Capitol Hill Blue
Posted By: pdx rick Trump Forum - 12/12/16 02:37 PM

None of the threads in the newly created Trump Forum show up in the "Current Topics" column on the right side of the main page.

I have stopped using the Trump Forum for new threads for this very reason. Hmm
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/12/16 04:27 PM
I noticed that too frown
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 12/12/16 04:29 PM
Quote:
None of the threads in the newly created Trump Forum show up in the "Current Topics" column on the right side of the main page.


While glitches with new forums are fairly common these days, what strikes me as odd about this post, Rick, is that the "Current Topics" appear on the left side of my screen.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/12/16 04:38 PM


You're correct Greger, I meant to write "left side." My bad. cry
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/12/16 08:29 PM
The incoming Trump administration:

Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/12/16 08:50 PM



We've always said that CONservatives state the opposite of reality. Hmm
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/12/16 10:47 PM
I suspect if you guys were really diligent the Trump Forum would soon be overloaded and bring the whole site down

jes sayn
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 12/13/16 01:19 AM
I'm so sorry, I cannot figure out how to fix the problem frown
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/13/16 01:33 AM
I guess we could keep this thread and migrate the other stuff over here?
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/13/16 01:54 AM
Originally Posted By: Ezekiel
I guess we could keep this thread and migrate the other stuff over here?

That won't work because this is actually the "Tell It To The Editors" Forum.

Maybe Doug can help us, Jeff. smile
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 12/13/16 11:11 PM
I will continue to ask for help from the other mods. Maybe someone will know how to fix this.
I remain in favor of posting issues about the administration under The Trump Administration.
You can ALWAYS click on ACTIVE TOPICS to see "active topics", you know.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 12/14/16 04:28 AM
Good explanation of some of Trump's conflicts of interest:

HOW DONALD TRUMP'S BUSINESS TIES ARE ALREADY JEOPARDIZING U.S. INTERESTS

Why bother electing someone who will be impeachable on day one? The electoral college should all just vote for Kasich. If all the Democratic electors voted for him it would only take 38 Republican votes.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/14/16 04:55 AM
there will be no impeachment of Mr Trump .... Republicans will not allow it to happen

remember he could etc etc
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 12/14/16 05:53 AM
But you know what will be the most amusing? We KNOW President Trump is GOING to get caught trying some strange skirt, yes?
Since Melania WILL be in NYC for a few months till Barron finishes school, our President-elect WILL be boffing some strange and he WILL get caught.
And it will be highly entertaining watching all the Christian Right spinning till they pass out trying to excuse it, along with their Alt-Reich counterparts.
Don't forget all the maniacal RW outrage over Bill Clinton getting caught enjoying a BJ (and more) in the Oval Office.
But for Trump, a FREE PASS.

Conflicts of interest, threatening electors or strange skirt?
A veritable Basket of Undoings?
Posted By: Phil Hoskins Re: Trump Forum - 12/14/16 08:27 AM
Maybe we should try a Republican route? Let all government employees (yes including the President) to engage in any business run the country as part of his or her business?
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/14/16 11:32 AM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
there will be no impeachment of Mr Trump .... Republicans will not allow it to happen

remember he could etc etc


Erroneous assumption: you presume a Repub majority past 2018. May not be the case.
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/14/16 11:52 AM
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 12/14/16 12:41 PM
THAT hits the funny bone...
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/14/16 02:26 PM
LOL .... ok at least through 2018 he could declare himself to be emperor of the universe etc etc

now about 2018 ... my recollection of the the political map indicates the D's can not win majorities in either house ("Reeling Democrats confront brutal 2018 Senate map" and House majority is too large to overcome).

So it would appear you have fantasized election outcomes which do not reflect measured realities. Here is a sample of what you may be thinking which would turn voters around

ACA - conservative propaganda has convinced a huge chuck of Americans ACA is bad, so regardless if 25M people are thrown off the insurance rolls it would be considered a great thing

Russian relations - Trump supporters do not care if Russia does what it wants to do and anything they do except take over America doe not affect them therefore etc

Iran deal - again conservative propaganda based on hatred of the Iranians will not change anyone's mind

jobs - he saved 800 jobs temporarily (which is not the same as creating jobs) and he will negotiate saving jobs by giving away taxpayer dollars - who cares? - and he will create some 10k jobs in the oil field therefore etc etc

genitalia grabbing - conservatives love this stuff .... your outrage and indignation of some virtuously bankrupt president does not mean a lot

note these are not assumptions but derivative conclusions based on the reality of a Trump win and aftermath. perhaps you can provide a few reasons why you would think that bucking political headwinds are favorable for a Democrat reversal?
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/14/16 02:59 PM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
LOL .... ok at least through 2018 he could declare himself to be emperor of the universe etc etc

now about 2018 ... my recollection of the the political map indicates the D's can not win majorities in either house ("Reeling Democrats confront brutal 2018 Senate map" and House majority is too large to overcome).

So it would appear you have fantasized election outcomes which do not reflect measured realities. Here is a sample of what you may be thinking which would turn voters around

ACA - conservative propaganda has convinced a huge chuck of Americans ACA is bad, so regardless if 25M people are thrown off the insurance rolls it would be considered a great thing

Russian relations - Trump supporters do not care if Russia does what it wants to do and anything they do except take over America doe not affect them therefore etc

Iran deal - again conservative propaganda based on hatred of the Iranians will not change anyone's mind

jobs - he saved 800 jobs temporarily (which is not the same as creating jobs) and he will negotiate saving jobs by giving away taxpayer dollars - who cares? - and he will create some 10k jobs in the oil field therefore etc etc

genitalia grabbing - conservatives love this stuff .... your outrage and indignation of some virtuously bankrupt president does not mean a lot

note these are not assumptions but derivative conclusions based on the reality of a Trump win and aftermath. perhaps you can provide a few reasons why you would think that bucking political headwinds are favorable for a Democrat reversal?


I forgot you are a soothsayer ROTFMOL
By the way - you are assuming a version of reality that only a cracked crystal ball could know.


Time (and Trump economic disaster) will tell.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/14/16 06:18 PM
the only assumption made was the status of current situation will remain about the same ergo my comments would be appropriate

you are hoping the situation will change adversely in a dramatic fashion which will influence future elections. So you made 2 assumptions
1. bad things will happen ( and let me say i suspect nothing good will happen based on probable policies of his cabinet picks but not withstanding there may be a reasonably high probability of an economic contraction ahead which would contribute to your assumption)
2. and most importantly and pay attention .... you assume it will change peoples minds. I am far less certain than you that the rampant ignorance of the American voter would suddenly be elevated into reasonable thinking

may all your hopes not rest on things out of your control
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/14/16 06:35 PM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
the only assumption made was the status of current situation will remain about the same ergo my comments would be appropriate


WHY???????
Bad assumption, as I said previously.
BTW - it has nothing to do with changing people's minds. It has to do with wreaking havoc. People don't need to be convinced things are bad when they actually are bad.
Nonetheless, I am not sure what will happen as you cannot be sure either. I think the economic consequences will be dire through pure ineptitude. But I could be wrong. He may do a great job (now that it about as likely as winning the Powerball, but, it does happen).
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/14/16 08:29 PM
i think the argument you are making is, if and when the situation becomes dire economically or through foreign relations, the implication is it will change peoples minds and they will vote for Dems.

could be, but i won't assume that to be the case
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/14/16 08:35 PM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
i think the argument you are making is, if and when the situation becomes dire economically or through foreign relations, the implication is it will change peoples minds and they will vote for Dems.

could be, but i won't assume that to be the case





I don't assume. But see it as a possibility. If things get bad enough they'll vote for anything but what they currently have.
Posted By: matthew Re: Trump Forum - 12/14/16 10:34 PM
'
We are only a Reichstag Fire or a 9/11 away from draconian legislation (the Republican majorities will not stop Trump) that will turn our already half-militarized USA into a full-fledged police state. If Trump packs the courts with his appointments, you can kiss the Constitution (such as it is) goodbye.

Anyway, that's what Hitler did, and Trump has clearly studied his German progenitor's playbook.
.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 12/15/16 04:26 AM
In 1998, the Right was finishing up the last of nearly three dozen domestic terror attacks on innocent Americans. In 2001, the Right warned that The Patriot Act would turn us into a police state. In 2008, the Right blamed Obama for trying to do so.
Now that we are facing a near certain probability of being turned into exactly that, the Right is now embracing Putin.

Vladimir Putin’s Popularity Skyrocketing Among Republicans



I think the pattern is sufficient to make the announcement:
The American Right hates democracy and wants a fascist police state.

Americans are supposed to kill fascists.
We took pride in doing so seventy years ago in WW2.
Now we give them safe haven.

Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/15/16 10:20 AM
Police state: whenever the rights and grievances of workers were the issue the U.S. govt. ALWAYS reacted like a police state. The ruling class will defend its profits with any and all means at its disposal. Trump has only laid bare that reality. He stripped away the euphemistic double speak and basically said: "Yeah, this is who we are. And we will crush anyone who dares threaten it."
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/15/16 01:53 PM
while listening to an interview with Rep Blackburn (TN), ultra right wing representative, it struck me as she apologized for everything Mr Trump was doing and will do, she has become a part of the creation of a mythos surrounding him ... he is a man of the people .... he can do not wrong .... he will etc etc

Pres Reagan .... look out you have been replaced
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 12/15/16 05:12 PM
Remember GW Bush? Like Trump he lost the popular vote but won enough electoral votes to take control. He also assumed a mandate to govern as an extreme right winger. He also appointed ideological neophytes. Despite a disastrous economy and two wars... he was reelected. I truly fear for my country. Do not expect electors to bail us out.
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 12/15/16 06:07 PM
Quote:
Do not expect electors to bail us out.

I too don’t expect the EC to change their votes. I think that would just further serve to sow chaos into our already severely divided nation.

Part of me wants to see Trump go down as a colossal failure who wrecked our nation, yet the other side asks me if I really want to see that happen. Would my (and others) personal schadenfreude be worth the destruction of our nation?

At this time I really can’t answer that.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/15/16 08:17 PM
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
Quote:
Do not expect electors to bail us out.

I too don’t expect the EC to change their votes. I think that would just further serve to sow chaos into our already severely divided nation.

True. The Constitution does require the electors to "vote their conscious." I will also add that this election cycle has already been strange and unpredictable. Hmm

Also too, a major number of electors defied the people's choice in 1796, 1832, 1836, and 1896. smile
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/15/16 09:32 PM
If the EC doesn't vote Trump who knows what "moran" we'll end up with frown
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 12/16/16 05:22 AM
As opposed to the Moran we'll get if they do...
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 12/16/16 09:14 AM
Originally Posted By: Ezekiel
Police state: whenever the rights and grievances of workers were the issue the U.S. govt. ALWAYS reacted like a police state. The ruling class will defend its profits with any and all means at its disposal. Trump has only laid bare that reality. He stripped away the euphemistic double speak and basically said: "Yeah, this is who we are. And we will crush anyone who dares threaten it."


