Capitol Hill Blue
Posted By: jgw no vaccine folks - 07/30/21 05:53 PM
I went down to San Diego for a few days to visit my sisters. During that time we saw no news. When I got back yesterday we watched the news. We were gone for about 10 days. During that time politics, I think, didn't move a single inch. All the news seemed to be about vaccinations and who either had them or not. The news also showed Biden bravely coaxing the states to pay every non vaccinated 100.00 to get vaccinated (amongst other bribes)

Sorry, I really don't get it. There are any number of vaccinations that children must get to goto school and nobody gets bribed. Everybody got vaccinated for poliio, most get flue shots, etc. In the first you didn't have a choice and in the second you did. It is, I suspect, a review of how we have either progress, or, maybe not. I have had my vaccinations. Nobody bribed me, I simply preferred not to die. Seems to make sense to me. Those refusing to be vaccinated are, as far as I can tell, either Trumpies or dumb as doors. They are all, however, claiming their rights (apparently to make sure that everybody get covid and quite possibly die as soon as possible). I was thinking, perhaps this is natures way to cull the herd, a kindofa giant cleansing of the gene pool. (there is a site for that at darwinawards.com). Since they are determined to kill themselves, and their children family, and anybody else that's handy I would suggest that gov stop paying their hospital bills amongst other non-progressive personal
thoughts. Science is starting to tell us that herd immunity, due to the anti-vaccers, is no longer actually probable. That being the case why in the HELL are we paying for THEIR mistakes?

(I actually saw a nurse, on TV, who was not vaccinated lose her non vaccinated child to covid and her husband who was a serious anti-vaccer dying in hospital of covid who she blamed for none of them getting vaccinated),

My logic, on the stopping the paying of their covid care, is that its REALLY time to stop holding the hands of the mentally infirm who refuse to take care of themselves or give a damn about others. Most of them seem to also be on the political right and would scream in horror at the very thought of socializing and actually fixing your healthcare as that would mean COMMUNISM! So, gov pays their health bills which is flat out socialism. I tend to the thought that some deserve what they desire and saving them from government paid healthcare might actually be exactly what they deserve!

Oh, one last. I watched a doctor point out that anti-vaxxers that are hospitalized have absolutely no qualms about taking any kind of treatment or medicine they are offered in hospital even though such have really not been particularly cleared to any real degree just so they get saved! (I am really sick and tired of the non-vaccinated)

I won't even get into the Biden plan to pay idiots 100.00 to take care of themselves. That one REALLY makes no sense to me!

Just a mean spirited thought..............
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: no vaccine folks - 07/31/21 06:30 PM
A couple of different government agencies tried to estimate what the average human life is worth recently. One came up with 10 million dollars. The other came up with 11 million. (This was for US citizens.) So "let them die" as policy could get rather expensive in terms of GPD and the economy as a whole. $100 is a drop in the bucket compared to what the government is paying to take care of Covid-19 patients. Especially when you consider what will happen in the future with all the folks too sick from Long Covid to work. Considering the percentages of Covid victims (even young folks with asymptomatic cases) who end up with long-term symptoms, that could demote us to Third World status.
Posted By: jgw Re: no vaccine folks - 07/31/21 10:13 PM
If anybody in the hospital for covid which is not vaccinated then the government should not pickup the cost of treatment. Instead the patient pays because of gross stupidity. If the patient dies then his/her asset are seized and sold to pay as much as possible. There is no logical reason for my tax dollars to be spent on somebody who, obviously, distrusts gov, has paid no attention to fact, and probably thinks the moon is made of cheese. I am, in other words, not particularly interested in paying for conscious stupidity.

