rock and a hard place scenario!

The kidney also make erythropoietin (EPO) needed to to generate red cells from marrow, so it also has to be provided in renal failure to treat the chronic anemia.
Its a very tricky business taking over the endocrine functions of the kidney with loss of the normal regulatory feedback mechanism.

for more details of calcium in renal failure
So that's why dialysis patients die. Much more complicated than I thought.

I have a weird condition where I often have sugar in my urine, but I never have a positive A1C. If I eat a lot of sugar, my kidney's seem to piss it out very efficiently. This has always been the case, from childhood. I have a familial history of diabetes. I also have peripheral afferent neuropathy (numb feet) from myelin degeneration.

My neurologist says neuropathy is not a symptom of my MS. Is it possible to have diabetic neuropathy without a positive A1C? Or do I just have an autoimmune reaction to myelin?

To top that off, my wife has an undiagnosed (or rather multiple different diagnoses) autoimmune condition against maybe connective tissue? Maybe against something else?

There is a possibility that both of our problems are the same unknown pathogen since she was a Veterinary Pathologist and could have been exposed to something weird that I caught. Her problem could be an unknown parasite since artemisia seems to help her cyclic episodes.
Idiopathic Glycosuia

Idiopathic peripheral neuropathy, is common and is diagnosed by ruling out toxin exposure, lead, paint, etc and DM. The nerves to the feet are the longest in the body, and is a long supply line vulnerable to many many insults. So not DM neuropathy. CNS and PNS myelin are different, so doubt autoimmune neuropathy related to MS.

Some autoimmune conditions are related to molecular mimicry when some bacteria or virus resembles a human tissue antigen and mistakenly gets attacked!

Obviously I have a lot of relatively harmless defects. Renal glycosuria sounds like a winner. I am a little concerned about this:

Quote:
In most affected individuals, no treatment is required. However, some individuals with renal glycosuria may develop diabetes mellitus. (For further information, please see the "Related Disorders" section above.. Therefore, appropriate testing should be conducted to rule out diabetes and to regularly monitor those with confirmed renal glycosuria.


The problem is that doctors always look at A1C to tell if you have DM, but the renal glycosuria prevents a positive A1C! The two conditions could be unrelated, but having one prevents diagnosis of the other.
The defect would likely prevent the complications of DM, as it's the long term elevation of serum glucose that causes all the problems to, vascular, renal, and nerves! In fact one of the newer treatments, i furget the trade name, is a medication that blocks the renal
re-absorption of glucose. and dumps glucose into the urine, improving the serum glucose levels.
Google to the rescue!

Canagliflozin, Dapagliflozin, and Empagliflozin, OH MY! That's why I couldn't remember their names, I would never waste brain RAM on a bunch of, pardon the term, Copycat drugs!

Quote:

Sodium-glucose Cotransporter-2 (SGLT2) Inhibitors

SGLT2 inhibitors are a class of prescription medicines that are FDA-approved for use with diet and exercise to lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. Medicines in the SGLT2 inhibitor class include canagliflozin, dapagliflozin, and empagliflozin. They are available as single-ingredient products and also in combination with other diabetes medicines such as metformin. SGLT2 inhibitors lower blood sugar by causing the kidneys to remove sugar from the body through the urine. The safety and efficacy of SGLT2 inhibitors have not been established in patients with type 1 diabetes, and FDA has not approved them for use in these patients.

Cool! So I already have that capability without the expensive prescription.

Quote:
it's the long term elevation of serum glucose that causes all the problems to, vascular, renal, and nerves


I was hoping that was the case, but sometimes what we hope for is not the total situation.

On another good news topic, I like to watch TWIV (This Week In Virology) on YouTube. Once a week they hear from Dr. Griffin who is a honcho of docs treating Covid-19 patients every day. This week he mentioned the benefits of treating admitted patients with 25(OH)-Vitamin D, as discussed by the Spanish trials. He also mentioned this later when he was discussing GPs treating Covid19 outpatients instead of just sending them home to isolate until they either get better or worse and need hospitalization.