For a parallel recall Zappa:

Quote:
“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”


This is precisely what Zappa was talking about.
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/16/16 09:52 AM
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Ezekiel
Police state: whenever the rights and grievances of workers were the issue the U.S. govt. ALWAYS reacted like a police state. The ruling class will defend its profits with any and all means at its disposal. Trump has only laid bare that reality. He stripped away the euphemistic double speak and basically said: "Yeah, this is who we are. And we will crush anyone who dares threaten it."


For a parallel recall Zappa:

Quote:
“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”


This is precisely what Zappa was talking about.


Zappa, prescient, as always. smile
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/16/16 10:20 AM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
As opposed to the Moran we'll get if they do...

Right - hard to imagine they could do worse, but it IS possible.

Quote:
" the void is the space of freedom, the absence of certainties. But that's what we fear: not having certainties. So we switched the flight for cages. The cages are the place where certainties live." The Brothers Karamazov, Dostoyevsky.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/17/16 08:54 PM

Whoo boy... Trump writes "unpresidented" when he meant to write "unprecedented."





What a moran. I truly think the guy is illiterate.
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/17/16 09:31 PM
Ah Rick, you KNOW he did that on purpose ROTFMOL
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 12/17/16 09:40 PM
I'm starting to think, maybe he is on the Autism Spectrum. His actions and reactions, his need and want to be in places he knows, his need to have people that he knows be around him, his mistrust of strangers and anything not familiar to him and so on.
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/17/16 10:24 PM
Qui sait????

Quote:
In a letter addressed to President Barack Obama, three professors of psychiatry — including one from Harvard Medical School — expressed fears that President-elect Donald Trump’s exhibits signs he may not be mentally fit to assume the presidency.

In the letter, which can be found at The Huffington Post, Judith Herman, M.D. a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School — along with two professors who taught at the University of California, San Francisco — made the appeal to Obama based upon their “grave concern” after watching Trump’s antics.

“We are writing to express our grave concern regarding the mental stability of our President-Elect,” the letter reads. “Professional standards do not permit us to venture a diagnosis for a public figure whom we have not evaluated personally.”

“His widely reported symptoms of mental instability — including grandiosity, impulsivity, hypersensitivity to slights or criticism, and an apparent inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality — lead us to question his fitness for the immense responsibilities of the office,” it continues. “We strongly recommend that, in preparation for assuming these responsibilities, he receive a full medical and neuropsychiatric evaluation by an impartial team of investigators.”

This is not the first time questions have arisen over Trump’s mental stability as a world leader — or the stability of his followers.


Raw Story
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 12/18/16 03:12 AM
Quote:
In the letter, which can be found at The Huffington Post

A usual suspect, a liberal (therefore inaccurate) deceiving rag. Words not worth the inkless, paperless, paper they are not written upon.

If it makes sense and passes the truth test it is a lie. Welcome to 2016--and beyond.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/18/16 05:13 AM
geee-eeeez .... that's the way they spell it in NY
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/18/16 05:31 AM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
geee-eeeez .... that's the way they spell it in NY

Welp, at least at the over-priced schools that Fred Trump paid for Donald to be taught in... coffee
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 12/18/16 03:27 PM
Originally Posted By: Ujest Shurly
I'm starting to think, maybe he is on the Autism Spectrum. His actions and reactions, his need and want to be in places he knows, his need to have people that he knows be around him, his mistrust of strangers and anything not familiar to him and so on.


Ujest, I am on the spectrum, although let it be said, said "spectrum" is extremely wide, with all manner of functionality.
Trump ain't one of us. His son Baron, on the other hand, may very well be an Aspie.
Aspies do not mistrust strangers, they're just overwhelmed by the stimuli of interacting with them at times.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 12/18/16 04:52 PM
JJH, not a counter point or a push back, just an expression of what I have seen and learned and the basis.

Two half-brothers are and my youngest (high functioning Aspergers or Non-Verbal Learning Disorder depending on which profession you talk to) is.


picked up the consonant I dropped dunce
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/18/16 09:00 PM
Fellas, I know a few folks very much on the spectrum (which, as Jeff says, is very wide) as well as my own diagnosis. I believe Trump is mentally ill but not an Aspie, perhaps some narcissistic disorder, or something else along those lines. He may also be showing signs of dementia. As the late great Carlin put it: "The cheese fell off his cracker a while ago".
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/18/16 09:31 PM
not a psychiatrist so nothing i say may mean anything

somewhere i read a headline which stated he had a 156 IQ .... i did not read any further but did think if he had an IQ that high I am a potato

i also read several articles which suggested using the current DSM and some CIA criteria, he was definitely narcissistic and not from a layman's perspective but from knowledgeable people

over the last 10 years i have been tracking my mother's progression into senility and do not see any of the signs in Mr Trump

one thing which strikes me as unusual is, it is reported he takes information in burst mode only. short attention span??? incapable of broadly assessing information??? .... i see this as more of a mental deficiency especially in a job which requires 3-d context

what may be more curious is why do the people who surround him always apologize for what he says and does???
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/18/16 09:57 PM
Quote:
somewhere i read a headline which stated he had a 156 IQ


If this is true then the IQ test must have been fake. Either that or the news report that asserted it.
From my experience people with that high an IQ can be eccentric, but he doesn't qualify, IMO, as eccentric.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 12/18/16 11:20 PM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
... a 156 IQ ....

He definitely has at least a 156 ICK.
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/19/16 12:07 AM
On an unrelated related topic: does anyone know what ever happened to baby Melania?
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 12/19/16 06:42 AM
intelligence commotion - Snopes. Debunked the Trump IQ claim. I'm sure, though, that Trump promoted it. In my experience, people with that level of IQ don't behave like Trump. Mensa certainly has not been calling.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 12/19/16 12:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Ujest Shurly
JJH, not a counter point or a push back, just an expression of what I have seen and learned and the basis.

Two half-brothers are and my youngest (high functioning Aspergers or Non-Verbal Learning Disorder depending on which profession you talk to) is.


picked up the consonant I dropped dunce


I just wish it was that easy to dx the guy. If there's an Aspie gene hiding in his brain, and his swagger and sloppy thinking habits and lack of intellectual curiosity are his form of defense, then for me it is a first, because while I have encountered Aspies with a hostile streak (Prince, for instance) none so far come close to Donald Trump's. And the computer thing, his absolute refusal to even consider trying to learn how to use a computer, so very very un-Aspie like.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 12/19/16 12:09 PM
Originally Posted By: rporter314

what may be more curious is why do the people who surround him always apologize for what he says and does???


That is simple, ordinary run of the mill garden variety authoritarian bootlicking battered wife syndrome.

156 IQ? Puuuh-leeze.
I'm going to take a run at this and tag him as maybe 120 on his best day ever. And the dementia issue? Nope not yet but let him go a year, or even two, not getting everything he wants, and quitting in a Palin-esque hissy fit, then returning to find his damaged Trump brand irrecoverable at any cost, and you may very well see dementia begin to creep in.

If the dementia doesn't get him at that point, his incredibly large mouth consuming some of Vlad's Special Tea certainly will.

Don't piss Putin off, Mister President-elect. His cloak and dagger minions in the Kremlin will get to you one way or the other.
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/19/16 01:09 PM
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
[quote=rporter314]
...
156 IQ? Puuuh-leeze.
I'm going to take a run at this and tag him as maybe 120 on his best day ever.
....


I wouldn't even go that high. Maybe (and that's a big MAYBE) slightly over 100.
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/19/16 01:43 PM
No fear, Newt is on the case:



ROTFMOL
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 12/19/16 01:58 PM
Two quick intelligence tests that Trump dramatically fails:

"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool." Shakespeare

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
Einstein
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/19/16 04:16 PM


How will National Security Agencies get PEUTOS to sit still long enough to absorb security briefings?

Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/19/16 04:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Ezekiel
No fear, Newt is on the case:



ROTFMOL

The Swamp™ is simply being replaced with more hard-nosed, rightwing paleoconservative critters. Hmm
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 12/20/16 06:49 PM
I'm getting a little pissed of with all the media equation of high IQ with the Aspie spectrum. These are two separate things. Most people with high IQs are perfectly functional in the social aspects of their lives. Some people with mild Asperger's are very good at concentrating on one specific topic (which apparently the general population has a hard time doing) so they seem to be very intelligent, but usually they are not very good at all on social interaction..

I think a much higher correlation would be that almost nobody with an IQ over 130 ever watches WWF wrestling. I doubt Trump has either a high IQ or Asperger's: Just look at his behavior. It is much more like somebody with holes in brain from tertiary syphilis or a prion disease.
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/20/16 09:26 PM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all


I think a much higher correlation would be that almost nobody with an IQ over 130 ever watches WWF wrestling. I doubt Trump has either a high IQ or Asperger's: Just look at his behavior. It is much more like somebody with holes in brain from tertiary syphilis or a prion disease.

LOL ThumbsUp
I couldn't agree more!
Posted By: matthew Re: Trump Forum - 12/20/16 11:57 PM
'
Trump is a sociopath, not an Asperger's.
.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 12/21/16 12:55 AM
Not even a good sociopath, because he says and does reckless things that a sociopath would know to cover up. A sociopath would DO things that benefit himself, but would not want anybody else to know about them.

Sociopaths are glib and charming, everybody likes them. I think it is much more likely organic brain damage from some disease.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 12/21/16 12:59 AM
Could be Narcisstopheles syndrome.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 12/21/16 01:03 PM
Well one thing is certain, people will be talking about what President elect Trump is for at least the next 4 years.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 12/22/16 03:21 AM
As long as they are talkingabout him, he'll be happy.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 12/22/16 04:17 PM
I am continually impressed with how utterly juvenile Mr. Trump's behavior continues to be. There has never been a "pivot", and I never expected there to be one. The man is set in his ways. Bush, at least, had some political experience before being selected by the Supreme Court, so he knew he had to have some decorum. Trump has never been reined in, so he doesn't know how.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 12/22/16 06:02 PM
And he doesn't know what he doesn't know, and has no desire to.

This the ultimate case of incompetent people not being able to recognize incompetence, because they don't have those tools.


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

H.L. Mencken
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 12/22/16 06:20 PM
And that day has come.
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 12/22/16 07:31 PM
So now Trump has assigned Kellyanne Conjob to be his translator. Trump is free to spout all of his unfiltered alt right utterances to his adoring white robed fans, while ol Kelly “translates” what he is saying into a softer delivery to assuage those who might be aghast.