They are saying that the increase of deaths due to covid have tended to encourage anti-vaxxers to get vaccinated. I wonder how many would get vaccinated if they had to do that rather than sacrifice probably everything they own because they couldn't bring themselves to do the right thing in the first place.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: no vaccine folks - 08/01/21 04:15 PM
Vaxx it or casket you red state Karens.

smile

Texas now has more COVID deaths than New York recorded and Texas is fast closing-in on California's numbers. Florida's unvaccinated young are dying. Imagine keeping policies in place that kill your base just to own the Libs. Hmm
Posted By: pdx rick Re: no vaccine folks - 08/01/21 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by jgw
If anybody in the hospital for covid which is not vaccinated then the government should not pickup the cost of treatment. Instead the patient pays because of gross stupidity.
The now dead patient's estate or loved-ones need to pay. Personal responsibility, amiright, Righties? smile
Posted By: Greger Re: no vaccine folks - 08/01/21 04:23 PM
I have a friend up in Pensacola. A Trumper, but not rabid, he accepted Trump's loss. An evangelical Christian, a zealot. Retired military.

He and his wife were vaccinated. But he didn't take masks seriously or, more likely social distancing. Continuing to shop, eat out, and go to church as if he were completely immune.

He and his wife both caught it. Both were very ill, she was hospitalized for Covid Pneumonia for about 5 days but not intubated.

During all this, I saw a conversation on Facebook where he was pleading his younger sister to get vaccinated and she refused. But she promised to pray about it.

She promised to talk to herself inside her head about it and then claim God would take the Glory of her decision.

Batsh*t M*therF*cking crazy is what they are....

While I'm not in favor of the government seizing their assets or forcing hospitals to turn them away I am gleefully watching them die for Donald Trump.
Posted By: jgw Re: no vaccine folks - 08/01/21 06:20 PM
I don't want them turned away I want them to survive and sacrifice their money to pay for their error. I haven't seen current figures but the ones I have seen have covid in hospitals means a charge of something in excess of 250,000.00! I have now heard doctors report what some covid patients have said; "Rather be dead than get a vaccination", "It was my right to not get vaccinated" are a couple. One reported a covid patient that couldn't breath, they got her breathing and she got up and left because Covid was a fake. Then there are the nurses who refuse to get vaccinated as well.

Makes any sense to me. When you take a look at who is dying the vast majority are the un-vaccinated. That, alone, should send a message and has, to some whilst others continue to await, I guess, either their own passing or the millions that have been vaccinated to die.

The governor of Florida is sending his kids to school un masked. He has also mandated that, basically, people should not mask up. In this situation there are expectations that children will die (because of a political rather than health based decision). That governor may just be sending his children to school to die!

This is waaay beyond my understanding.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: no vaccine folks - 08/01/21 06:40 PM
The problem with asset seizure after a no-vax death, is that most adult's "assets" are their ability to work for another 20 or 30 years. Few people have much saved for retirement or houses without mortgages. If you can spend $60 on vaccines, $100 on the bribe, and say $50 to setup for vaccinating, you come out WAY ahead: $250,000 x 1% dying = $2,500 compared to $210

And that's just immediate expenses. That completely ignores all of their future value if they lived, all the medical care for people who survive, many of whom will end up with Long Covid. Anti-vax will mean a massive economic hit. You would think Republicans would figure this out, supposedly being the Party of fiscal responsibility.
Posted By: jgw Re: no vaccine folks - 08/02/21 06:46 PM
I remain amazed at the covid healthcare being paid for by, I think, the feds. How are they doing that? Its flat out socialism! Nobody is saying a word! Not even the Anti-vaxxers! I wonder if anybody has figured out how to transfer their regular healthcare to whatever care (the current covid payers). I guess the main question is if covid has brought us socialized healthcare. I doubt it but it might be the beginning. This would, I fear, also bring on socialized medicine without any plan which, on the other hand, almost makes sense. Then I started wondering just how much all of this is costing. Here are three sites:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-pandemic-cost-americans-16-trillion/
https://www.fairhealth.org/article/costs-for-a-hospital-stay-for-covid-19
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/putting-the-cost-of-covid-19-in-perspective/

Seems the cost is going to be 16 trillion dollars for the pandemic. Now throw in another 4 trillion for whiz bang fixes and helping hands. I suspect we are rapidly moving towards flat out bankruptcy. I once read a book on that one. Seems a nation cannot go bankrupt, instead their money becomes worthless.