He also said people who get vaccinations and soon after discover they have been exposed right around that time, tend to do better than those who don't get vaccinations. So immunity may not begin much before 14 days post vaccination, but apparently just giving your immune system a few days jump on it's response is useful.

Some do that now with people bitten by rabid animals on the extremities, since the immune system can be faster than the rabies virus getting into the central nervous system. Facial bites are more urgent. They require quick treatment with antibodies.
Finally got an appointment. Gonna git Phizerd on Wednesday.
dont get incisored
A wizard cain’t git incisored!
but maybe gizzard?
Wife has been holding out for J & J vaccine, because she is very reactive to foreign stuff. She wanted a one-shot. She heard California is giving all their J & J vaccine to field workers and the homeless, for logistic reasons so she gave up. She timed it perfectly! Literally 10 minutes later I had a Pfizer vaccine appointment for her tomorrow. She also only wanted to go to two of the county's drive-up sites, but they were all full. Got her an appointment at one of our health care group's suburban sites, which turns out to be a drive-up! We had no idea is was not walk-in until we already made the appointment and received the detailed instructions.

I get my second Moderna shot on Sunday, after being rescheduled twice. They keep on running out. I'll be part of the involuntary five week cohort, which is fine with me. Certainly not going anywhere until about 7 weeks from now, after my wife has good immunity.
That there is a biohazzard!
it's merle haggardous
Wife's Pfizer jab 1 went off without a hitch, or even a very long line. We remained in our car. Just verified her identity at the first station. Didn't even have to show her driver license or insurance card. Then we were waved into the immunization lines. Answered a few questions about allergies and such, and then a nurse injected her right through the open window. Directed into some parking spaces where we waited 15 minutes, and then back on the highway home. Very efficient.

That was five hours ago, and so far she feels fine.
It's the second jab that sometimes causes a reaction. Skinny athletic women were hardest hit in my circle of friends.
Congrats on getting you wife Pfizered, that has got to be a load off of your mind. We had no reaction to the Pfizer at all, and will be getting our second round early next week. The Moderna is more reactive, and it is reasonable to get the Pfizer in people with hyperactive immune systems. This may work fine if you are in the group of people who can maintain strong distancing for all family members until immunized.

We are sure happy to be able to soon resume our grand-parenting! You can only do so much tickling and teasing with a virtual connection and a cooperative parent's Cat's paw!

TAT
I got a Moderna vaccine back at the end of January. Slots were hard to come by, and when you did get one they would not tell you which vaccine they had for it. You got what they had. When it came time for my second vaccine, the county ran out of Moderna and they had to shut down the super site for a while. They are playing catchup now. But there does seem to be plenty of Pfizer available, if you know when to look online and act quickly. I feel sorry for all the elderly not in elder care facilities, who are not computer savvy. Our neighbor was in that state, and we got her Pfizer slots.
Dey gonna shoot me in a hour anna half!
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Dey gonna shoot me in a hour anna half!


Well, that will be a powerful lesson for you!
Crikey, they done did it... but they only winged me in the shoulder, Marsha Dillon!
Dat's deltoid pilgrim
You shore it ain't cattoid?
Anoid?
Hope it dont festus!
Didya Miss Kitty?
Cattoids and Anoids and buffers Oh My!
Currently confusing, I used to have a mnemonic that was also a handle, what was it? Now I remember
LEO GER
You can get the vaccine in your anoid, if there is some reason. Or rather, anoid adjacent. Like you don't have arms. Works perfectly fine in the butt, thought it does create quite a stir at the mass vaccination sites.
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Works perfectly fine in the butt, though it does create quite a stir at the mass vaccination sites.