What a beautiful system.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/22/16 07:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
So now Trump has assigned Kellyanne Conjob to be his translator. Trump is free to spout all of his unfiltered alt right utterances to his adoring white robed fans, while ol Kelly “translates” what he is saying into a softer delivery to assuage those who might be aghast.

What a beautiful system.

Hagatha CONway will have her work cut out for her. Hmm
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 12/22/16 10:34 PM
So do you think she will actually take clues from Trump's spews, or is she just going to create an entire semi-rational set of positions out of whole cloth?
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 12/23/16 02:56 PM
U.N. council members meeting to decide on push to end settlements - Reuters. An earlier version of the story discussed the discussions between Netanyahu and Trump to block US ABSTENTION. Here it is: U.S. intended to allow passage of U.N. draft critical of Israel: officials.
Quote:
The United States intended to allow the U.N. Security Council to approve a resolution demanding an end to Israeli settlement building, two Western officials said on Thursday, a major reversal of U.S. practice, which prompted Israel to ask President-elect Donald Trump to apply pressure.
...
Israel's far-right and settler leaders have been buoyed by the election of Trump, who has signaled a possible change in U.S. policy by tapping a fundraiser for a major Israeli settlement as Washington's ambassador to Israel.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/23/16 06:42 PM
the settlement question dates back to 1922. The LoN decided to allow European Jews the right to establish a sovereign state in the Palestine Mandate and proposed a 2-state solution, so eventually there would be a state created for immigrant Jews and a state for local palestinians.

Fundamental to any effort to achieve the 2-state requires Palestinians actually have some land. Settlements undermine any legitimate effort to succeed.It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that continued settlements is an implicit admission there will never be a 2-state.

The US should sustain any votes which condemn continued settlements in the West Bank.
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/23/16 07:41 PM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
the settlement question dates back to 1922. The LoN decided to allow European Jews the right to establish a sovereign state in the Palestine Mandate and proposed a 2-state solution, so eventually there would be a state created for immigrant Jews and a state for local palestinians.

Fundamental to any effort to achieve the 2-state requires Palestinians actually have some land. Settlements undermine any legitimate effort to succeed.It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that continued settlements is an implicit admission there will never be a 2-state.

The US should sustain any votes which condemn continued settlements in the West Bank.


But playing to a certain demographic has always inhibited that on the part of U.S. politicians. Not that it should be seen as anti-Israel, on the contrary, if there were any real interest in reaching a 2-state solution, those settlements would have been stopped long ago.
It's the wingnuts that gum up the works.

BTW - the wingnuts (in the U.S.) win once more:

Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/23/16 08:54 PM
Now, how do we square this poll with Schumer backing Trump with respect to Res: 2334:
Jstreet.org published this poll in Nov. taken amongst American Jews.



62% supported abstaining or supporting.
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/23/16 08:57 PM
This was vomited by Carl Palladino, co-chair of Trump's campaign in NY.



So, when do the gloves come off?
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/30/16 10:48 AM


American nouveau riche trash:

Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/30/16 07:04 PM


Mormon Tabernacle Singer Quits Before Inauguration Performance: I can't 'throw roses to Hitler'
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 12/30/16 09:28 PM
As we get closer to the reality of a Trump Presidency, I become more convinced of its inevitable disaster. I Don't know how bad it will get, but I can't see any good in it.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/31/16 10:46 AM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
As we get closer to the reality of a Trump Presidency, I become more convinced of its inevitable disaster. I Don't know how bad it will get, but I can't see any good in it.

It's not going to be good. It will be a conservatives wet dream: Defunding the National School Lunch Program, getting rid of federal overtime rules - you know the stuff the middle class depend on.

If Trump really does eliminate the NSLP and federal overtime rules - the aholes who voted for Trump will get what they deserve. mad
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/31/16 12:50 PM
Trump supporters are neither federal employees nor primary school attendees. The changes would be directed at liberals and Trump supporters do not care what liberals think.
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 12/31/16 04:47 PM
Too broad a generalization. Trump found support in just about every class. The ideological division is imposed so as to keep the underclass in its place.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/31/16 07:48 PM

Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 12/31/16 10:23 PM
We have 20 more days of adult leadership, then the White House becomes Romper Room, but without an adult host. The Trump cabinet is, objectively, the least prepared or professional in our nation's history. npr. What a way to start a year!
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 12/31/16 11:08 PM
Juvenile delinquent Romper Room.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/02/17 10:00 AM


Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 01/02/17 02:35 PM
Rick, you have 19 days to cut that out. wink
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 01/02/17 05:31 PM
I still say there is room in political forums for satire, even cartoons which lampoon elected officials. It IS a time honored duty of journalism.
The Emperor has no clothes? It is the duty of journalists and political forums to point that out.
Barring that, we're left with the honesty of children, which is noble, but the downside is, the elected officials can merely point to the notion that "children should be seen and not heard."

Jerry Murrel on FACEBOOK
The Washington Post

Quote:
"New York Times Executive Editor Dean Baquet has come closer to getting this right, pointing out that we must label Trump’s lies as such because he has shown a willingness to go beyond the “normal sort of obfuscation that politicians traffic in.” Writer Masha Gessen has gone even further, suggesting that Trump’s approach to information — or disinformation — looks like a hallmark of Putinesque autocratic rule, in which the autocrat is trying to “assert power over truth itself,” and convey the message that his “power lies in being able to say what he wants.”' -Greg Sargent

The Plum LineOpinion
Yes, Donald Trump ‘lies.’ A lot. And news organizations should say so.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 01/02/17 05:58 PM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I'm getting a little pissed of with all the media equation of high IQ with the Aspie spectrum. These are two separate things. Most people with high IQs are perfectly functional in the social aspects of their lives. Some people with mild Asperger's are very good at concentrating on one specific topic (which apparently the general population has a hard time doing) so they seem to be very intelligent, but usually they are not very good at all on social interaction..


Agreed, and you've put a very well placed finger on me, Jeffery Haas.
I can learn ANY editing software in maybe twenty minutes, figure out ANY camera in five minutes, but I am having extreme difficulty housebreaking our new Labrador puppy!

The thing is, I know my limitations.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/02/17 06:36 PM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Rick, you have 19 days to cut that out. wink

I know... smile
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 01/02/17 07:19 PM
Yes, I think that there will need to be careful consideration on how we treat the "Trump Phenomenon" in the upcoming years. I think there is room for satire, including visual satire, and the ability to stay within the rules of the forum. Although I joked with Rick, I find myself skirting the edges of propriety as well. Honestly, I'm not sure that his particular picture is necessarily out-of-bounds, either, because the focus is as much on Putin as Trump. Freedom of expression is important. I think the focus, though, has to be on OUR decorum, not Trump's, or we will be down the rabbithole in a jiffy. Trump would never make it on the Rant.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/02/17 10:09 PM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Yes, I think that there will need to be careful consideration on how we treat the "Trump Phenomenon" in the upcoming years. I think there is room for satire, including visual satire, and the ability to stay within the rules of the forum. Although I joked with Rick, I find myself skirting the edges of propriety as well. Honestly, I'm not sure that his particular picture is necessarily out-of-bounds, either, because the focus is as much on Putin as Trump. Freedom of expression is important. I think the focus, though, has to be on OUR decorum, not Trump's, or we will be down the rabbithole in a jiffy. Trump would never make it on the Rant.

I sincerely appreciate the rules here at Reader Rant with the effort to be respectful to public officials. My personal point-of-view is that respect is earned, not given.

Trump has not in any way earned ANY respect what-so-ever, ergo the conundrum that I face. Hmm I don't consider simply running for POTUS a respect earning endeavor - AND because 60m idiots voted for you. mad

Also too, I appreciate descent, a lot. smile
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/03/17 09:11 PM


Trump shoots his big, fat, mouth off - and is wrong AGAIN. Quelle surprise. coffee




GM replies:

Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/04/17 10:11 AM

Once again, the tiny-hand Orange Man™ is caught in a lie:


Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/08/17 06:28 AM

Who's paying for the wall?!

MEXICO!
Mexico.
Mexic
Mexi
Mex
Me.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/08/17 12:56 PM
didn't you listen to Rep from Fl who stated several times when asked, Mr Trump will negotiate with Mexico and get them to pay for it. I mean the guy sounded like he was mesmerized - Mr Trump will get it done - there is no doubt

I suppose he could through EO stop all trade between Mexico & US (>$500B) ... not sure who would be affected worse but sounds like a good start pointing to economic disaster
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 01/08/17 01:06 PM
Trump will get Mexico to pay for it by "negotiating" via Twitter - he'll bash Mexico for shipping Ford jobs to the U.S. and when their stock drops he'll make his move for concessions.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 01/10/17 12:29 AM
This is hilarious!!
Posted By: Phil Hoskins Re: Trump Forum - 01/10/17 04:49 AM
It seems to me Trump is just exactly what he has been all these years -- a cheat who will do nd say anything to get what he wants. He thinks we mortals are too dumb to deal with him and he will do what he wants, believing we will let him.It is really a game to him. He is a soulless scum of the earth.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/10/17 10:25 AM
Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins
It seems to me Trump is just exactly what he has been all these years -- a cheat who will do nd say anything to get what he wants. He thinks we mortals are too dumb to deal with him and he will do what he wants, believing we will let him.It is really a game to him. He is a soulless scum of the earth.

Indeed, nominating his son-in-law for a WH position contrary to a 1967 law saying that can't be done.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 01/10/17 03:12 PM
I know this is a political forum, but here is a different look, from a whole different angle, at President-elect Trump.

and some think political hacks can be vicious...

Trump Grill Could Be the Worst Restaurant in America a Vanity Fair article

Maybe this belongs in the Humor section...
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/10/17 05:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Ujest Shurly
I know this is a political forum, but here is a different look, from a whole different angle, at President-elect Trump.

and some think political hacks can be vicious...

Trump Grill Could Be the Worst Restaurant in America a Vanity Fair article

Maybe this belongs in the Humor section...

What's so funny about a business man whose every business turns to shyte and fails and who is about to run our Country?
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 01/11/17 01:48 AM
I liked the quote: "Trump is a poor person's idea of rich."

Actual rich people are not reality show hosts who self-promote constantly. Most of them you don't even know their names, unless you are researching a Forbes richest people article. And they go to great lengths to keep it that way.

There are very good reasons for that. For one, adoration by fans is way more trouble than it is worth. For another, they don't want their children kidnapped.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 01/11/17 03:16 AM
The big buzz is that Putin has some compromising under-age hooker Golden Shower video of Trump during one of his many visits to Saint Petersburg. Trump tried to bribe his way into some real estate deals but when that didn't work, he spent some time with local hookers. Apparently all photographed by the Russian intelligence people, because that's just what they do.

