Capitol Hill Blue
Posted By: pdx rick Say no to bipartisanship - 06/01/21 03:58 AM
Bipartisanship is not what it is cracked-up to be. I will never understand why Dems want to make legislation with a group of people who believe that government doesn't work and ensures that any law passed makes government doesn't work, true.

Bipartisanship only leads to watered-down inadequate legislation or no legislation at all. If you want a government that works, bipartisanship is not an objective, it's a deterrent.

Biden needs to go big and go bold on everything he does in the next four years. Republicans are only an anchor around his neck and all one has to do is look at all of Obama's watered-down legislation due to the Republicans to validate what I am writing is true.

Hmm
Posted By: perotista Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/01/21 12:12 PM
I think there's a difference between bipartisanship and being willing to compromise and play the game of give and take. Reagan and Tip O'Neill played that game to the hilt. In the end both got most of what they wanted, the other always received something which always helped future negotiations. Each always would come back next year to try to get what they didn't originally. With these two you pretty much knew there would be no loggerheads, stalemates, gridelock. I would say each had their own agenda and each was able to keep their agenda's moving forward. No small accomplishment.

Of course this was in a previous political era where both major parties respected the other and each realized the other had the same goal, a secure, prosperous and free America. Only the paths to get there was a bit different.

Today, there is no respect from the parties for the other. Both view the other party as this nation's number one enemy. More of an enemy than Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, terrorist, you name it. In today's modern political era of polarization, the great divide, mega, ultra high partisanship, there may be no room for compromise or playing that old game of give and take. I still wouldn't call it bipartisanship, both Reagan and old Tip were partisan as all get out, yet they could work together. I would say, both realized that politics is the art or the game of gaining the possible.Putting the impossible on the back burner for a try at it later.

We have a different breed of politicians these days. I don't like them. There's nothing for me to like in today's modern political era. What we've been going to is government by EO's and not legislation. Perhaps the intransigent of both parties to work with the other and always opposing any and every thing the other proposes is one of the reasons why. But EO's can be repealed, changed and replaced by any new president coming into the office. That is if the courts let them. Congress is becoming more and more irrelevant, but that is congress's own fault as over time they have ceded more and more of their constitutional powers to the administration and other government departments.

It is what it is whether one likes it or not. Go bold, that might be the only option in today's modern political era. If it's too bold, the midterm results will rectify that. Time will tell.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/01/21 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by perotista
Today, there is no respect from the parties for the other.

How can one have respect for a group of people who believe that government doesn't work and ensures that any law passed makes sure that government doesn't work?
How can one have respect for a group who waters-down legislation so that it is inadequate?

Originally Posted by perotista
Both view the other party as this nation's number one enemy. .
Pretty sure that Republicans did that on their own last week when they refused to investigate the 1/6 Insurrection and support folks like Michael Flynn who call for a "Myanmar-type coup."

Hmm
Posted By: perotista Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/01/21 05:54 PM
Nevertheless, respect was there until relatively recently. Perhaps the debate is how much is government's responsibility and how much is an individual's responsibitiy. Now that is a debate that has been going on ever since I was born.
Posted By: jgw Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/01/21 06:27 PM
I just wanted to say that I don't think you are against bi-partisan stuff so much as bi-partisan stuff with the current batch loons passing as Republicans. I think that most, who don't vote Republican probably agree with that.

Functional Bi-partisan stuff, however, works! The theory is simple. Two sides sit down and say what they are for and against and then they come up with something they both can live with. This means that neither side gets their way and whatever they are doing is tends to not represent one side or the other. This is, I think, a good thing.

Apologies, I have harped on this one for a very long time!
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/01/21 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by jgw
The theory is simple. Two sides sit down and say what they are for and against and then they come up with something they both can live with.
How can any rational person negotiate with someone who beleives that government doesn't work. You're already being dragged-down to getting 50% of what you want? It's best to go it alone and get 100% of what you want - when you're in charge.


Hmm
Posted By: jgw Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/02/21 05:03 PM
You are right! all I am doing is repeating how it can work and how that happens. That is never going to happen with the current crop of Trump Republicans.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/08/21 02:32 PM
A 128-page U.S. Senate bipartisan report on the Trump-incited Capitol insurrection of January 6 mentions the word "insurrection" only nine times – seven are in footnotes citing source material, and two are quotes from witness testimony. It also does not include Donald Trump's incitement of the insurrection, or his team's plans to do so, aside from mentioning his speech for timeline context.

How many more examples are needed to validate that partnering with Republicans to bring bipartisanship to anything government related, simply waters-down that thing from being meaningful in any way? Hmm

US Senate Report
Posted By: Greger Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/08/21 03:31 PM
As I see it the problem is not republican obstruction so much as it is democratic obstruction.

I agree wholeheartedly with you, but until Manchin and Sinema start voting with democrats they have a 52/48 majority in the Senate.

Republicans need only to sit on their hands while Dems argue among themselves.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/08/21 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by Greger
As I see it the problem is not republican obstruction so much as it is democratic obstruction.