We seem to be adding 20 freaking trillions to the national debt! Actually, we are not but might as well get the ball rolling as we seem to be creating a debt that is greater than any conceived before. Something is gonna have to give on this one. Oh, and the Republicans have stood steadfast. Multi-billionaires need not pay taxes, the 5% can pay minimal taxes and the workers, apparently just pay and pay because the rich can't afford to pay. An example of billionaire really important spending is the guy who owns Amazon and is working on a 500 million dollar yacht.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: no vaccine folks - 08/09/21 09:48 PM
Read again today about colleges and universities being concerned about students (and faculty?) showing up with fake vaccine cards. They should not worry: Besides being a possible crime of fraud, about the only increased risk is to the fakers themselves. Vaccinated people might catch a covid-cold from the unvaxxed, but they could also catch one from vaccinated people. It's the unvaxxed who have much more to lose. At an in-person school and dorm, they are a lot more likely to catch it, and it could be much more serious. If they do go home sick, they might kill their parents or grandparents.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: no vaccine folks - 08/10/21 01:29 AM
Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
Read again today about colleges and universities being concerned about students (and faculty?) showing up with fake vaccine cards. They should not worry: Besides being a possible crime of fraud, about the only increased risk is to the fakers themselves. Vaccinated people might catch a covid-cold from the unvaxxed, but they could also catch one from vaccinated people. It's the unvaxxed who have much more to lose. At an in-person school and dorm, they are a lot more likely to catch it, and it could be much more serious. If they do go home sick, they might kill their parents or grandparents.

It’s a crime that comes with a hefty fine.
The FBI said a fake vaccine card is considered a misuse of a government seal.
That comes with a $5,000 fine or five years in prison.
By the way, Canada is slapping vaxx card fakers with SIXTEEN thousand dollar fines.

Your future employability is also a factor.
I think we should be more like Canada.
Posted By: perotista Re: no vaccine folks - 08/10/21 01:34 AM
Here you go.

Fake COVID-19 Vaccination Cards Worry College Officials

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fake-covid-vaccine-card-college_n_6111435ae4b0be1936de59e8
Posted By: pdx rick Re: no vaccine folks - 08/12/21 04:16 AM
Originally Posted by Greger
While I'm not in favor of the government seizing their assets or forcing hospitals to turn them away I am gleefully watching them die for Donald Trump.
Not getting vaxxed and dying from COVID to own the Libs. coffee
Posted By: pdx rick Re: no vaccine folks - 08/12/21 04:18 AM
Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
The problem with asset seizure after a no-vax death, is that most adult's "assets" are their ability to work for another 20 or 30 years. Few people have much saved for retirement or houses without mortgages.
There's also the long-term disability that COVID is heaping upon the unvaxxed survivors of COVID.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: no vaccine folks - 08/12/21 04:19 AM
Black Lives Matter™ has some explaining to do.
Of all the civil rights activist groups that have a decent amount of pull, you'd think they would have picked up the vaccine bullhorn a long time ago.
Their silence almost equals complicity with the anti-vaccine crowd.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Posted By: pdx rick Re: no vaccine folks - 08/12/21 04:23 AM
Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
Black Lives Matter™ has some explaining to do.
Of all the civil rights activist groups that have a decent amount of pull, you'd think they would have picked up the vaccine bullhorn a long time ago.
Their silence almost equals complicity with the anti-vaccine crowd.
Silence = Death

h/t ACT-UP 1990s smile
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: no vaccine folks - 08/12/21 05:02 AM
Originally Posted by pdx rick
Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
Black Lives Matter™ has some explaining to do.
Of all the civil rights activist groups that have a decent amount of pull, you'd think they would have picked up the vaccine bullhorn a long time ago.
Their silence almost equals complicity with the anti-vaccine crowd.
Silence = Death

h/t ACT-UP 1990s smile

Of particular importance, ActUP! is a textbook example of how a militant activist group learns how to be excellent leaders once they're seated at the table. Most activist groups don't manage to take the next step toward leadership, so ActUP! deserves a lot of respect.
I am hoping BLM™ steps up and focuses their considerable reach into the black community WRT the vaccines.