Buzzfeed also has some documents about extensive meetings between Trump representatives and Russian intelligence over the years. Trump is way, way compromised.

Actually, not so surprising. Trump did tell the naked Miss Teen USA contestants "I've seen all of this before." Who knew he was literally telling the truth?
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 01/11/17 03:53 AM
ROTFMOL

Bring it on!
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 01/11/17 06:22 AM
Sad thing is. That won’t stop his fans. If Putin shat upon his head they would be cheering!!
I can hear it now!!
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/11/17 09:36 AM
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
Sad thing is. That won’t stop his fans. If Putin shat upon his head they would be cheering!!
I can hear it now!!

Scat is a far cry from a 'golden shower.' coffee
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/11/17 10:48 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
The big buzz is that Putin has some compromising under-age hooker Golden Shower video of Trump during one of his many visits to Saint Petersburg. Trump tried to bribe his way into some real estate deals but when that didn't work, he spent some time with local hookers. Apparently all photographed by the Russian intelligence people, because that's just what they do.

Buzzfeed also has some documents about extensive meetings between Trump representatives and Russian intelligence over the years. Trump is way, way compromised.

Actually, not so surprising. Trump did tell the naked Miss Teen USA contestants "I've seen all of this before." Who knew he was literally telling the truth?

Apparently, Mother Jones' David Corn got the goods. You remember good ol' David - he's the one that released the video of Romney talking about us 48-percenters in May 2012 at that private dinner.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/11/17 11:07 AM

Weather Channel reporting (Golden) Showers on 01/20/17 @ noon in DC.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 01/11/17 12:38 PM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
The big buzz is that Putin has some compromising under-age hooker Golden Shower video of Trump during one of his many visits to Saint Petersburg. Trump tried to bribe his way into some real estate deals but when that didn't work, he spent some time with local hookers. Apparently all photographed by the Russian intelligence people, because that's just what they do.

Chikileaks...
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 01/12/17 01:54 AM
David Corn has done a lot more than that, and I pretty much respect all of his work.
Posted By: matthew Re: Trump Forum - 01/12/17 02:12 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I liked the quote: "Trump is a poor person's idea of rich."

Actual rich people are not reality show hosts who self-promote constantly. Most of them you don't even know their names, unless you are researching a Forbes richest people article. And they go to great lengths to keep it that way.

There are very good reasons for that. For one, adoration by fans is way more trouble than it is worth. For another, they don't want their children kidnapped.


Very, very true. Trump has outraged his fellow billionaires by revealing what subhuman filth humans turn into when they have more money than is good for them.
.
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 01/12/17 05:01 AM
Sr. Rick:

You visit many far right sites in your internet travels. What’s their general vibe on Trump these days? Are they loving him or are there grumblings? Of course it is early in the game and he hasn’t even been crowned real POTUS yet, but I am curious as to their take on His Majesty-Dictator.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/12/17 09:37 AM
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
Sr. Rick:

You visit many far right sites in your internet travels. What’s their general vibe on Trump these days? Are they loving him or are there grumblings? Of course it is early in the game and he hasn’t even been crowned real POTUS yet, but I am curious as to their take on His Majesty-Dictator.

As Trump said a year ago: I could shoot someone on 5th AV and not lose supporters.

Things haven't changed. They love their Cheetos Jesus™ - he can do no wrong in their eyes.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 01/12/17 09:38 AM
Quote:
subhuman filth humans turn into when they have more money than is good for them


Quoth the poor person! I think that is a bit overstated. I think you meant "can" turn into. Rich people can be rich for all sorts of reasons, and only some of them involve screwing the other guys. Others can lead very quite lives not screwing anybody. and then you can have the Bill Gates and Warren Buffets of the world too. It's actually easy to be altruistic when you have way more than you need.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 01/12/17 02:10 PM
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
What’s their general vibe on Trump these days? Are they loving him or are there grumblings? Of course it is early in the game and he hasn’t even been crowned real POTUS yet, but I am curious as to their take on His Majesty-Dictator.

The non-cons do defend Trump with vigor and an impressive lack of rationality when confronted by their "enemies" on the left. But when they feel safe talking among themselves, their support is a bit shaky. The main sentiment is that they "won" a major battle against the left and love to raise the middle finger banner, but they have no coherent, actionable policy issues that they are rallying behind. In other words, they have no idea what they, or Trump, are doing. Chaos is what they wanted, chaos is what we are getting.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/12/17 04:16 PM
i am not so sure what you said is valid, for instance

it is true conservatives have their victory (sort of) and for that they are compelled to defend Mr Trump ... it is the reality and does not matter if in private they abhor him ... remember they have a backup ultra conservative president in waiting

they have a coherent strategic goal i.e. turn back, repeal, abrogate, etc everything any liberal has ever done. The problem is how they want to frak Americans.

The social agenda is certainly a point by point refutation of everything liberal and Constitutional ... they will succeed in imposing a de facto theocracy

Entitlements are on the plate and the craving knife is being sharpened. Military spending will be increased at the expense of entitlements.

2nd amendment will be expanded (hyperbolicly) so every new born baby will have an Uzi in their hands at birth.

Obamacare will be gutted and the states will enact their own version (the conservative magical thinking at work) with some help from federal laws i.e. cross state, torts etc

If all of Mr Trump's cabinet picks get confirmed we will have a de facto plutocracy with the corollary kleptocracy.

Now what chaos is it of which you speak? the results of their plans or the plans itself?
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 01/12/17 04:30 PM
Ah, but you are talking about the "professional" faction of conservatives... the standard sheepleconservative is who I described - the bulk of the Trump voters.

I do fear Pence much more, he is of the pro class and I agree that they have the agenda you outlined. Trump and chaos is much preferable to Pence and The Borg.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/12/17 06:46 PM
yes i agree .... i see a lot of granularity among the Republicans with some overlapping of agendas

the professionals as you call them speak with forked tongue ... it is hard to get any of them to speak honestly about anything

by and large the street conservatives are easily manipulated and after 30 years of the constant barrage of propaganda I don;t see a way of changing their minds

i suppose getting rational folks out to vote will be the ploy but how to light that fire? another Obama? Sanders?

is there a message which will appeal broadly across all demos?
Posted By: matthew Re: Trump Forum - 01/12/17 09:26 PM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
subhuman filth humans turn into when they have more money than is good for them


Quoth the poor person! I think that is a bit overstated. I think you meant "can" turn into. Rich people can be rich for all sorts of reasons, and only some of them involve screwing the other guys. Others can lead very quite lives not screwing anybody. and then you can have the Bill Gates and Warren Buffets of the world too. It's actually easy to be altruistic when you have way more than you need.

How many billionaires are there denouncing Trump?

crickets
.
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 01/13/17 11:24 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
subhuman filth humans turn into when they have more money than is good for them


Quoth the poor person! I think that is a bit overstated. I think you meant "can" turn into. Rich people can be rich for all sorts of reasons, and only some of them involve screwing the other guys. Others can lead very quite lives not screwing anybody. and then you can have the Bill Gates and Warren Buffets of the world too. It's actually easy to be altruistic when you have way more than you need.


Ignorance of the system that made them rich does not constitute a defense. The mechanism (no matter how "nice" you think they are) is based on exploitation. So yes, they are ALL screwing people.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 01/13/17 01:49 PM
Trump promises report on Russian hacking within 90 days

Monica Crowley will write it and the Chief of the Ministry of Propaganda (Kellyanne Goebbels) will edit it.
Posted By: Ezekiel Re: Trump Forum - 01/13/17 03:34 PM
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Trump promises report on Russian hacking within 90 days

Monica Crowley will write it and the Chief of the Ministry of Propaganda (Kellyanne Goebbels) will edit it.


Maybe Crowley will plagiarize Putin this time? She'll need a keyboard with Cyrillic characters though.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 01/13/17 07:18 PM
Wally Hayman
"When the Morlock and the Eloi Become Indistinguishable"
Facebook

Quote:
How many of us really understand the series of errors that drove us all to this fateful point? Certainly not those Rust Belt Trump voters interviewed by the New York Times who remain undisturbed by proof of the steady and bulk diet of misinformation fed to them like pigs at a trough - and by a hostile foreign power, no less. Voters so transfixed by the shiny object that they never noticed the hazardous turn ahead nor experienced that oft-mentioned moment of slow motion a victim perceives in that milisecond when their entire life flashes before them. And certainly not the Hillary-haters on the left whose self-fulfilling prophesy of Democratic doom was born from information likewise pointed at them by the same immense Russian propaganda machine. They still claim to be no more than innocent passengers in a vehicle totally controlled by others. Those who didn't vote believe themselves the most innocent of the lot.


Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/13/17 08:16 PM
I predict (and you may have already had this in mind) the report will exonerate the Russians and lay blame on everyone from my next door neighbor (meaning me) to Martians. The CIA will become the new foreign policy propaganda arm for the greatest president of all time.

If the CIA wants to present a report, Mr Trump will tell them what to say.
Posted By: Golem Re: Trump Forum - 01/14/17 11:36 PM
Donald J. Trump: Not my candidate but my president

Doug McIntyre
Los Angeles Daily News
January 14, 2017

Quote:
This week our country gets a new president, our 45th, Donald J. Trump.

Many people spark to Mr. Trump's blunt "If you hit me I hit back twice as hard" style. They find him refreshing.

I don't find Donald Trump refreshing.

I think he's the most ill-prepared and ill-suited person ever elevated to the office. With that said, I hope he turns out to be as "amazing", "fantastic", "terrific", "awesome", and "really, really, really good" as he claims he will be.

I don't root for presidents to fail.

I didn't root for George W. Bush to fail or Barack Obama. I'm not going to root for Donald J. Trump to fail. If I cut off my nose my glasses fall on the floor. They're no good to me down there. He was not my candidate, but like it or not, he is my president.

And that worries me greatly.

More
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 01/15/17 01:42 AM
It's very difficult to blame it all on stupidity rather than malice, but most of it is. Try to feel sorry for his supporters because we already knew he was a conman. The have years of disillusionment to face, and they will most likely be hit the hardest by his actions.
Posted By: Golem Re: Trump Forum - 01/15/17 05:48 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S65jqrHQi_c
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 01/16/17 06:36 AM
My son raised a really great idea he'd seen on the Internet. I one-upped him. He said I have to post this: imagine on January 18, Barack Obama resigns, passing the Presidency to z hour Biden as #45. (All the history books have to changed, as well as the inaugural process...) THEN, on the 19th, after issuing a series of new executive ordersummary, Biden resigns, padding the baton to... Paul Ryan. On Inauguration Day, PAUL RYAN is forced to relinquish the presidency to Donald Trump. Wouldn't that be rich?? Well worth two extra numbers... Biden 45, Ryan 46, Trump 47.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 01/16/17 01:40 PM
Trump outs Brennen as the 15 year old hooker he enjoyed while on "business" in Russia:

Quote:
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 13h13 hours ago
.@FoxNews "Outgoing CIA Chief, John Brennan, blasts Pres-Elect Trump on Russia threat. Does not fully understand." Oh really, couldn't do...

