Capitol Hill Blue
Posted By: jgw lamda variant - 07/17/21 07:12 PM
Got a new variant - thought I would post it:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...ding-in-south-america-heres-what-we-know

Oh, while we have been sending vaccinations over to Africa China and Russia have been sending their vaccinations to Latin America (I suspect we got it backwards by not protecting Latin America). Anyway, the russian and Chinese Vaccine doesn't seem to work with the Lamda Variant. There are not a whole lot of tests to really know about it yet)
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: lamda variant - 07/17/21 08:31 PM
A gift that anti-vaxxers should be very afraid of.
Posted By: Greger Re: lamda variant - 07/17/21 11:31 PM
Good to see you, Jeffery!

The Delta variant is currently eating its way through the ranks of republicans and I have zero sympathy for them. Newer deadlier strains are still unlikely to change their minds. I have several friends currently ill with it, some vaccinated, some not.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: lamda variant - 07/18/21 04:52 PM
After over a year and a half and almost dying from this, and now drowning in a tsunami of well funded, organized and coordinated deliberate disinfo, the clapping for death at CPAC was pretty much my last straw.
No sympathy here remains.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: lamda variant - 07/18/21 05:29 PM
re: CPAC

Conservatism is a dying political and moral philosophy. Politically because they have no goals, plans, or platform other than to make rich white males even richer.

Morally, because conservatives support lies detrimental to our democracy (insurrectionists framed as tourists out on a stroll), health and welfare to others (anti-vaxxers), plus their rabid racism and bigotry are just such turn-offs in the 2020s.

smile
Posted By: jgw Re: lamda variant - 07/18/21 06:05 PM
The so-called Trumpite Conservatives are leaving themselves wide open to attack by the Democrats. One would think that they would sweep through the next election winning each and every vote. My hope is that might happen. Unfortunately the emphasis is on the 'might' part as the Dems have a really bad habit of running their mouths and screwing it all up. When that happens, however, they rarely try and blame somebody else!

I think the hint might be if they somehow manage to not have a message or start a big fight with each other.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: lamda variant - 07/18/21 07:20 PM
Originally Posted by pdx rick
re: CPAC

Conservatism is a dying political and moral philosophy. Politically because they have no goals, plans, or platform other than to make rich white males even richer.

Morally, because conservatives support lies detrimental to our democracy (insurrectionists framed as tourists out on a stroll), health and welfare to others (anti-vaxxers), plus their rabid racism and bigotry are just such turn-offs in the 2020s.

smile

It may indeed be dying however it's still a wealthy enough slice to engineer a whole lot more death before it disintegrates.
Whoever talked about a class action suit was thinking in the right direction, because the kind of nonsense we're seeing right now couldn't be possible without a lot of help from the CPAC/anti-vax media powerhouse networks and all the wealthy anti-vax donors who profit off this disaster.

Did you know that R.F. Kennedy Jr. is now suing DailyKOS?

What's next, OAN suing Dr. Fauci?
Enough.
Posted By: logtroll Re: lamda variant - 07/20/21 12:17 PM
Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
No sympathy here remains.
Any ‘long haul’ symptoms remaining? Besides the antisympatheticism, that is?
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: lamda variant - 07/21/21 11:34 AM
Originally Posted by logtroll
Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
No sympathy here remains.
Any ‘long haul’ symptoms remaining? Besides the antisympatheticism, that is?

Yeah.
All of them.
If it's on the list of long haul symptoms, I've got them.
I'm pretty much feeling like a zombie.
Posted By: logtroll Re: lamda variant - 07/21/21 12:58 PM
I'm very sorry to hear that.

I wonder why we haven't started charging anti-vaxxers who get Covid, and then infect others, with reckless endangerment? That might help to persuade the morons who think that risking the virus is a purely personal choice.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: lamda variant - 07/23/21 07:04 AM
If you never got vaccinated, about half of Long Haulers say they are much improved by getting one SARS-COV2 vaccination. I think it sort of resets their immune system to have the foreign antigen to fight. Then once it's gone, their immune system settles down. There are a lot of doctors and specialty clinics that treat Long Haulers now.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: lamda variant - 07/23/21 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
If you never got vaccinated, about half of Long Haulers say they are much improved by getting one SARS-COV2 vaccination. I think it sort of resets their immune system to have the foreign antigen to fight. Then once it's gone, their immune system settles down. There are a lot of doctors and specialty clinics that treat Long Haulers now.