Mooning for shots? A prick in the auld bunghole? A Trump pucker for a sucker?
Reminds me of flashing for beads in Mardigras

As kids in N.O. we had nothing to flash, so my parents stockpiled beads to pretend to catch for us,
unless my Mom was flashing on the side!
Originally Posted By: logtroll

Mooning for shots? A prick in the auld bunghole? A Trump pucker for a sucker?


I'm sorely tempted , and overloaded ,by the plethora of questionably appropriate rhyming possibilities!
Clearly there is no bottom to this thread, though I have previously reached for it, and was sorely chastised.
So, get thee behind me Satan
I've seen women flashing for beads, and coconuts. I've caught medallions and cheap plastic beads myself, without flashing anything. And I've seen FAR FAR worse stuff on Bourbon Street that would have got the two men arrested if a cop had happened to walk by.
A good friend who lives there assures me that they no longer throw coconuts! The French Quarter after the family rated parades etc, is no place for the kids. Sometimes they reward some folks if they promise NOT to flash. What happen on Bourbon St stay on Bourbon street! Like Vegas! I was in Vegas for a transplant meeting and was confused by legalities on the strip. If I bought a beer in a shop, I had to drink it out on the street, where the "dancers" were handing out card describing their services. I walked up to a cop and asked for clarity, what was unacceptable behavior on the strip? He told me: We frown on violence! So I didnt!

TAT
Originally Posted By: TatumAH
He told me: We frown on violence! So I didnt! TAT

Trumpets, trombones, drums... but no violinse??
There is way too much Violanse violin out there already! violin

TAT
Okay, buddy-boy... I'm a violist... nono violin

(And I laughed my arse off!!)
You didn't need to tell us, it was obvious from the Beguining

There are also a few joke about French Horns too!

How can you tell if you are being kissed by a French Horn player?
There's a hand up your butt ThumbsUp
If, because of accepting the reality of being a Viola "player", you find yourself up on the roof, dont jump! There is a tradition of "fiddlers" surviving that condition, though you may have to consider leaving Russia!

Tat
It’s really odd, the thing about violas. Violinists must have a severe case of imposter syndrome. Do alto saxophonist look down on baritone saxophonists?
They all wish that they had chosen to play Tenor Sax,reputed to be the most powerful chick Magnet! Just ask Bill Clinton. Presidental Sax, when Red ,White and Blue was still patriotic
Some say the Tenor is the sexiest sax because it's husky voice resembles a sultry woman, others say that it's because it's shaped like a scrotum.

TAT
Originally Posted By: Irked
It’s really odd, the thing about violas. Violinists must have a severe case of imposter syndrome.

The sad fact is that violinists are all hyperactive and insecure narcissists, who at once envy and fear the quiet confidence and mellowness of violists, who with their “off-beat” philosophy and seriously sexy tone, cause the screechy little fiddle-bitches to stand out in stark contrast like Trumpers railing against free speech in neon lime green MAGA tee-shirts.

Ho, hum.

cool
Tall and tan, and young and lovely,
The girl who plays viola goes walking,
And when she passes, each one she passes goes, “Ahhhh...”

Sexy, sultry, and mysterious. No wonder violinists are freaking out!

And here we have a young artist performing an impression of a viola in action:

The instrument nobody loved – except Mozart

Mozart couldn't be Worng!

As an infant Mozart cried when he heard violins,but he loved the horn!
TAT
“Why don’t violists play hide and seek? Because no one would look for them.”

“What’s the difference between a violist and a dog? A dog is able to stop scratching.”

These and 10 other snarky comments come from a Classic FM article about the much-maligned middle child of the string section, which hasn’t gotten the respect other instruments receive.

Maybe that’s because violas often go unheard by audiences. They have special difficulties projecting over a full orchestra, so no top-tier composer ever wrote a solo concerto for them. Hector Berlioz’ “Harold in Italy” comes closest; it’s a symphony with solo viola parts.