...much worse - just look at Syria (red line), Crimea, Ukraine and the build-up of Russian nukes. Not good! Was this the leaker of Fake News?
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/16/17 03:57 PM
So the Speaker has to grovel before Mr Trump ... ok

What if sources have been confirmed as reliable and allegations of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia are proven highly likely before 20 Jan ... Trump Tower is cordoned off ... [make up your own ending]
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 01/16/17 07:36 PM
What does anyone here make of Trump's recent statement:

Quote:
President-elect Donald Trump said in a weekend interview that he is nearing completion of a plan to replace President Obama’s signature health-care law with the goal of “insurance for everybody,” while also vowing to force drug companies to negotiate directly with the government on prices in Medicare and Medicaid.

Any there any there there? Is it going to be beautiful-fabulous-best ever? Or happen at all?

Insurance for everybody? Every body ---dead or alive? Stay tuned folks, it should be nteresting......
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 01/16/17 08:02 PM
Insurance for everyone, lower cost, lower deductibles, no pre-existing conditions, coverage until 26 under parents. This is only going to happen in Trump's fantasy land. The economics just don't work unless you seriously screw somebody.

Everything he is claiming says we don't screw the patients, but if you screw doctors there won't be as many doctors. If you screw insurance companies, they get out of the business. Hospitals fold and close their doors. Drug companies are the only one left and you can only screw them so much. Besides they have several pet Congressmen.

Where does the money come from? Massive government debt?
Posted By: jgw Re: Trump Forum - 01/16/17 10:08 PM
We just have to wait until he gets sworn in. Until then, who knows? He tends to change his mind a bit and when he says something is going to happen ("I know something and you will too, in 2 days, a week, sometime) it never does. Most everybody he has put up for this or that don't agree with much Trump says so, again, who knows? Trump, as far as I can tell, is the mysterious president elect. I fully expect the curtain to be pulled back next week?
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/16/17 10:46 PM
LOL .... the curtain has never been closed .... just some folks never realized it
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 01/16/17 11:31 PM
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
What does anyone here make of Trump's recent statement:

What I make of it is the Trump is getting the vibe that folks don't like him too much, what with all the bad press he has been getting. So how do you make people like you? Especially when you are the King? You give 'em stuff!

He probably doesn't have any idea about the economics or the politics, he just wants more people to say nice things about how great he is.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/17/17 07:57 PM

In other news, Trump is taking the weekend off...pro'lly exhaustion - or just rich guy laziness. coffee

‘My Day One is Gonna be Monday’: Trump to Take Weekend Off After Inauguration
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/17/17 08:25 PM
in Mr Trump's world, everything starts and stops on his command .... in the real world time waits for no man
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/18/17 10:03 AM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
in Mr Trump's world, everything starts and stops on his command .... in the real world time waits for no man

Ol' lazy ass is going to wait until day four to destroy America. coffee
Posted By: Kaine Re: Trump Forum - 01/18/17 12:46 PM
Originally Posted By: pdx rick

In other news, Trump is taking the weekend off...pro'lly exhaustion - or just rich guy laziness. coffee

‘My Day One is Gonna be Monday’: Trump to Take Weekend Off After Inauguration


WOW! I had to Google this to try to find if it is fake news. There are many results found.

I have never heard of a president who did this before. I wonder if he'll have every weekend off? I wonder if he gets holidays off too. I guess he'll be our first part-time president.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 01/18/17 01:10 PM
Originally Posted By: Kaine
I have never heard of a president who did this before. I wonder if he'll have every weekend off? I wonder if he gets holidays off too. I guess he'll be our first part-time president.

Being president, and being CEO of the Trump Organization are both part time gigs for the Greatest Man in the World... nobody else could do both at once, but Trump could do it with his brain cell tied behind his back.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/18/17 02:45 PM
I am glad to see you have finally come around and recognized just how GREAAAAAAAT he is.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/18/17 06:57 PM

The rich guy pro'lly thinks it's a 9 to 5, Monday thru Friday job, with Reagan naps in the afternoon - plus those CEO 2 hour lunches. Hmm

..and oh! Gotta have those pee parties on the weekends. Tiring! coffee
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/18/17 07:02 PM


On the first two days he rested. On the 4th day, he looked upon his pathetic non-working weekend, and rested again 'til Thursday. When waking Thursday, refreshed from his tiring busy week, he saw Camp David, and saw that it was not good: This place is so boring after looking at it for 30 minutes. His Administration then sold it to his kids to build a terrific hotel and even greater golf course and the monies from the sale went to build 'The Wall.'

Quote:
Look upon my works, you losers, and despair. Or whatever. Look, what I've done is so good and classy. It's tremendous."

-DJT
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 01/19/17 11:24 PM
You can't make this stuff up.
MSNBC just broadcast "Pershing's Own" United States Army Marching Band playing "The Liberty Bell", which any comedy fan knows as the opening theme song to Monty Python's Flying Circus.
They're mocking President-elect Donald Trump, and he doesn't have a clue!
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 01/20/17 06:24 AM
I think The Three Stooges theme song should be quite popular for the next four years as well. Or at least as long as he lasts.
Posted By: Spag-hetti Re: Trump Forum - 01/20/17 06:45 PM


Best Protest Signs from Trump's Inauguration
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 01/20/17 07:12 PM
That says a lot...
Posted By: Golem Re: Trump Forum - 01/20/17 07:17 PM
Transcript of President Donald John Trump Inauguration Speech, January 20, 2017

Chief Justice Roberts, President Carter, President Clinton, President Bush, President Obama, fellow Americans and people of the world, thank you.

We, the citizens of America, are now joined in a great national effort to rebuild our country and restore its promise for all of our people.

Together, we will determine the course of America and the world for many, many years to come. We will face challenges. We will confront hardships. But we will get the job done.

Every four years we gather on these steps to carry out the orderly and peaceful transfer of power.

And we are grateful to President Obama and first lady Michelle Obama for their gracious aid throughout this transition.

They have been magnificent.

Thank you.

Today's ceremony, however, has a very special meaning because today we are not merely transferring power from one administration to another or from one party to another, but we are transferring power from Washington, D.C., and giving it back to you, the people.

For too long, a small group in our nation's capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have bore the cost. Washington flourished, but the people did not share in its wealth. Politicians prospered but the jobs left and the factories closed.

The establishment protected itself, but not the citizens of our country. Their victories have not been your victories. Their triumphs have not been your triumphs. And while they celebrated in our nation's capital, there was little to celebrate for struggling families all across our land.

That all changes starting right here and right now, because this moment is your moment.

It belongs to you.

It belongs to everyone gathered here today and everyone watching all across America.

This is your day.

This is your celebration.

And this, the United States of America, is your country.

What truly matters is not which party controls our government, but whether our government is controlled by the people.

January 20th, 2017, will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again.

The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer. Everyone is listening to you now. You came by the tens of millions to become part of a historic movement, the likes of which the world has never seen before.

At the center of this movement is a crucial conviction that a nation exists to serve its citizens. Americans want great schools for their children, safe neighborhoods for their families and good jobs for themselves.

These are just and reasonable demands of righteous people and a righteous public.

But for too many of our citizens, a different reality exists.

Mothers and children trapped in poverty in our inner cities, rusted out factories scattered like tombstones across the landscape of our nation.

An education system flush with cash but which leaves our young and beautiful students deprived of all knowledge.

And the crime and the gangs and the drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential. This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.

We are one nation, and their pain is our pain.

Their dreams are our dreams, and their success will be our success. We share one heart, one home and one glorious destiny.

The oath of office I take today is an oath of allegiance to all Americans.

For many decades we've enriched foreign industry at the expense of American industry, subsidized the armies of other countries while allowing for the very sad depletion of our military.

We've defended other nations' borders while refusing to defend our own. And we've spent trillions and trillions of dollars overseas while America's infrastructure has fallen into disrepair and decay.

We've made other countries rich while the wealth, strength and confidence of our country has dissipated over the horizon.

One by one, the factories shuttered and left our shores with not even a thought about the millions and millions of American workers that were left behind.

The wealth of our middle class has been ripped from their homes and then redistributed all across the world. But that is the past, and now we are looking only to the future.

We assembled here today are issuing a new decree to be heard in every city, in every foreign capital and in every hall of power. From this day forward, a new vision will govern our land.

From this day forward, it's going to be only America first, America first. Every decision on trade, on taxes, on immigration, on foreign affairs will be made to benefit American workers and American families. We must protect our borders from the ravages of other countries making our product, stealing our companies and destroying our jobs.

Protection will lead to great prosperity and strength. I will fight for you with every breath in my body, and I will never ever let you down.

America will start winning again, winning like never before.

We will bring back our jobs.

We will bring back our borders.

We will bring back our wealth, and we will bring back our dreams.

We will build new roads and highways and bridges and airports and tunnels and railways all across our wonderful nation.

We will get our people off of welfare and back to work, rebuilding our country with American hands and American labor.

We will follow two simple rules: Buy American and hire American.

We will seek friendship and goodwill with the nations of the world, but we do so with the understanding that it is the right of all nations to put their own interests first.

We do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone, but rather to let it shine as an example.

We will shine for everyone to follow.

We will re-enforce old alliances and form new ones and unite the civilized world against radical Islamic terrorism, which we will eradicate completely from the face of the earth.

At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America, and through our loyalty to our country we will rediscover our loyalty to each other.

When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.

The Bible tells us how good and pleasant it is when God's people live together in unity. We must speak our minds openly, debate our disagreements honestly, but always pursue solidarity. When America is united, America is totally unstoppable. There should be no fear. We are protected and we will always be protected. We will be protected by the great men and women of our military and law enforcement. And most importantly, we will be protected by God.

Finally, we must think big and dream even bigger. In America, we understand that a nation is only living as long as it is striving. We will no longer accept politicians who are all talk and no action, constantly complaining but never doing anything about it.

The time for empty talk is over. Now arrives the hour of action.

Do not allow anyone to tell you that it cannot be done. No challenge can match the heart and fight and spirit of America. We will not fail. Our country will thrive and prosper again.

We stand at the birth of a new millennium, ready to unlock the mysteries of space, to free the earth from the miseries of disease, and to harness the energies, industries and technologies of tomorrow.

A new national pride will stir ourselves, lift our sights and heal our divisions. It's time to remember that old wisdom our soldiers will never forget, that whether we are black or brown or white, we all bleed the same red blood of patriots.