Los Angeles-based Cedars-Sinai

Crap...
Okay, I'll do the horrible Whittier to West LA jaunt a couple of times a month if they can help me.
Was sorta kinda hoping AltaMed had something a lot closer.
Posted By: jgw Re: lamda variant - 08/02/21 07:12 PM
I thought I would update the lambda variant. They are now saying that its as bad as the current bad but also may be resistant to current vaccines. For some reason this is being ignored by the media but I have faith.

Here is a quote: "The lambda variant carries a number of mutations with suspected implications, such as potential increased transmissibility or possible increased resistance to neutralizing antibodies, the WHO says. But it says the full extent of those mutations' impact isn't yet well understood and will need further study."

This is what they have been saying all along. We are also being told its not to pervasive. If history means anything give it another week or two and then we will have one that is even more likely to infect that the current one and may also be able to mess with our current crop of vaccines. Betcha boosters are going to become VERY popular soon!

Given that we seem to be getting a new, more powerful, more lethal variant every month or so and this will continue until we all get vaccinated then, when that happens I can see a brand new vaccine also coming on the market as well. Given that each new variant seems more catchable, and more deadly, one can only image what we are going to end up with.

We, basically, need to give full thanks to the anti-vaxxers who have been working, most diligently, to make sure that we will continue to be dealing with variants into the future until they manage to have killed themselves off.

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.c...hots-for-older-americans-might-be-needed
Google "lamda variant", goto tools and set the time to last 24 hours for latest and greatest.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: lamda variant - 08/02/21 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by jgw
I thought I would update the lambda variant. They are now saying that its as bad as the current bad but also may be resistant to current vaccines. For some reason this is being ignored by the media but I have faith.

Here is a quote: "The lambda variant carries a number of mutations with suspected implications, such as potential increased transmissibility or possible increased resistance to neutralizing antibodies, the WHO says. But it says the full extent of those mutations' impact isn't yet well understood and will need further study."

Much of this appears to be based on a study of a group that took the Chinese SinoVac "CoronaVac" which is an inactivated virus vaccine that uses tech similar to the polio vaccine.

SinoVac
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: lamda variant - 08/03/21 06:44 PM
Yes, most vaccines are very specific for a particular original or variant just because of the way the generated antibodies fit on the virus. But any of them activate your T cells, and T cell immunity is much broader. T cells respond to up to 52 epitopes (amino acid sequences that the immune system can "see") on the virus. To evade that response, so much would have to change the virus would not function as SARS-COV2 any more. A recent paper studying people with a genetic condition that prevents them from making any antibodies, found that they had the same clinical response to SARS-COV2 infection as people who do make antibodies. This suggests that antibodies play no part in your body's fight against an initial infection!

We already know that you have to wait a few weeks at least to measure IgM, and even longer to measure any IgG antibodies. Your T-cells have already inactivated all the "live" virus by this time. It looks like antibodies just prevent reinfection for a while. It's perfectly normal for antibody levels to fade. That makes reinfection more likely, but you still have memory T cells and B cells in your lymph nodes and bone marrow that react quickly, And even if it's Delta, Lambda, or Omega, they make a new antibody that is specific for that variant. Antibody levels just tell you your T and B cell chain is working.

New variants seem like they are more contagious because they have slightly better fitness than previous variants. That makes a difference in large populations (like a billion billion virions), but makes almost no difference to individual human hosts. Every transmission event still requires some infected person coughing, shouting, singing, etc. in somebody else's face. We get surges in areas that have low vaccination rates, where the unvaxxed mask refusers get together in crowds. That's EXACTLY what the original virus did! All the media claims that each variant is deadlier than the last is just the result of wider infections. More people end up in the hospital because more people are infected. But that does sell more papers!