And I can't understand why they remain hesitant, because in addition to the grace of such a noble effort, it would also forever drown out their critics who are desperately trying to paint them as bomb throwers.
Posted By: perotista Re: no vaccine folks - 08/12/21 03:19 PM
I've learned from experience that there are workers who make poor leaders, privates and SP/4's who were the greatest soldiers at that rank, fail the grade big time as sergeants.

There can be instances where one is a good leader in one area, but very poor in another. Perhaps the leaders of BLM are great leaders and organizers when it comes to protests, pushing equal rights etc. But poor on overall leadership of the group on a myriad of other things. Or perhaps they didn't think vaccinations as important as their reason for being, police brutality? We all have priorities, some things very important, other things kind of irrelevant or off our radar screen.

Actually, I think the NAACP is more of a voice when it comes to the overall black community and their stances on different things to include vaccines. The NAACP has been pushing for all to get vaccinate. BLM in my opinion is an organization created and adopted to deal with police injustice.

I wouldn't be hard on BLM as vaccinations really wasn't an issue for them, not a main issue, treatment of blacks by the police is their main issue..
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: no vaccine folks - 08/13/21 05:19 PM
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I want you to pay particular attention to the group under "Insurance Status".
A financial disaster awaits the 77% of insured Americans who are refusing the vaccines.
No way in Hell an insurance company is going to underwrite hundreds of thousands of extended hospital ICU stays for these people when their refusal to take the shots constitutes an avoidable risk.
It's worse than smoking, it's worse than driving without seat belts or riding without a helmet.
And health insurers have no choice but to pass these costs onto the consumers or else they will go bankrupt and so will their shareholders.

Yes, believe it or not, it is beginning to look as if the free market is going to be the arm that enforces vaccine mandates.
And we're about to witness a lot of Republicans who suddenly HATE capitalism.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: no vaccine folks - 08/13/21 05:24 PM
Originally Posted by perotista
I've learned from experience that there are workers who make poor leaders, privates and SP/4's who were the greatest soldiers at that rank, fail the grade big time as sergeants.

There can be instances where one is a good leader in one area, but very poor in another. Perhaps the leaders of BLM are great leaders and organizers when it comes to protests, pushing equal rights etc. But poor on overall leadership of the group on a myriad of other things. Or perhaps they didn't think vaccinations as important as their reason for being, police brutality? We all have priorities, some things very important, other things kind of irrelevant or off our radar screen.

Actually, I think the NAACP is more of a voice when it comes to the overall black community and their stances on different things to include vaccines. The NAACP has been pushing for all to get vaccinate. BLM in my opinion is an organization created and adopted to deal with police injustice.

I wouldn't be hard on BLM as vaccinations really wasn't an issue for them, not a main issue, treatment of blacks by the police is their main issue..

NAACP is a wonderful organization, but just as traditional conservatives and traditional Republicans are being shouted down by the larger Trump Party of COVID, just as rational Christians are buried under the explosion of Qanon believers, NAACP is barely audible above BLM's bully pulpit.
Most people who follow BLM, regardless of color, don't pay much attention to the marxist underpinnings, but that doesn't change what BLM does when it comes to spending their funds or their political capital.

When Patrisse Cullors and her little marxist friends shouted Bernie off the stage at a rally in 2015, they also said that none of the marching and activism of the Sixties meant shee-it to them. These same revolutionaries also want you to know that NAACP doesn't mean a damn thing to them either.