We all enjoy the same glorious freedoms and we all salute the same great American flag.

And whether a child is born in the urban sprawl of Detroit or the windswept plains of Nebraska, they look up at the same night sky, they fill their heart with the same dreams and they are infused with the breath of life by the same almighty creator.

So to all Americans in every city near and far, small and large, from mountain to mountain, from ocean to ocean, hear these words: You will never be ignored again. Your voice, your hopes and your dreams will define our American destiny. And your courage and goodness and love will forever guide us along the way.

Together we will make America strong again, we will make America wealthy again, we will make America proud again, we will make America safe again.

And, yes, together we will make America great again.

Thank you.

God bless you.

And God bless America.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 01/20/17 07:31 PM
Trump has appointed only 29 of 660 positions, the slowest rate of any modern President. At this rate, he will not have filled those positions at the end of four years. He has retained more Obama appointees than he has named. So, there is hope.
Posted By: Golem Re: Trump Forum - 01/20/17 07:59 PM
Length of Inaugural Addresses
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 01/20/17 09:19 PM
Words Donald Trump used for first time in inaugural address.

I read that Trump wrote his own address. I believe it. It read like an unprepared high school student cribbing heavily and trying to sound profound. It was awful.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/20/17 09:23 PM
I think Sean Spicer was refuting you as you typed. Positions are being filled yah-da-yah-da.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/20/17 09:28 PM
He was not speaking to or for intellectual giants. He was speaking to his supporters and they probably thought it was on par with Kennedy's Inaugural Speech.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 01/20/17 09:46 PM
Trump's speech, annotated by NPR correspondents (polite fact-checking):

Speech
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 01/20/17 11:30 PM
Depression is setting in.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/21/17 05:42 PM
be of good cheer ... in the grand scheme of things, we are well on our way to the dark dystopian future Mr Trump paints as the present ... when we arrive we can say (as Farina did) we've been down so long it looks like up to us wink

Robert Reich claims a Republican friend told him, Republicans will acquiesce to all of Mr Trumps agenda (as long as it coincides with theirs) and when they get their agenda passed, they will dump him for Pence

I don't think it will happen as they have committed to Mr Trump by allowing the complete collapse of any ethical standards in government ... what could they say? o we were wrong then but had an epiphany?
Posted By: Phil Hoskins Re: Trump Forum - 01/21/17 06:33 PM
Watching hundreds of thousands around the nation and world in the Women's marches gives me some hope that we will survive this too.

I think we will have to suffer through the raping of our culture in favor trickle down bulls$#t but in the long run we will rise toward national health.

At least that is what I am telling myself watching the demonstrations,
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 01/21/17 07:33 PM
ThumbsUp
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 01/21/17 07:45 PM
It has been argued, by someone I respect greatly, that Donald Trump - now President Trump - is not quite the BSer I perceive him to be, but that he is so divorced from reality that he doesn't recognize the utter falsity of his statements. That he merely says what he truly believes, whether there is any substance to it whatever. I cannot accept his premise. He is too skilled at manipulating others to be doing it unintentionally. I think he has set out from the beginning to deceive everyone he can, and that he views his election as his ultimate con. Now that he occupies the oval office, I am curious how far he will push the scam. I believe he will go very, very far. The GOP Congress will never know what hit them, because they've been so preoccupied with their own power grab. TOGETHER they will do incalculable damage.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 01/21/17 08:05 PM
Trump polling approval ratings of 37% and 32% just before the inauguration.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/21/17 08:19 PM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Words Donald Trump used for first time in inaugural address.

I read that Trump wrote his own address. I believe it. It read like an unprepared high school student cribbing heavily and trying to sound profound. It was awful.

There was a part about education and how kids are "deprived of all knowledge."

Even a moron would agree that if a kid went to public school through 12th grade, the kid had to learn something.

The person who seems to be "deprived of all knowledge" is President* Trump - he seems not to know what he's talking about - or how to run a country of 310m people.

Hmm , rolleyes
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/21/17 08:46 PM


President* Trump, as it turns out, lied to CNN about writing his Inaugural Speech. As reported by The Wall Street Journal, advisers Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon were responsible for much of the speech:

Quote:
Much of the speech was written by Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon, two of Mr. Trump’s top advisers, a White House official said.

“I don’t think we’ve had a speech like that since Andrew Jackson came to the White House,” said Mr. Bannon, Mr. Trump’s chief strategist and senior counselor. “It’s got a deep, deep root of patriotism.”


Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/21/17 09:09 PM


My favorite sign from today's anti-Trump march:



Super Callous Fascist Racist Extra Braggadocious
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/21/17 09:26 PM

So apparently, we are to look at Andrew Jackson, to figure out what Trump is all about.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 01/21/17 10:14 PM
Quote:
Andrew Jackson

So the National Guard is going to round up all the illegals and march them barefoot in the snow to Oklahoma?
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/22/17 05:13 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
Andrew Jackson

So the National Guard is going to round up all the illegals and march them barefoot in the snow to Oklahoma?

That, and Trump is a "Populist President."
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 01/22/17 07:03 PM
Quote:
Andrew Jackson


Jackson claimed to be a populist, too. Founder of the Democratic Party, military leader at The Battle of New Orleans, but he also owned lots of slaves. And every time I look at a 20 dollar bill, I think of The Trail of Tears.

Funny how history remembers people. Trump should take note: How many people do you want lining up to piss on your grave?
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 01/22/17 09:24 PM
I'm feeling more optimistic, today. It's been 48 hours and we aren't engaged in an international nuclear conflagration! The press excoriated Spicer and Conway for flat out lying. NYT: "False Claims" NBC: "Falsehoods" and CNN even used the word "Lie"; so did the Washington Post: "Whether you like Trump or not, it's demonstrably true that he says things that are easily proved false, over and over again. The question the media has regularly confronted is not whether Trump's facts are correct but whether to say he's deliberately lying or not."
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 01/22/17 09:33 PM
He could be pissing them off enough now for the gloves to come off. What's to lose?
Posted By: jgw Re: Trump Forum - 01/22/17 10:07 PM
I think Kellyanne explained it pretty well this Sunday. If there seems to be a conflict of what most of us would consider to be, at the very least, untrue the Trump team sees as an "alternate truth". This, apparently, means that there is objective fact, and wishful thinking out loud, and they both have the same truth value.

We live in strange times............
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/22/17 10:21 PM
I am fairly certain Mr Trump is not smart enough to concoct a plan which involves future machinations to bring about some desired goal.

He reacts without thinking of any consequences.

One possibility which appears to be brewing is to limit media coverage to selected sycophantic friendly organizations. Think Breitbart with 140 word articles or Axios but not CNN or etc.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/22/17 10:32 PM
Quote:
international nuclear conflagration

Not even the greatest person who ever lived, otherwise known as Mr Trump, could change the inertia of global events that fast.

However, he is working in that direction. I am sure PM Netanyahu is encouraging Mr Trump (and all the unpaid allied agents of Israel in Congress) to move the US embassy to Jerusalem in anticipation of the Israeli move to annex the city (facts on the ground). In addition, I am sure PM Netanyahu is calling on Mr trump to allow an Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear facilities, disregarding JCPOA.

Either or both will ensure the US becomes a pariah in the world, if not ensuring not just rising tensions in the ME but possibly perpetual continuous war.

Of course with his linear one dimensional thinking, if he becomes an ally with Russia, it is implicit we would become allies with Iran and Syria. How complicated would it become? Putin calls one minute and says do not attack Iran, Netanyahu calls the next and says attack Iran, what would Mr Trump do? Call Ivanka for advice?

Your nightmare still has possibilities.
Posted By: Phil Hoskins Re: Trump Forum - 01/23/17 01:09 AM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I am fairly certain Mr Trump is not smart enough to concoct a plan which involves future machinations to bring about some desired goal.

He reacts without thinking of any consequences.


I doubt that Mr. Trump is dumb, except in the way even the smartest manipulator is likely to get caught up in an "alternative fact" such that all their cleverness and conniving hides the truck before it hits one.

He is so far been successful eluding harsh consequences by using his mouth the insist the sun rises in the west and selling that alternate reality.

With so many adversaries, he is going to get into a situation that he cannot bullcrap his way out of. Pray we survive it.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/23/17 02:43 AM

President* Trump won't be releasing his taxes anytime soon. Wikileaks is asking for whistle=blower help:

Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/23/17 02:44 AM

President* Trump continues his daily lying.

#ImpeachAndReplace
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/23/17 04:52 AM
Quote:
I doubt that Mr. Trump is dumb

I suspect he is a uni-directional one dimensional thinker ... examples

taking Russia as an ally ... does he realize Russia is allied with Iran and Syria? How does it work that he could ally with one and not the others? Israel is an enemy of Iran. If Mr Trump allows the Israelis to bomb Iran does that affect his alliance with Russia? If Mr Trump moves the US embassy to Jerusalem does he realize all our ME allies may drop any support against ISIS? Even worse they may acquire nuclear weapons.

Now a real thinker, someone with real intelligence would have figured this out. Someone with limited capabilities would have bumped the china cabinet and will end up buying the whole shop. Which one is Mr Trump?
Posted By: Kaine Re: Trump Forum - 01/23/17 12:25 PM
Originally Posted By: rporter314

One possibility which appears to be brewing is to limit media coverage to selected sycophantic friendly organizations. Think Breitbart with 140 word articles or Axios but not CNN or etc.

Control the press - I believe that is one of the steps to fascism isn't it? State run media.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 01/23/17 08:08 PM
The question of the day is: Who is the Trump Administration's chief propagandist? Is it Sean Spicer, the Press Secretary who trotted out a series of outright lies, easily disprovable, about the size of the inaugural crowd because his boss had complained about it earlier? Sean Spicer’s Rant About Inauguration Crowds Is Packed with Falsehoods - RedState. Is it Kellyanne Conway, his "special advisor" who tried to excuse this behavior as presenting "Alternative Facts"? Trump Aide Says Press Secretary Presented ‘Alternative Facts’ - Bloomberg. Is it his Chief of Staff, who literally declared war on the press for pointing out reality? White House vows to fight media 'tooth and nail' over Trump attacks - Reuters. Or Steve Bannon, who apparently co-wrote the inaugural speech? White House Concedes That Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller Wrote Much of Trump’s Speech - Mediaite. Or, perhaps, it is Donald Trump himself, who, in the course of 48 hours has continued his habit of self-aggrandizing prevarication unprecedented in US Presidential history? e.g., claiming to have written his inaugural speech himself, claiming to have the largest inaugural crowd ever, claiming that he hadn't personally attacked the intelligence community, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum. The chutzpah is amazing.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/23/17 09:44 PM
Quote:
moves the US embassy to Jerusalem

thankfully rational voices have temporarily prevailed as Spicer walked it back until it is a process

this is somewhat encouraging
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 01/24/17 05:10 AM
Hello:

Please watch tonight’s 01/22/2017 American Greed on CNBC (if you don’t have it please find it) and tell me your takes/Observations.