A study of Delta variant infected patients found more virus RNA being shed. Seems like a dangerous new variant, doesn't it? The problem is they also ran virus antigen testing on them that reacts to the whole virus nucleocapsid protein, and they found much lower levels than they expected. This means their PCR tests were just showing a lot of virus RNA fragments, but a normal amount of virus being shed. That suggests that Delta is actually LESS fit, since it's replication process spews a lot of bits of virus RNA before it is encapsulated into complete (and infective) virus.
Posted By: logtroll Re: lamda variant - 08/05/21 12:09 PM
Originally Posted by logtroll
I wonder why we haven't started charging anti-vaxxers who get Covid, and then infect others, with reckless endangerment? That might help to persuade the morons who think that risking the virus is a purely personal choice.
Thought I’d bring this up again. I just saw another article about DeSantis’ stance - it seems the core of his arguments is that mask mandates violate personal rights (he’s proactively making the same case for vaccines, even though there aren’t any mandates yet). A number of people I know who are resisting masks and vaccines aren’t that way due to ideology; they generally go to the place of, “I don’t want to put that scary stuff in my body.” But when pressed they use the inviolable personal rights argument.

The problem with that is people often don’t see that there is a fuzzy boundary between rights and responsibilities - you don’t have the freedom to infringe on the rights of others. Sometimes crossing that boundary involves several steps though a murky transition from freedom to infringement, like what’s wrong with driving a little drunk if you don’t get in a wreck? If you wreck your own car, what business is it of anyone else?

Of course, if you involve someone else in your car wreck and cause damage to their property or to their body, you will be held responsible. That transition isn’t all that murky, and as a result we have laws against driving drunk that are intended to prevent people from indulging in a behavior that has a high probability of stepping on the rights of others.

The analogy between drunk driving and Covid is weak when looked at from the point of view of using masks and vaccines to protect yourself from catching the virus. But it is strong when viewed from the angle of responsibility to not infect others through a failure to take adequate precautions in the face of a known danger.

The counter argument to the anti-mask/vaccine crowd is to make it clear that if a person willfully refuses to take precautions against transmitting the disease, they will be held responsible for any damage caused to others. That could include medical bills, compensation for lost income, disability support, or even manslaughter.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: lamda variant - 08/05/21 12:48 PM
Originally Posted by logtroll
[quote=logtroll] Sometimes crossing that boundary involves several steps though a murky transition from freedom to infringement, like what’s wrong with driving a little drunk if you don’t get in a wreck? If you wreck your own car, what business is it of anyone else?

Of course, if you involve someone else in your car wreck and cause damage to their property or to their body, you will be held responsible. That transition isn’t all that murky, and as a result we have laws against driving drunk that are intended to prevent people from indulging in a behavior that has a high probability of stepping on the rights of others.

The analogy between drunk driving and Covid is weak when looked at from the point of view of using masks and vaccines to protect yourself from catching the virus. But it is strong when viewed from the responsibility angle to not infect others through a failure to take adequate precautions in the face of a known danger.

The counter argument to the anti-mask/vaccine crowd is to make it clear that if a person willfully refuses to take precautions against transmitting the disease, they will be held responsible for any damage caused to others. That could include medical bills, compensation for lost income, disability support, or even manslaughter.

All great points and this thread is but one of innumerable thousands like it, both online, and in person, that have been argued to death.
But it appears that all of it fails because there's one more argument that deniers feel "trumps" the rest:

FDA approval


Yup, the big appro, the big magilla, the golden meatball...

"You can't force me to take this, it's experimental, it's not proven, the FDA hasn't even granted it full approval!"

Yes, I realize you covered "scary" but I press for specifics when people say it's not FDA approved.
Pot isn't FDA approved but we put that in our bodies, and neither were the Tide Pods you ate last year when that became a TikTok challenge...did you stop to consider if you were putting a non-approved and NON-EDIBLE substance in your body?

I suppose this would be a good spot to insert a millennial doing one of those "duck lips" selfies, but you get the point.

FDA appro is maybe two to three weeks away, and when that shoe drops, a lot of things change.
Suddenly there's a whole lot more law and order on the side of businesses and government entities that wish to pass mandates.
I realize NY already did it and LA is about to follow, but both cities are at risk of lawsuits that challenge those vaccine mandates, until the FDA smashes those challenges with full appro.