I'm going to be as hard on BLM as I can be, because they're the loudest voice in black civil rights activism, thus they have a duty, an obligation, to take a stand on the vaccines, because COVID is killing way more black people than the cops ever will.
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/21/21 10:53 PM
Don’t know if any of you are familiar with Beau of the Fifth Column. He’s a political journalist/vlogger. He’s interesting and has generally researched everything he talks about.

This is a link to one of his pieces. Someone told him that in order to be fair, he needed to provide advice to anti-vaxxers. And so he did. I think it’s pretty good advice.

Beau of the Fifth Column
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: no vaccine folks - 08/21/21 11:06 PM
He looks pretty scary but his posts are quite reasonable. I've enjoyed them for some time.
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/22/21 09:11 PM
Hmmm. I just googled him (been meaning to do that) and he has an interesting background…including some prison time for illegally bring young Eastern Europeans to Florida to work as maids. (I’ll admit this one bothers me more than a little.)

There are a lot of different opinions about him, which I wasn’t really expecting.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: no vaccine folks - 08/23/21 01:28 AM
I guess that depends on what his motivation was in doing that. "Sex slaves" versus "humanitarian rescue for war orphans" are two very different kettles of fish.
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/23/21 04:07 PM
Yep. And it one of those stories where it could be very hard, possibly impossible, to get an impartial look.
Posted By: Greger Re: no vaccine folks - 08/25/21 03:10 PM
Um...to be fair...anywhere men are concerned, sex is a primal motivating factor.

The males of our species are brutes. Sexual predators from an early age. Some are more dangerous than others, more aggressive...

None are to be trusted.

Hopefully, he was kind.
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/25/21 04:33 PM
Just a note: sexual predators are not kind. If they were, they wouldn’t be predators.

This guy wasn’t convicted of a personal attack. He assisted some women in entering the US illegally and helped them get work as maids (in Florida.) To me it seems possible to read between the lines, but that doesn’t jibe with his actual conviction.

And I think you’re being too hard on men. Of the men I’ve known, only four have been what I would call predators. The rest were civilized.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: no vaccine folks - 08/25/21 08:02 PM
Most child molesters in the US are family members who cultivate "a special relationship" with their younger relations. This almost never involves being aggressive or threatening their victims. It's all about "kindness"! More likely treats, praise, special "just for two" outings, etc. Other family members see it positively, as a strong bond between an adult man and his niece, or whatever. Until the actual relationship comes out, of course.

Are they predators? Of course they are! Just sophisticated predators who know kindness works better than aggression.
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/25/21 09:32 PM
Pondering, that is anything but kindness. The good of the child is not considered. It’s manipulation for the pleasure of the perpetrator. It Is, again, anything BUT kindness.

What it looks like is absolutely not important. The intention, and the action, and the damage are.
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/25/21 10:15 PM
Post deleted. It was a personal story and I don’t like making an argument that way.
Posted By: logtroll Re: no vaccine folks - 08/26/21 01:02 AM
How’s about a personal story that isn’t an argument?
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/26/21 02:09 AM
I didn’t mean argument in that sense. I should have been more clear. But okay: My second husband was devoted to me, never wanted us to be apart. It all looked very sweet and honey-mooney from the outside. But he wasn’t being sweet; he was being a warden. He didn’t let me out of his sight. I remember once he insisted I come out and watch him water the yard; my being in the living room, alone with a book, simply wasn’t acceptable.

It was psychologically terrifying, and we weren’t married very long. Abusive men are very often charming - but being charming on the outside can hide a lot of ugliness. When I spoke to someone at the spouse abuse crisis center, and explained what was going on, I was told to get the hell out, because although he hadn’t hit me yet, he was going to, and soon. I got out.