But Mozart loved the viola. His Sinfonia Concertante for Violin and Viola remains the most beautiful piece written – well, half-written – for that instrument. The father-son team of David and Igor Oistrakh made my favorite recording, though Charlotte Symphony Orchestra music director Christopher Warren-Green also did a fine one; he played violin with his London Chamber Orchestra and violist Roger Chase.



Who would think a horn should be included in a string quintet, with two violas, a single violin and a cello? Why would a horn also be included in a woodwind quintet?

Here is Katy Woolley, a British horn wunderkind, who took over principal horn in Philadelphia!

TAT
But that's not just any horn, That's a French Horn. They have a very lovely sound. Kind of like the cello of the horn section.

BTW, there is a very interesting analysis of The Girl From Ipanema on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFWCbGzxofU
Very interesting stuff on This Week In Virology (on YouTube) I saw today. One was from a doctor who leads a medical group in New York. He said pediatricians are reporting a lot of cases of asymptomatic or mild Covid-19 confirmed by antibody testing in which the young person reports they can no longer play a sport such as soccer or Lacrosse that requires sustained cardiac output. Other reports include kids who can't concentrate in class or suffer from a generalized "brain fog". These are Long Covid symptoms.

The other was from a researcher who said everything we "know" about kids and Covid is wrong: We mostly test people with symptoms, and kids usually have asymptomatic cases, so they are very badly under-tested. When they look at antibody surveys of all ages, they find kids actually do get it at about the same rate as adults! The other thing is kids usually shed virus for only about two days, so sub-sampling in schools can easily miss kid's infections. They said in Korea they discovered kids role in the spread by contact tracing: Kids would often be the missing link in a contact thread.

So the attempt to get all the schools reopened in person before everybody gets vaccinated makes it almost a sure thing the parents and siblings of those school kids will be infected. And any grandparents living in their home may die. Some significant percentages of those adults and kids will suffer long-term health problems from Long Covid.
It’s strange that many anti-vaxxers are also avid Trumpers who praise him for the “miracle” warp speed at which he created the vaccines, and never mention that he and Mel got their shots in January, in spite of the natural immunity they already enjoyed.

So much delusion and mental illness in the world. I wish that pandemic could be brought under control. But I reckon doing it would be communism and multiple violations of the 1st and 2nd Amendments, and all of our freedoms lost to the Deep State the Pedo Government. Of the Pedos, by the Pedos, and for the Pedos... anyone who ever had their picture taken with Jeffrey Epstein is a child sex trafficker (except Donald Tha Great, of course).
I honestly think hundreds of the most deluded Trumpers getting convicted and going to federal prison for their little insurrection is going to make that political stance a lot less popular over the next year. I also think some members of congress are going to get booted for their actions supporting the insurrection. It's one thing to vote for insurrection. It's another to give insurrectionists reconnaissance tours of the capital.

So I think lots of folks are going to back their insanity down to being a private thing. I see the feds are going after The Proud Boys in a big way. Hopefully, some neo-nazis and KKK-types will crawl back under their rocks.

As for anti-vaxxers, those folks are going to have to deal with their families deaths, their disabled kids, their guilt over killing Grandma, their long Covid symptoms, etc. for the rest of their lives. The rest of us will help pay for the kids medical costs. And then they all burn in hell for eternity when they die. What's not to like? Sounds reasonable to me.
Its interesting. Now that Moderna is testing children, and everything seems to be working and fine, this will also mean that either children get their shots or children don't get into school. This, I expect, will first cause them to loudly whine, a lot, and then knuckle under so the schools can go back to raising, and feeding, their children whilst they get jobs and go back to work.
Something like that is already happening with people who refuse to wear masks. In Texas, where their governor killed the state mask mandate, he said businesses can keep on enforcing their own rules. People are getting arrested for trespassing when they refuse to mask up or leave in stores that require it. Once enough people get their immunizations, I suspect we will get "immune passports" that let you go without a mask (if you are dumb enough to do that!) Then I bet it's going to get really limiting to refuse masks and vaccination. It will be volunteering to be a second-class citizen. Like having to find a "Colored" bathroom in the old South.
Kinda like shaming the dummies?
Could be much worse, like when all the supermarkets in town require masks and you have to drive 50 miles for your shopping at a little independent market that is run by an anti-masker.
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Could be much worse, like when all the supermarkets in town require masks and you have to drive 50 miles for your shopping at a little independent market that is run by an anti-masker.