Funny/disturbing stuff. Very close to “home”.

Was that by design?....????
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/26/17 10:38 AM

Hey! Why is it when you type the word " a s s h o l e " into Twitter, Donald Trump's profile comes up. Seriously. For real. Hmm

Linky Dink
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 01/27/17 12:45 AM
Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto said “Nyet-Oh! to Mr. Trump regarding their upcoming meeting. Mr.Trump claims it was a mutual decision.

I supposer nyet is a word Mr. Trump is familiar with and one he might become more familiar with as time goes on.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/27/17 01:38 AM
I'll brush up on my Russian and I am trying to learn Mandarin ... got all the bases covered
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 01/29/17 08:08 AM
Steve Bannon makes Dick Cheney seem like a sane, reasonable and circumspect man.
And Trump just put him on the National Security Council.
So, basically -- that sh!te we thought we were in?
It not only just got about 5 miles deeper -- it just turned flammable.

Trump removes DNI and Chairman of Joint Chiefs from National Security Council; adds Bannon, Priebus
Posted By: Phil Hoskins Re: Trump Forum - 01/30/17 06:38 PM
Of all the scary and dangerous things the Cabal is engaged in, what scares me the most is his power to pick a Supreme court. Those steps some of us decry but rely upon the Court to reign in will go through and the we are really screwed for decades.
Posted By: Ma_Republican Re: Trump Forum - 01/30/17 07:58 PM
Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins
Of all the scary and dangerous things the Cabal is engaged in, what scares me the most is his power to pick a Supreme court. Those steps some of us decry but rely upon the Court to reign in will go through and the we are really screwed for decades.


Funny, I felt the same about Hillary. Actually, that is probably the reason that Trump got elected. Ah well, all is well in SCOUS land, and will be for the foreseeable future.

Other than that, Donald Trump is a MORON!

Tim
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 01/30/17 08:42 PM
Quote:
Donald Trump is a MORON!

At least we are finding some common ground to stand on here....
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 01/30/17 09:13 PM
Trump was elected for 4 reasons, any ONE of which, alone, would have reversed the result: 1) vote suppression; 2) Comey letter; 3) Putin/WikiLeaks disinformation campaign; 4) complacency (everybody assumed Clinton would win, even Trump). I can supply links and data for each.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/30/17 09:56 PM
Quote:
I felt the same about Hillary

This says more about you than about Sec Clinton.

Democrats have consistently nominated people who are slightly to the left i.e. Judge Garland as an example, so why are you afraid of them?

The typical conservative talking point is any Trump nomination is mainstream American. Sorry but not even close. His potential nominations are all mainstream hard right ideologues. Democrats will never vote for extremists.

Dems will vote for someone slightly to the right, I guarantee it.
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 01/30/17 10:30 PM
Regarding Trumps immigration ban, some are hoping Mr. Trump will reconsider and rescind the ban. That will never ever happen.

Trump is a man who prides himself as having never been wrong about anything. For him to rescind his ban would be for him to admit that he had made a mistake. Never ever going to happen. Donald J Trump simply does not make mistakes. And the man is not a moron.

A severely misguided and dangerous narcissist- absolutely. A man who has no business even setting foot into the White House- indeed. But a moron no. He knows exactly what he is doing and all of the nay sayers can kiss his ass. At least according to DJT and his way too many adoring sycophants.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 01/30/17 11:55 PM
Quote:
the man is not a moron.

Yes he is.
Quote:
He knows exactly what he is doing

No he doesn't.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 12:06 AM
Most of the Trump administration is using private email servers.
Call me crazy but one could say that they are rubbing our faces in it now.

Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 12:10 AM
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Most of the Trump administration is using private email servers.
Call me crazy but one could say that they are rubbing our faces in it now.

It's 1984 come to life. Republicans accuse others of foul-play then do the exact same thing themselves. If that isn't the definition of a sociopath, I don't know what is.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 03:32 AM
Quote:
Dems will vote for someone slightly to the right, I guarantee it. [for the Supreme Court]


But the Republicans chose not to get rid of the Supreme Court nominee filibuster for this session, so Democrats can hold out for somebody who is not too right-wing if they want. They have to change the rules first thing, before any other business and they didn't.

Democrats could even announce that they will only assent to Merrick Garland!
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 03:59 AM
The problem is Sen McConnell would be compelled to go nuclear so they can confirm any ultra right wing nut they want .... ergo etc etc
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 04:52 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Democrats could even announce that they will only assent to Merrick Garland!

That would be awesome. cool
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 04:53 AM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
The problem is Sen McConnell would be compelled to go nuclear so they can confirm any ultra right wing nut they want .... ergo etc etc

Bastard! mad

Given what Rethugliclowns did to BAMZ!!, I say turnabout is fair play. Hmm
Posted By: Spag-hetti Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 04:56 AM
Which countries might grant us asylum? And, really, any place will be safer than here, after he alienates all our allies and riles up everybody else. Heck, I teach cause and effect to second-graders who don't speak English very well, and they could figure it out.

The day after he became the president elect, one of my third-grade students from Mexico said, "My dad is scared because Trump is president." What should a teacher say? I hugged him and said, "I know." A very inadequate moment for me, but there are legal constraints.

A bright, quiet, gentle sixth-grade Somali student of mine asked, "Since Trump is president, will there be civil war?" Hugged her, too, and said, "We've only had one civil war, and that was over a hundred years ago. We don't do things that way." Sure hope I wasn't lying.

I'm serious, folks. Where are are you thinking about going? We have more to think about than war. What are they going o do with Social Security, and what about Medicare? What will your stocks do? Where can we live on our 'entitlements'?

I'm thinking I can ride it out. But I'm lightening the load.

I'm not usually this dark.

Loggy, is that fireplace you built portable?
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 05:11 AM
Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
Where are are you thinking about going?

Canada. Trump is already coming for us gays. Hmm
Posted By: Phil Hoskins Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 07:36 AM
Quote:
In a statement issued in response to growing questions about whether Mr. Trump would reverse the Obama order, the White House said the president was proud to embrace gay rights.
“President Trump continues to be respectful and supportive of L.G.B.T.Q. rights, just as he was throughout the election,” the statement said. “The president is proud to have been the first ever G.O.P. nominee to mention the L.G.B.T.Q. community in his nomination acceptance speech, pledging then to protect the community from violence and oppression.”


Thank you Mr Trump
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 09:02 AM
Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins

Phil, that sounds like we're groveling: Oh thank you sir for not taking away our unalienable rights which we always had.

It's like thanking a muderer for not murdering you. Hmm

Quote:
Gay rights advocates seemed unimpressed. Chad Griffin, president of the Human Rights Campaign, said Mr. Trump was setting a low bar by claiming credit for not overturning the actions of his predecessor.


Exactly! Push back, ACT-UP! smile
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 11:16 AM
Thanks for not ignoring rights already settled by the Supreme Court?
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 02:45 PM
Some rambling comments ...

what Mr Trump said during campaign may not mean much of anything ... consider anything to do with intangibles vis a vis "The (Great Trump) Wall".

Now consider VP Pence whose skin is crawling with his Christian hatred of anyone not straight.

I predict, should it come up, Mr Trump will acquiesce to VP Pence in matters of social conservatism.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 03:39 PM
I was thinking about the naive notion that what America needed was "to be run more like a business", a concept that I fundamentally disagree with. But supposing it was true, are we seeing the 45 administration running the country more like a business?

Let's say a really, really rich guy buys out a really, really, REALLY BIG company... would his first move be to fire all the upper and middle management folks and replace them with inexperienced ideologues and sycophants? And to radically change the product lines to untested new items while cutting the budgets to all of the departments? And to ignore looming market forces that are threatening to swap the whole enterprise?

No.

45 is an insane narcissist and almost 1/4 of U.S. voters can't see that. Nearly half of all voters chose to look the other way.

The founders did not anticipate this scenario.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 06:33 PM
Quote:
Let's say a really, really rich guy buys out a really, really, REALLY BIG company... would his first move be to fire all the upper and middle management folks and replace them with inexperienced ideologues and sycophants? And to radically change the product lines to untested new items while cutting the budgets to all of the departments? And to ignore looming market forces that are threatening to swap the whole enterprise?

No.

Or....maybe. Take a look at what happened to Sears.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 06:47 PM
The idea is not to run government like a business but to run government in a way that is most profitable for businesses. Perhaps great for business but not so good for the rest of us.
And when the rest of us face financial hardships businesses are hit by lowered sales. Then government is beset by fewer taxes being collected and rising deficit spending.

Best to run government like a government.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 07:48 PM
The problem is, Trump doesn't know how to run a business. He is a real estate mogul, which, frankly, does not require high-level business expertise. You buy and sell a commodity, and it is more about marketing than administration. Whenever he has tried to run a non-real estate business, he has failed. Every time. Planes, booze, clothing. Name a Donald Trump business that has succeeded. I expect his shortcomings, which are legion, to become obvious to all but the willingly blind within a month.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 07:58 PM
Don't forget this is a "businessman" who led casinos into bankruptcy. Casinos practically print money. It takes spectacular talent to bankrupt them. Yuuuuge talent.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 08:08 PM
I have often wondered how a large corporation is like the federal government.

The president would be the CEO, but what role does Congress and the Courts play?

The other thing is corporate efficiency. Republicans/conservatives have long argued corporations are highly efficient etc compared to the federal government. But I suspect that is a gross simplification of their blind belief that anything government is bad. Reality paints a different picture.

If corporations were so efficient, they would not need efficiency experts or systems analysts to find the inherent inefficiencies in large systems.

Mr Trump is a perfect example. I do not expect any change in the efficiency of government.

[I am not wearing hip-waders ... the swamp is filling up]

A further reality is people are still highly successful despite the gross inefficiencies in business.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 01/31/17 11:53 PM
The only "efficiency" of business over government is usually government agencies follow a transparent procedure that obeys the rules, regulations, and laws. Businesses, not so much. Businesses may just make Baby Oil out of Third World babies if they think it will improve their bottom line.

Because of that criminal tendency, we need government to watch them. Without that they would do very bad things, because the mission of any corporation is just to make money. They are the ultimate sociopaths. (I own shares of several, but we desperately need government to keep them honest.)
Posted By: matthew Re: Trump Forum - 02/01/17 01:22 AM
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
Let's say a really, really rich guy buys out a really, really, REALLY BIG company... would his first move be to fire all the upper and middle management folks and replace them with inexperienced ideologues and sycophants? And to radically change the product lines to untested new items while cutting the budgets to all of the departments? And to ignore looming market forces that are threatening to swap the whole enterprise?