All of this is to say the appearance of charm, or generosity, or kindness, doesn’t count for much. Two clichès: actions speak louder than words, and don’t judge a book by its cover.
Posted By: logtroll Re: no vaccine folks - 08/26/21 11:32 AM
Jeebus! shocked
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/26/21 12:57 PM
Yeah, it was a hot mess, but it was a long time ago. But I think it’s why reacted, and probably misread to some extent, pondering’s and greger’s posts. In fact, re-reading it, I see more clearly what pondering was saying and I agree. I reacted to the words, not to what they said, and I apologize.

I still have to disagree with Greger in that I believe true predators are a minority among men. Maybe that’s just me being hopeful, but I don’t believe the numbers support it.
Posted By: Greger Re: no vaccine folks - 08/26/21 02:14 PM
Most men are able to control their baser instincts.

To some extent.

I'm not saying that good men don't exist. But I believe there is a dark side to all of them/us. The capability to take advantage of and abuse those around them when the chance arises exists in all of them.

Catholic priests are a pretty good example.

Are their life and their ministry to their flock nothing more than a facade to hide their craving for sex with young boys...? Or are they good men brought low by a repressive system that denies them basic physical needs?

Men are a twisted lot. Warlike, brutal, greedy, and abusive.

When I said I hoped he was kind I meant that I hoped he only raped them and didn't also beat them. And that the help continued afterward.

Many would just kick them to the curb when they were done. Or kill them outright.
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/26/21 02:31 PM
And I will not accept that rape is kinder than a beating, or the other way around.

There may be a dark side to any or all of us. But I don’t believe that we are all hulking around fighting the inner beast and an instinct to rape and pillage. Most of us are in hunt and gather mode, as in “Where’s the nearest post office” and “are grapefruits on sale at Kroger’s?”

I’m not being flippant here. Even in war, many many many soldiers say a) they got no joy out of killing other humans and b) many many many of them regret what they had to do. And if that’s true of enemies in war, at mankind’s most bloodthirsty, how much more would it be true of fellow humans in peace?
Posted By: Greger Re: no vaccine folks - 08/26/21 02:54 PM
Quote
if that’s true of enemies in war, at mankind’s most bloodthirsty, how much more would it be true of fellow humans in peace?

Ask the Taliban that question. Ask ISIS, Ask the many many American war criminals. The Nazis. The guards at Andersonville.

Or the guards at Guantanamo Bay.

Check your news for rapes and murders and child abuse. Some men control their urge to abuse fellow humans...but take it out on their dogs!
Many upstanding members of the community abuse their wives and children emotionally and sometimes physically.

I don't think you could argue that we are the most dangerous animal on the planet.

Like any other animal, when we are well fed and sexually sated, comfortable and happy, warm and dry, we are easier to get along with.

Sometimes.
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/26/21 03:08 PM
Greger, you are in danger of mansplaining. Humans are not born Nazis, or Taliban. They are taught and trained, like some but not all Rottweilers and pit bulls. And those groups you name are still only a percentage, not even half - of humanity.

If the majority of humanity were as you say, there would be blood in the streets, not in some places, but all over the earth. And there isn’t. Far too much, yes, but it’s not overwhelming.

Either we disagree on this very deeply, or you are feeding me a line to see how far you can lead me. One way or another, the dentist is gracing me with a crown this morning, so I’m off to his throne. (He’s an ex-soldier, and a very good dentist, and I feel perfectly safe with him.)
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/26/21 10:52 PM
Our governor made some comments today; I will excerpt them here.

One: he declared a hospital staffing emergency in the state., although

Two: he said hospital capacity remains manageable, and the increased load was not due to more Covid cases across the state. I can’t find what the cause of the increased load might be, unless it’s too many funnel cakes at state and county fairs.

Three: he repeated his opposition to mask and vaccine mandates, especially in schools., because “We know that children are no more at risk to fatality from COVID than they are from the regular flu.”