Which puts the people driving those 50 miles to avoid supporting the Walton family’s goal to drive Americans into poverty in a conundrum: Shop at WalMart and support the exploitation of minimum wage workers and the creation of food desserts, or risk your life by shopping in an independent store run by a pandemic ignoramus.
OR they are just sticking together! I have noticed that they seem to have an answer for just about everything!
Idaho State Legislature shut down for two weeks due to a Covid outbreak...


I get my first dose next SA 03/27 @ 4PM. Not sure who the manufacturer is....didn't list it. Hmm

...but because it's the "first dose" - it's going to be Pfizer or Moderna. Moderna seems to be the dominate vaccine here in the Puget Sound. Everyone I know who has been vaxxed has had the Moderna vax.

My preference is for the Pfizer vaxx, but I'll take what I can get.

smile
I don't think the two mRNA vaccines have any significant difference. That's the same day my wife gets her second Pfizer vaccination. I'm Moderna. Neither was a problem. Time between doses does not seem to matter much, as long as it's three weeks or over. Mine was 5 weeks.


Question for P_I_A:

We know that non-vaxxed people can be asymptomatic and spread COVID. We know that being vaxxed is no guarantee not to get COVID - but the thinking is: If the vaxxed person does get COVID, it won't be as severe - no hospitalization and no death

My question: Can a vaxxed person get COVID and be asymptomatic? (I am going to guess yes)

I personally think reinfection happens all the time. No matter if you are vaccinated or had the disease, if you are exposed to a heavy viral load, it's going to be a while before your immune system manages to kill all the virions. When you are exposed to a small load, that infection time may be minutes. Immunologists talk about a "sterilizing vaccine", which means the vaccine is so effective that any virus is immediately attacked and you never do shed enough to pass it to anybody else. The Covid vaccines are not that effective. Very few vaccines are.

You have to be shedding enough virions to infect anyone else. When they test people by PCR, they talk about CT counts which are the number of cycles they need to double the RNA from the swab before it can be detected. If they have to double it 40 times to get a positive, you will infect nobody. People with a full blown infection have CTs of 10 or less. That's billions of virions they are shedding.

So I think a vaxxed person CAN be infected, but very likely will be asymptomatic and not contagious. That's why CDC said vaccinated people can socialize with other vaccinated people without masks. But I would not want to have close contact with anybody unvaccinated without masks: You could get enough of a viral load to carry it home to some unvaccinated person and make them sick or even dead, even though you remain asymptomatic.

On a different topic: When Long Covid victims get vaccinated, about half of them feel a lot better after about two weeks. There are currently two theories as to what's going on.

1) Their immune system is in disregulation. When they get the vaccine, their immune system goes into "war mode" and then after all the vaccine antigen is dismantled, it goes into the normal "system reset" mode. Kind of like unplugging your computer and then plugging it back in when it is hung up.

2) Corona viruses are gut residents in bats, and cause no illness. In humans with Long Covid, the viruses remain infecting the gut for the long term without stimulating a full blown immune response. (We tolerate a lot of foreign antigens in our guts.) The vaccination makes enough antibodies to wipe out those gut viruses.

There is some evidence for both theories! We know Long Covid victims have disregulated immune systems. And researchers found viral RNA in fecal swabs long after normal nasal swab tests went negative.
I consider most problems over the vaccines are because there is really no history for them so they really don't know a pile of things. Those are things like really not knowing how long a vaccination lasts. The other thing is Covid itself which they are also learning new stuff, seemingly every day.