It will be interesting to see just how far the needle moves when the folks hanging their hat on FDA appro decide to finally take the shot.
After that, all that's left are the historically loony CT nuts (on both left and right) and victims of Vlad's army of domestic anti-vax influencers.

If Joe is smart, he's already putting the finishing touches on a spate of "IT'S FDA APPROVED!!" public service announcements so they can hit the hopper the moment FDA issues the ruling.

And guess who else is listening with eager anticipation?
All those insurers. Once this stuff gets the full FDA imprimatur, everything changes on that playing field, too.
Posted By: logtroll Re: lamda variant - 08/06/21 12:22 AM
Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
All great points and this thread is but one of innumerable thousands like it, both online, and in person, that have been argued to death.
FDA approval will be an interesting development to watch.

Actually, I haven't seen the "reckless endangerment" tactic discussed or argued anywhere. I don't even think that it needs to be argued in order for it to be used - the argument would be in court. It doesn't require any mandates or new laws - I think it could be the basis for real lawsuits now.

If anti-maskers/vaxxers thought they could be sued for damages from willful negligence resulting in infecting others, many of them might take the easy way and just get the jab.
Posted By: logtroll Re: lamda variant - 08/07/21 06:34 PM
Looks like fear is the great vaccine motivator...
Quote
One answer seems clear in the polling and in the real world: fear. Fear of getting the virus and of losing freedoms looks like it motivates people to get vaccinated.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: lamda variant - 08/07/21 07:01 PM
Just knowing your odds should tell people what is smart versus what is bone-headed:

Your odds of dying from a new unvaccinated covid-19 case: 20,000 per million

Your odds of dying from a Covid-19 case after full vaccination: 1 per million

I find it amazing anybody is willing to take that kind of risk, for ANY reason. Maybe this is Natural Selection, if it gets rid of people so stupid they don't understand 20,000 is much larger than 1.
Posted By: logtroll Re: lamda variant - 08/07/21 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
Just knowing your odds should tell people what is smart versus what is bone-headed:
You know, I wasn't going to say it, but there you go again, thinking that most people care about facts!

Posted By: logtroll Re: lamda variant - 08/08/21 12:37 PM
To paraphrase Carl Jung; "Thinking is really hard, so the smart people jump directly to judging!"
Posted By: jgw Re: lamda variant - 08/08/21 06:38 PM
The simple fact is that we are in a pandemic for the anti-vaccer. If you are not vaccinated then your chances of being in a hospital is pretty good. All the rest is bla, bla, bla People love to feel bad about people dying. However, if its not part of a family or a friend who really cares? What we have here are thousands getting bad covid and many of those actually dying and we know, deep down, that is shameful and sad. However, on the other side are those that have been vaccinated, do not understand why everybody should have done the sale thing and find it very difficult to get too upset with folks who have been told what to do, suggested what to do, been bribed to do the right thing, and begged, by virtually any and all leaders, to take the damned vaccine!

I have decided that I am guilty of all of the above, as one who has been vaccinated. My only real concern is when they are going to come up with a booster for those of us who have now been vaccinated for over 6 months and are old. Given what experts are saying its time, right now! Sorry, my greed for my life is on a kindofa straight track.

I am also told, as one of the vaccinated, that I am somehow responsible for the anti-vaxxers and need to wear a mask all the time to save their collective butts. That is, as far as I can tell what its all about! The vaccinated are now responsible for the anti-vaccers. Sorry, not buying that one. They seem determined to not only make sure they get covid but also that their children get it and be killed by it! I feel bad about that but they are the responsible ones, not those of us that have been vaccinated!

I also wonder if the governor of Florida is actually going to send his kids into schools without a mask.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: lamda variant - 08/08/21 07:21 PM
Well, the ultimate penalty for stupidity has always been death. That is human nature. In some ways, this cull benefits those who remain. For example:

Newsmax Host Dead from Covid-19

Quote
Former Newsmax host and right-wing Florida radio commentator Dick Farrel — who mocked vaccines, the “scamdemic” and “lying freak” Dr. Anthony Fauci — has died of COVID-19.