In short, we’re going to re-license retired nurses if we can find them, and not worry about the little kids unless they start to die in larger numbers.
Posted By: logtroll Re: no vaccine folks - 08/26/21 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by Mellowicious
Humans are not born Nazis, or Taliban.
I was born a Mormon, but my parents had me vaccinated. So far, so good...
Posted By: logtroll Re: no vaccine folks - 08/26/21 11:51 PM
I posted something like this before, but nobody bought in. It's the idea that refusal to get vaccinated or to take any social distancing precautions could result in charges of reckless endangerment or criminal negligence should that person get Covid and pass it on to someone else.

I'm surprised that we have not heard of such lawsuits yet.
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/27/21 02:47 AM
Sounds good to me but people are not always aware that they’re carrying the virus. Also, now that we know about breakthroughs, exempting the vaccinated would be questionable as well.
Posted By: logtroll Re: no vaccine folks - 08/27/21 11:49 AM
Originally Posted by Mellowicious
Sounds good to me but people are not always aware that they’re carrying the virus. Also, now that we know about breakthroughs, exempting the vaccinated would be questionable as well.
How about this guy? Assuming he lives, should there be any charges if it could be proven that he transmitted the Covid to anyone else?

If the charges were reckless endangerment, or criminal negligence (both involve knowingly taking risks and ignoring the safety and welfare of others), it seems he would clearly have liability for any damage inflicted.

I think the awareness that indulging in one’s own ‘freedom’ to be stupid at the risk of heavy fines or jail time would convince a great many anti-vaxxers to get their vax on. End their silly vaxxilations about it, if you will…

The great thing about it is that it preserves personal freedoms by still giving those people a choice!
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: no vaccine folks - 08/27/21 06:04 PM
He's not going to live. They are getting the DNR order right now. The hospital told his wife they are out of options for treatment. He's been in an induced coma on a ventilator for 19 days, and his lungs are so stiff they barely function.

Quote
When he first felt symptoms on July 26, his wife told the Standard-Times, he refused to get tested or seek medical care. He instead began treating himself with a cocktail of Vitamin C, zinc, aspirin and ivermectin

So much for "the miracle drug". He should have looked around for monoclonal antibody cocktail. That actually works if you start soon enough. But I guess you have to believe the virus is real to seek an antibody treatment for it.

This is like the fourth prominent anti-mask anti-vax leader to die from Covid-19 recently. I wonder if this has more to do with increased vaccinations than the FDA approval?
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/27/21 06:45 PM
OK, I have to say this. I know we’re all frustrated with non-vaxx people but denying treatment, even to the incredibly stupid, seems pretty coldhearted to me. Yes, there needs to be a better solution, and no, I have no idea what it is. But as incredibly stupid as these people are, they are still human.

What happens to a drunk driver who is injured in a wreck and injures or kills someone? It seems similar to me.
Posted By: Greger Re: no vaccine folks - 08/27/21 07:06 PM
Quote
denying treatment, even to the incredibly stupid, seems pretty coldhearted to me.

Yep. Insurance companies could get involved though and possibly cancel anti-vaxxers.

It's also pretty coldhearted to cheer the bastards on and hope for enough of them to die to affect the 2022 election. But I'm gonna do that anyway.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: no vaccine folks - 08/27/21 08:51 PM
If the government wasn't paying for much of the Covid treatment, you can be sure insurance companies would be demanding they should be able to deny anti-vaxxers coverage. Policies that have to be ACA-compliant could not do that, but all the idiots who bought Trump-special limited coverage policies would be screwed. Just like we warned them...
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/27/21 09:30 PM
Yes, well, I don’t expect even the slightest bit of compassion from the insurance industry.
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/27/21 10:20 PM
And, as expected, numbers are way up after Sturgis. I’m guessing they would be lower if large numbers of the attendees were vaccinated, but that’s only an assumption at this point.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: no vaccine folks - 08/28/21 07:14 AM
Quote
compassion from the insurance industry

I laughed so hard, iced tea shot out of my nose when I read that.
No, compassion is not something the insurance industry ever does. I suspect their shareholders would have somebody's head on a pike, if they ever heard of that.