The problem, I think, is that there are those who expect the medical/science community to have all the answers and they don't. So, every now and then, they change their suggestions and this makes everybody very upset. I also believe there are a LOT of people working, very hard, to learn all they can, as fast as they can, and should not be blamed every time they learn a new thing and pass it on.

I always find it interesting that those who get upset when something new comes up, and instructions change a bit, expect perfection but tend, I think, not to be all that perfect themselves.
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I personally think reinfection happens all the time. No matter if you are vaccinated or had the disease, if you are exposed to a heavy viral load, it's going to be a while before your immune system manages to kill all the virions. When you are exposed to a small load, that infection time may be minutes. Immunologists talk about a "sterilizing vaccine", which means the vaccine is so effective that any virus is immediately attacked and you never do shed enough to pass it to anybody else. The Covid vaccines are not that effective. Very few vaccines are.

You have to be shedding enough virions to infect anyone else. When they test people by PCR, they talk about CT counts which are the number of cycles they need to double the RNA from the swab before it can be detected. If they have to double it 40 times to get a positive, you will infect nobody. People with a full blown infection have CTs of 10 or less. That's billions of virions they are shedding.

So I think a vaxxed person CAN be infected, but very likely will be asymptomatic and not contagious. That's why CDC said vaccinated people can socialize with other vaccinated people without masks. But I would not want to have close contact with anybody unvaccinated without masks: You could get enough of a viral load to carry it home to some unvaccinated person and make them sick or even dead, even though you remain asymptomatic.

On a different topic: When Long Covid victims get vaccinated, about half of them feel a lot better after about two weeks. There are currently two theories as to what's going on.

1) Their immune system is in disregulation. When they get the vaccine, their immune system goes into "war mode" and then after all the vaccine antigen is dismantled, it goes into the normal "system reset" mode. Kind of like unplugging your computer and then plugging it back in when it is hung up.

2) Corona viruses are gut residents in bats, and cause no illness. In humans with Long Covid, the viruses remain infecting the gut for the long term without stimulating a full blown immune response. (We tolerate a lot of foreign antigens in our guts.) The vaccination makes enough antibodies to wipe out those gut viruses.

There is some evidence for both theories! We know Long Covid victims have disregulated immune systems. And researchers found viral RNA in fecal swabs long after normal nasal swab tests went negative.

Thanks for your reply P_I_A smile
One thing they seemed have learned for sure is that you can get infected even if you have already had Covid and that getting a shot, after you have had Covid, can help your recovery after you have survived Covid.

Good things to know, I think (and really good reasons for getting a shot!)
You are entirely welcome, sir!

One thing I have noticed is that the people who get the most upset with evolving scientific advice, are pretty much ignoring all the scientific advice anyway. I worked in medical research decades ago, and learned very quickly that each little new fact is hard earned. And usually is not the whole picture. Science is like a sailboat tacking upwind. It does get there, but it only does that by zig-zagging toward the distant goal.
I wonder what happens if they give you a vaccine shot when you are found to be infected.
Plenty of people who are infected have received vaccinations, since so many infections are asymptomatic. It's inevitable, because they don't test people before their vaccine appointment. It's not adding to the amount of virus you have. It does increase the amount of viral antigen you have, so it gives you a stronger immune response. Covid-19 induces a weak immune response in some people, at least in terms of antibody production. That's probably because they cleared the viral antigen before the adaptive immune system could get involved. It is a bit slower than the innate immune system. Like pretty much everything the body does, there are negative feedback signals so the process can be shut down when it's no longer needed. If there is no viral antigen when antibody production is ready, no antibodies. Production of antigen-specific antibodies is called "seroconversion", and lots of SARS-COV2 infected people are "sero-negative". Including me.
I think what you are suggesting is that, overall, giving an infected a shot is a good thing. I wonder, if you are tested and find that you are infected can you get a vaccine regardless of age, health, etc?
I was talking to my sister yesterday. Seems that her husband got Covid just before pandemic was called and was sicker than a dog. Its now been over a year and he has had his shots and is a complete mess (the shot didn't help). He can't sleep, breath, exercise and wants to sleep all the time. She forces him to go play golf. My sister has not had Covid and has also had her shots. Its kinda interesting. She used to be a great cook and now she has lost her taste buds which was around the same time that her husband got sick. I have wondered if she actually had Covid and just wasn't all that bad, except for the taste bud thing.