I agree wholeheartedly with you, but until Manchin and Sinema start voting with democrats they have a 52/48 majority in the Senate.

Republicans need only to sit on their hands while Dems argue among themselves.
Both Manchin and Sinema are DINOs. Hmm
Posted By: logtroll Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/09/21 01:01 AM
Can we have democracy without political parties?
Posted By: perotista Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/09/21 02:58 AM
That's what the founding fathers and framers wanted. They were afraid that with the founding of political parties it would be party over country. They envisioned people running for office on their own without the benefit of a political party. Andrew Jackson established the first modern political party, the Democratic Party. Parties prior to that weren't political parties as we envision them. More like clubs of like minded individuals.

One also needs to remember in the beginning as a Representative Republic, it was mostly state legislature who awarded their states electoral votes. The people voted for their state representatives and their state representatives awarded their states electoral votes as the peoples representatives. It wasn't until 1868 that all states went to the popular vote.

Louisiana in 1977 went with a jungle primary without placing the letter of party affiliation behind the candidates name. That was changed for the next election cycle as a lot of people complained they didn't know who to vote for without the party affiliation being on the ballot behind the candidates name. Just goes to show you that who the candidate is doesn't matter to a lot of folks, it's the party.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/17/21 01:16 AM
The problem with the filibuster as it currently stands, is that it only applies exactly when Republicans want it to apply: The things important to Republicans are taxes and confirming conservative judges: No filibuster applies to either. Democrats want to pass laws to improve things for our country: Unless they fit into budget reconciliation, Republicans can filibuster them.

So heads, Republicans win. Tails, Democrats lose. Manchin claims to be concerned that if we get rid of the filibuster altogether, Republicans will always get their way if they regain power in both Houses and the Presidency. But they do already! I think he and Senema won't have to worry about that, because if congress does not pass the voting rights bill, they will not be reelected. And perhaps American democracy is finished.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/17/21 05:08 AM
So, here's the thing about filibusters, the bill can pass on straight party line AFTER the filibuster is over. Just let the GQP'er crybabies have their hissy-fit, then the Dems can get the Bill signed into law.

Hmm
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/18/21 10:21 AM
That's not what the rules say now. Some Senator just has to say he will filibuster and the bill is dead. Just getting rid of that would be enough. If somebody threatens to filibuster, fine: Let them. They can talk until their vocal chords give out, and then the debate is over. It might take a while to get to a floor vote, but it would eventually because the Senate has to get to other things.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/29/21 06:00 PM
Biden's infastructure deal proves bipartisanship can't deliver

Quote
For a moment last week, President Joe Biden’s vision of a dealmaking, bipartisan Senate that gets big things done for the American people looked like it could soon become reality. With Biden’s announcement that Democrats and Republicans “have a deal” on infrastructure, it seemed both sides in Washington, DC, were on the verge of coming together to pass a large bill — one that would not only help rebuild America’s roads and bridges but also, potentially, move to tackle climate change, expand access to broadband internet, and remove lead from drinking water.

...

Last week’s news was about a $1 trillion deal that some Senate Democrats and Republicans are working to get through the 60-vote threshold required overcome the filibuster. But, as Biden has said, Democrats are also working on another measure, ranging anywhere from $2 trillion to $6 trillion, that could pass Congress with only Democratic support by using the reconciliation process. Biden is promising and working toward bipartisanship but already planning to sign a partisan bill to fill the void the bipartisan measure leaves in place.

...

Meanwhile, the rest of Biden’s agenda, from voting rights to gun control, now looks very unlikely to get anywhere in Congress. If lawmakers can barely achieve a bipartisan moment with infrastructure spending — which once was, as Biden noted last week, a common source of bipartisan consensus — it’s unlikely more contentious legislation stands a chance.
Posted By: Greger Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 06/30/21 02:38 PM
So, are you telling me that hyper-partisanship will deliver more in the long run than bi-partisanship?

As much fun as I've had hating my neighbors and former friends over their political beliefs, I'm okay with the current deal-making going on. Do it a dozen times over and it might become the norm again.

Republicans alone never delivered an infrastructure package. Democrats alone couldn't do it. It's a sad little pissant infrastructure package compared to the magnificent legislation proposed by Democrats. But could it be a start towards healing the nation?
Posted By: perotista Re: Say no to bipartisanship - 07/02/21 12:32 AM
Compromise or stand on principle. This poll is old, but the newest one I have.

The 18% who think leaders should stick to their principles is a new low
28% take a neutral position on the issue
44% of Republicans and 62% of Democrats favor compromise

https://news.gallup.com/poll/220265/americans-favor-compromise-things-done-washington.aspx

Gallup had done this on a yearly basis, I suppose they ceased. Now this is kind of a long slide show, but interesting nonetheless.

Compromise in an age of party polarization

https://www.colorado.edu/outreach/o...u_on_the_weekend_-_compromise_slides.pdf
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