I just heard something interesting on TWIV: It seems now that the Pfizer vaccine has full approval, docs have the option to use it off-label for kids who are under 12. It's only the EUA that allows use in 12 and up, but the rules for off-label use of fully approved drugs and biologicals are more liberal! So parents trying to get their 11 year olds vaccinated before the school year starts don't have to lie about the kid's age. They just need to find a pediatrician who is giving Pfizer vaccinations.
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 08/28/21 06:05 PM
Which which shift the payment, and possibly the cost, to insurance companies and/or the recipient of the vaccine correct?
Posted By: logtroll Re: no vaccine folks - 08/29/21 01:41 PM
I wonder why a person would take Ivermectin, but be adamantly opposed to a vaccine?
Posted By: pdx rick Re: no vaccine folks - 08/29/21 02:04 PM
For those keeping score, COVID has taken the following big-mouthed anti-vaxxer Rightwingers in the past few days:

  • Dick Ferrel
  • Phil Valentine
  • Scott Apley
  • Marc Bernier
  • Caleb Wallace

Karma and Darwin are winning. coffee
Posted By: Greger Re: no vaccine folks - 08/29/21 02:05 PM
Quote
I wonder why a person would take Ivermectin, but be adamantly opposed to a vaccine?

Because they don't trust anything the government says...

If gov says get the vaccine, they are suspicious and refuse.

If gov says don't take ivermectin they are suspicious so they take it.

And they think we're the fools.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: no vaccine folks - 08/29/21 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by logtroll
I wonder why a person would take Ivermectin, but be adamantly opposed to a vaccine?
...or Hydroxychloroquine?




Hmm
Posted By: logtroll Re: no vaccine folks - 08/29/21 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by pdx rick
...or Hydroxychloroquine?
To be fair, that one was prescribed by Dr. Don.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: no vaccine folks - 08/30/21 06:51 PM
Originally Posted by Greger
Quote
I wonder why a person would take Ivermectin, but be adamantly opposed to a vaccine?

Because they don't trust anything the government says...

If gov says get the vaccine, they are suspicious and refuse.

If gov says don't take ivermectin they are suspicious so they take it.

And they think we're the fools.
It is a project of the GOP that has been in operation since Ronald Reagan's "The government is the problem" asininity. They wanted to create suspicion of government to undercut the Democratic party. The result has been catastrophic for their party and the United States (witness 1/6). We won't get over it soon.
Posted By: logtroll Re: no vaccine folks - 08/30/21 11:48 PM
Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
\We won't get over it soon.
If ever...
Posted By: jgw Re: no vaccine folks - 08/31/21 06:19 PM
My wife told me that anti-vaxxers, that goto the hospital are now responsible for some of the bills that are run up in their covid care. If they die then the estate is charged. She said one person had a million dollar bill to pay and nothing was left for the family. Makes perfectly good sense to me!
Posted By: logtroll Re: no vaccine folks - 09/01/21 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by Greger
Quote
I wonder why a person would take Ivermectin, but be adamantly opposed to a vaccine?

Because they don't trust anything the government says...

If gov says get the vaccine, they are suspicious and refuse.

If gov says don't take ivermectin they are suspicious so they take it.

And they think we're the fools.

This guy explains it pretty well:

https://mobile.twitter.com/traecrowder/status/1432427573326143489
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: no vaccine folks - 09/01/21 09:47 PM
I think by now “vaccine” is mostly a rallying cry. If they started referring to it as “the Ivermectin vaccine” I think use of it would stop!
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: no vaccine folks - 09/01/21 10:35 PM
Or call it "The Trump Vaccine". That would cause some tiny little heads to explode.

"Get the Trump Vaccine, so you'all will be around to vote for Trump in 2024! Own the libs!"
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