So are we better off with this toxic influencer dead? Even if he did text friends from his deathbed to get vaccinated, presumably because he couldn't speak with the breathing tube in his throat. Dead Republican voters are one thing, but mass media jerks like this Dick may deserve it. When the data about the relative risk of being vaccinated or not came out a few months ago, I stopped fearing or being angry at anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers. My feelings changed to pity. But a few of them may just be asking for it.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: lamda variant - 08/21/21 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
Well, the ultimate penalty for stupidity has always been death. That is human nature. In some ways, this cull benefits those who remain. For example:

Newsmax Host Dead from Covid-19

Quote
Former Newsmax host and right-wing Florida radio commentator Dick Farrel — who mocked vaccines, the “scamdemic” and “lying freak” Dr. Anthony Fauci — has died of COVID-19.

So are we better off with this toxic influencer dead? Even if he did text friends from his deathbed to get vaccinated, presumably because he couldn't speak with the breathing tube in his throat. Dead Republican voters are one thing, but mass media jerks like this Dick may deserve it. When the data about the relative risk of being vaccinated or not came out a few months ago, I stopped fearing or being angry at anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers. My feelings changed to pity. But a few of them may just be asking for it.

I should have bookmarked it but yesterday I read about a guy whose mother spent two months in ICU and finally passed away from COVID, then HE got COVID, and HE ALSO spent time in ICU, he recovered...and he STILL won't get the vaccine.
And then there's Right Said Fred, the "I'm too sexy for my shirt" guy, caught COVID, says "It wasn't so bad, not getting the shots".

Yeah, I'd file those under "Asking for it".
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: lamda variant - 08/21/21 07:59 PM
Pondering, I am with you when you say that your feelings (my anger) have turned to pity. It’s the only time I’ve ever wanted to use the phrase “pity the fool.”

Oops. I jumped the gun. There’s still some anger mixed in with the pity, or that other phrase (“you dumb sumb**ch”] wouldn’t be coming to mind so often.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: lamda variant - 08/21/21 11:15 PM
Quote
he STILL won't get the vaccine
It's not so important as long as he had Covid-19 and then recovered. That's like getting a really dangerous vaccine. He has some immunity. His antibodies may not be as high as if he did get a vaccine now, but his T and B cells are primed. Researchers have found that natural infection followed months later by one vaccination gives you really high antibody levels, but still it's silly to require people to get vaccinated after they already had Covid-19. That should be a reasonable medical exemption.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: lamda variant - 08/22/21 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
Quote
he STILL won't get the vaccine
It's not so important as long as he had Covid-19 and then recovered. That's like getting a really dangerous vaccine. He has some immunity. His antibodies may not be as high as if he did get a vaccine now, but his T and B cells are primed. Researchers have found that natural infection followed months later by one vaccination gives you really high antibody levels, but still it's silly to require people to get vaccinated after they already had Covid-19. That should be a reasonable medical exemption.

Disagree because Leon Russell's sister-in-law passed away because she caught COVID, recovered and then got hit again, and this time it took her out. Obviously it was a variant and her natural antibodies weren't as ready as one might think.
The vaccines are safe and I'd like to think it's cheap insurance.
I know one thing, I am going for the third booster ASAP and so is Karen.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: lamda variant - 08/23/21 01:17 AM
Originally Posted by pondering_it_all

Conservative Radio Host Phil Valentine dies of COVID

Phil railed against wearing masks and getting vaxxed. Now he can enjoy some pizza with Herman Cain. coffee
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: lamda variant - 08/23/21 01:24 AM
It's all a crap shoot, with different odds for different points. "Extremely rare" does you no good if you are the poor bastard who dies or gets seriously ill. In my posts, I'm talking about the whole population. But if you are immunocompromised, by all means get a booster. Researchers have found that transplant patients on immunosuppressive drugs who failed to mount any antibodies from a second vaccination had a mixed response to a third: Some did make antibodies, some did not. It probably depends on your CD4 T-cell level. It does not require a normal level (from personal experience), but it does take some level.