Just thought I would throw this one in.


Got the first vaxx stick. It was Moderna. They did have Pfizer, but it was only for the people getting their 2nd stick. There was a notice that if you got a Pfizer 1st stick to schedule the second in 21 days, and if your 1st stick is Moderna to schedule in 28 days for the 2nd stick.
Its odd. Everybody seems to be getting their shots slightly differently. We got ours back in January (Moderna) We got in line, we were asked pertinent questions and then went in where there were folks directing us to where to go next (we had to answer more question, then directed to smaller lines to get the shot, etc), after we got our shots we had to sit down for about 15 minutes to make sure we wouldn't have a problem and then went to a table to filled out the little card and sent us on our way. Oh, the little card also had the date, and time, for us to return to get the last shot. (if there was a problem with the date or time of the second shot we got to choose another date and time). It was, in other words, pretty simple. The entire operation was run by volunteers. My wife is deathly afraid of needles (have no idea why). She voiced her problem and she was told they would get her a "shot buddy" to hold help her. That consisted of holding her hand and telling her to look into the eyes of the 'buddy". She didn't even feel the shot and I got a LOT of humor out of the whole thing (who ever even heard of a "shot buddy"?). Our town has almost 30% of the town vaccinated.

As an aside I should also mention that one of our Indian bands has access to a lot of vaccine for some reason. They are now giving anybody who wants a vaccination, regardless of where they fall in who should go first. This is happening in Sequim, a small town about 15 miles away. They don't care where you are from, who you are, or anything else. If you want a shot go on down!
If you are infected, and it's early, you should be able to get an antibody cocktail now. This looks like it really helps, and it gives you about three months of passive immunity. It's not cheap, but the government pays for it, so it should be free for patients.

It's FAR FAR cheaper than them paying for a month in the ICU.

And yes, your sister had Covid-19. Loss of taste and smell is a very common symptom. And it's almost impossible to live with somebody infected and not get infected yourself. That includes kids, parents, and grandparents.
What you describe is very common. The mRNA vaccines were Phase 3 tested with three week and four week intervals, so that's how they are being delivered. Not to say that other intervals would not work fine, as long as they were at least three weeks. In the UK, I think they are giving Pfizer 2nd shots at 12 weeks just to get more folks partial protection quicker. Mine was at 5 weeks because they ran out of Moderna locally from the Big Freeze in Texas.

Nobody "feels it". Everybody has to wait 15 minutes, and gets a little card. Don't lose it: It's good for a year of free donuts at Krispy Kreme!
I’m scheduled for Pfizer poke #2 Wednesday morning. But we don’t have a Krispy Kreme within the state, as far as I know. Probably racism of some kind, causing donut suppression.
My wife had her Pfizer #2 on Saturday. No side effects, but she does feel a little tired. That is not unusual for her, though.
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
...Everybody has to wait 15 minutes, and gets a little card. Don't lose it: It's good for a year of free donuts at Krispy Kreme!

Oh goodie!!! Krispy Kreme is contributing to Type II diabetes in Americans. smile
You get just one free donut per day. Of course, if you buy a dozen every time you go in for your free one, that's on you. I'm lucky: I moved 45 miles away from San Diego's KK several years ago. Two of our rentals we used to live in are within 3 miles.
It might be of passing interest that Moderna had their vaccine ready to go two days after China released the data on Covid. I was reading the new Reason magazine and they really worked over the Covid thing as well as the FDA. Pretty interesting.
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