My CD4s were so low, my doc told me to stop taking an MS drug around December 2019. By vaccination time, they had recovered enough to make plenty of antibodies. Your mileage may vary. You can check your antibody levels by getting a spike antibody test. I would consider getting one before the booster, and then another a couple of months later to see what the booster did. Less than $100 each at Quest Diagnostics. In any event, another booster is extremely unlikely to harm you.
Posted By: jgw Re: lamda variant - 08/25/21 06:39 PM
The worst of the anti-vaxxers are the parents of the children they want to send to school without a mask. They are, basically, putting their children at risk of dying. I have watched a couple of them, on TV, say that they just didn't know (after they lost a child). They were upset and all of that. These are people who are living in another reality and they now get to pay the price. I am really not sure that their children should be taken away from them before they get them killed. I also watched a number of them assault cars with doctors in them because they supported masking school kids.

Its really hard to work up sympathy for these folks. They won't trust vaccines but they seem to be delighted to take any experimental thing the hospital might have.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: lamda variant - 08/25/21 07:26 PM
Quote
They won't trust vaccines but they seem to be delighted to take any experimental thing the hospital might have.

Hospital? You mean the feed store, or some scammer on the internet. There were a lot of people who drank bleach after Trump suggested it! There are still snake-oil salesmen popping up on Craig's List, the internet, or Right Wing media trying to sell bleach or silver-based "Covid Remedies".

The only good thing about those people sending their kids to school without masks, is that the kids are at much less risk (but not zero risk) than their parents when they bring the infection home. And the greatest risk is that they will kill a resident unvaccinated grandparent or two.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: lamda variant - 08/26/21 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
Quote
They won't trust vaccines but they seem to be delighted to take any experimental thing the hospital might have.

Hospital? You mean the feed store, or some scammer on the internet. There were a lot of people who drank bleach after Trump suggested it! There are still snake-oil salesmen popping up on Craig's List, the internet, or Right Wing media trying to sell bleach or silver-based "Covid Remedies".

The only good thing about those people sending their kids to school without masks, is that the kids are at much less risk (but not zero risk) than their parents when they bring the infection home. And the greatest risk is that they will kill a resident unvaccinated grandparent or two.

Silly me. Here I was thinking that it might be a crime to peddle dangerous substances that kill people when they ingest them...something about
"Mumble mumble dangerous drugs...mumble mumble protecting the community from dangerous drug peddlers...mumble mumble war on drugs"

Or was that only for drugs that involve partying?
I guess it's unreasonable to demand that we devote all those magnificent DEA resources to tracking down people who peddle spurious and deadly medical remedies for killer plagues.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: lamda variant - 08/26/21 07:29 PM
People do die from accidental opiate and cocaine overdoses, so I guess the DEA should have some oversight for those drug classes. Nobody ever died from a weed overdose. Maybe they got fat from eating too many munchies after they got stoned. As far as ivermectin goes, it actually is being demonized as "horse de-wormer", when it is a legitimate human prescription drug for parasites. The inventor actually got the Nobel Prize for it, and it has been used by billions of people world-wide with an excellent safety record. It's on WHO's essential drug list!

The FDA is actually neutral on it now: They say they don't have enough information on it to recommend for or against it's use for Covid-19. There are a number of drug trials underway.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: lamda variant - 08/28/21 03:39 AM
Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
People do die from accidental opiate and cocaine overdoses, so I guess the DEA should have some oversight for those drug classes. Nobody ever died from a weed overdose. Maybe they got fat from eating too many munchies after they got stoned. As far as ivermectin goes, it actually is being demonized as "horse de-wormer", when it is a legitimate human prescription drug for parasites. The inventor actually got the Nobel Prize for it, and it has been used by billions of people world-wide with an excellent safety record. It's on WHO's essential drug list!

The FDA is actually neutral on it now: They say they don't have enough information on it to recommend for or against it's use for Covid-19. There are a number of drug trials underway.

They're not neutral on folks using the stuff from the animal feed shops.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: lamda variant - 08/30/21 07:08 PM
That's actually more a dose problem than anything else. The horse paste comes in a syringe with markings for 250 to 1250 pounds your horse weighs. The stuff is 1.87% ivermectin and you are supposed to take 200-300 ug/kg. Figuring how much to take involves some math most people have not done since high school (if ever). And according to the FLCCC (the biggest American advocates) the dose is quite important. That's one of their biggest complaints: That some trials have used far too little given only once, or far too much causing toxic effects.
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