No.

Or....maybe. Take a look at what happened to Sears.

A lot of what happened to Sears will probably happen to Trump's administration.

It's just that it will be the USA which will be bankrupt (both morally and financially) rather than Sears.
.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 02/01/17 01:55 AM
Quote:
A lot of what happened to Sears will probably happen to Trump's administration.

Bingo!
Sears likely can't be saved. That's another difference between business and government. Businesses can cut their losses, file bankruptcy, and simply cease to exist. Another business will take up the slack and move into whatever markets are vacated. Government, by its very nature, must continue and evolve.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 02/02/17 05:55 AM
Like I said before, Trump's favorite business moves are not paying for stuff and going into bankruptcy. He's going to be VERY frustrated when he finds out he can't do either. Those are pretty much all he's got, so running "The America Company" is going to be a horrible experience for him.

But it would be for anybody trying to run the country like a business: Because it's not a business.` You are doomed to spectacular failure if you don't understand that.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/02/17 10:48 AM


I see a few more gray hairs since January 20th 2017. Isn't the presidency supposed to make the President old? I think the Trump Administration is making me old and it's only been 12 days! cry
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 02/02/17 09:49 PM
Trump gave a talk today at the annual Prayer Breakfast- for those closer to god- and told those assembled that he will move to get the laws changed that would then allow churches to maintain their tax exempt status while at the same time engaging in political activities. This would entail rescinding the Johnson Amendment that now prohibits them from engaging in political activities without losing that tax exempt status. What could be wrong with that? Hmm

He also managed this comedic line without a trace of irony: “freedom of religion is a sacred right, but it is under serious threat.”

Say what?
Posted By: matthew Re: Trump Forum - 02/03/17 12:21 AM
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
A lot of what happened to Sears will probably happen to Trump's administration.

Bingo!
Sears likely can't be saved. That's another difference between business and government. Businesses can cut their losses, file bankruptcy, and simply cease to exist. Another business will take up the slack and move into whatever markets are vacated. Government, by its very nature, must continue and evolve.

The USA will not continue to evolve when the rest of the world throws off the incubus of the US dollar as the world currency and the US goes bankrupt! There will be a significant discontinuity between the present USA and whatever replaces it.

Big Petroleum is not fighting the truth of Global Heating just to protect their profits. They have important support from the hypermilitaristic US government because with the ending of fossil fuels, the US dollar as the oil dollar becomes irrelevant, and there goes the ability of the government to run perpetually in the red!
.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/03/17 12:27 AM
what he was trying to say but can not get past his 4th grade thinking is, the Constitution keeps getting in the way of the 1st Amendment

figure it out
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 02/03/17 01:37 AM
What do you make of Trump putting Iran on Double Secret Probation?
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/03/17 10:00 AM
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
What do you make of Trump putting Iran on Double Secret Probation?

So General Flynn comes out of nowhere, wasn't even scheduled to speak, simply shows up, issues his warning to Iran, and nobody knows exactly what was meant by it.

This is the kind of Executive Administrators we have these days. It's total idiocy and amateur hour.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/03/17 03:14 PM
I think Gen Flynn has been for some time delusional (I mean in a serious way). Perhaps in his world his ambiguity makes sense to him.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 02/03/17 03:17 PM
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
What do you make of Trump putting Iran on Double Secret Probation?


I believe it is very possible that President Donald (Closet War Hawk) Trump will have us in a shooting war before the mid-terms. eek tinfoilhat
Posted By: matthew Re: Trump Forum - 02/05/17 11:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Ujest Shurly
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
What do you make of Trump putting Iran on Double Secret Probation?


I believe it is very possible that President Donald (Closet War Hawk) Trump will have us in a shooting war before the mid-terms. eek tinfoilhat

Either that, or some phony-baloney "terrorist" hysteria so that he and his handlers can make the USA even more fascist.

James Madison:

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.

Of all the enemies of public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.

The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home.


No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.

.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/06/17 08:06 PM
SOTU becomes STFU: CNN uninvited Kellyann Conway from State of the Union over "credibility" issue. Source
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/06/17 08:30 PM
Mss Conway has long had credibility problems in my opinion.

She routinely does not understand what people say (much like Limbaugh and other right wing radio hosts) and so misrepresents positions (lies- meant to deceive, intentionally or not).

Appears Cosmo found a piece predating her Bowling Green misspeak in which she stated the same lie.

Look, I do not mind spin because I expect it, but I do require facts be the basis of that spin. In Mss Conways case, she is fact free and intentionally runs a deception. Most of not all of Mr Trump's surrogates do the same. Sebastian Gorka may be the exception. He is an intellectual ideologue of the most dangerous kind, a true believer. He fallaciously engages interviewers in successful attempts to deflect from the issues. I have seen Cuomo and Tapper both felled as victims by this chicanery.

I do not think there is anyone in the administration honest enough to get substantive information.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 02/07/17 02:59 AM
Quote:
I do not think there is anyone in the administration honest enough to get substantive information.


Like I've said before, why treat Trump with kid gloves to maintain access? All the access is going to be lies anyway. Why bother? Just get your facts elsewhere and report the damn news. "Banned from the White House" just means your sources are going to be far more truthful.

If the truth pisses off Trump and his toadies, that means you are doing your job as a reporter.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 02/07/17 05:01 AM
Barely two weeks in and they're already having trouble keeping things together.
I look for it to fly off the rails sooner rather than later.

He may resign before they get around to impeaching him.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 02/07/17 05:40 AM
Maybe. He thought he would be the absolute ruler of the US, but even the President has to answer to the Judiciary. Members of Parties nominate and confirm judges but those judges are more loyal to the Judiciary than they are to the Party that nominated them. Trump has already gone after two federal judges. I imagine most federal judges are not kindly disposed to a man who belittles them and threatens them.

The appeal court panel he now faces is fairly certain to uphold the EO stay because they will think he will lose the case too. If it gets to the Supreme Court quickly, with even a partisan vote, they will tie 4:4 and that will leave the EO on hold. Donald is looking at his first defeat and he's only been in office for 3 weeks. He's going to be very upset about this.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/07/17 12:59 PM
I can't imagine how emboldened he would feel if the court ruled in his favor. The chance of that happening is not remote. There is a strong line of cases supporting judicial deference on immigration issues. IRONICALLY, it is a canon least favored by conservative judges.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/07/17 04:55 PM
NWP - do you have any padding for your comments?

The pundits (from both sides) seem to me to ignore something basic to the conversation. Yes, the president has great latitude in writing EO's especially in cases of national security, but he, just as Pres' Lincoln and Roosevelt, is Constitutionally limited by what they can do.

The EO is in response to Islamic terrorists attempting to enter the US through refugee or immigration processes. It is by it's very nature a ban on Muslims, but not all Muslims. The EO selects countries which have high numbers of Muslim terrorists operating and then gives deference to minority religions. There is no distinction between Sunni or Shia Muslims to support the fallacious argument one of these is a religious minority. It is a blanket ban on all Muslims from those countries.

From a legal perspective I do not have a clue ... perhaps you can enlighten the readers?
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/07/17 08:01 PM
I'm on a run to pick up a load, but I'll be back with details tonight.

The confirmation of DeVos today demonstrates that the GOP has absolutely NO standard for acceptability for nominees. That makes Gorsuch almost unavoidable.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/07/17 08:03 PM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
That makes Gorsuch almost unavoidable.

Only if they go 'nuclear.' Hmm
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/07/17 08:16 PM
Why wouldn't they? NO STANDARDS.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/07/17 08:20 PM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Why wouldn't they? NO STANDARDS.

I know, look at what they did to Merrick Garland. A CONservative on another site said "NEVER" in history has a lame-duck President nominated a SCOTUS judge.

I pointed out the it's happened six times.

These right-wingers get their talking points and believe and spread the lies far and wide. I believe the term is useful idiots.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 02/07/17 09:47 PM
Posted by a FB friend:
"To my conservative family and friends: You have been given a gift. The gift is this: Your guy won, your team has the House and the Senate. And it's going... not great. My charge to you is this: figure out how you want to be represented in history. You are on the cusp of being the party that rose up and fought for what you told us you stood for, or you can be the people we have to explain to our children when they ask why no one fought the breakdown of our democracy.

If you voted for the president or a Republican senator because you believe in fiscal conservatism, you should be furious that your tax dollars are going to build a wall that will have zero impact on the effects of immigration.

If you hate the left because of "Political Correctness," you need to be asking yourself if you're okay with the President censoring communications from MULTIPLE government organizations like the National Park Service, the EPA and more.

If you voted because you hated Secretary Clinton's email server, I expect you to be calling your representatives to ask why Steve Bannon and others continue to use their unsecured personal emails and why your president is using an unsecured Android device still.
If you voted because you believed there would be better protection against terrorists, you need to ask yourself why it's okay that your president just took away $130 million in anti-terror funds from New York with his punishment of Sanctuary Cities.

If you are angry that your insurance is too expensive, you should ask why your senators are repealing ACA without a replacement, an action that will leave 20 million people without insurance at all.

If you believe the Clinton initiative provided unequal treatment to countries that supported their foundation, you should be livid that your president has moved to block visas from Muslim countries like Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen, but not places where he has business ties like Egypt, Qatar, Turkey, United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia.

This is an opportunity to prove that you voted for the reasons you say you did. I am taking you seriously; I am taking you literally."
-Levi Frerichs
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 02/08/17 05:04 AM
Oh, Jeffery...your friend just doesn't get it does he?

They hate government and they want to destroy it. That's why they voted like they voted. Is this something new? Something radical? Why no. It's been going on for a long time.

Just looking back in the annals of history we can see that the first
Republican President was a "backwoods lawyer", a former saloon owner who loved telling filthy jokes and starting Civil Wars. If you'll recall...a Democrat shot him.
He was followed by Ulysses S. Grant(not even his real name, he was born Hiram Ulysses Grant) He was president during what is fondly called The Gilded Age, a lovely time when the rich grew incredibly rich and the President got incredibly drunk.
To the dismay of Republicans, some of them weren't really so bad. There was William McKinley(assassinated) and James Garfield(also assassinated) and Theodore Roosevelt(almost assassinated) But they began to get a handle on what they really wanted in a President when they elected a successful businessman and mining engineer, Herbert Hoover. I don't need to point out that he was at the helm for the stock market crash in 1929 that led up to the Great Depression.
More recently they elected a washed up old Hollywood actor who lowered taxes then raised them, then raised them again but not enough to keep him from ballooning the national debt. He was also almost assassinated, and then slept through most of the rest of his presidency.
And then there was George Walker Bush, who ran for office to avenge his father's loss to Bill CLinton. A man who ignored warnings that an attack on America was imminent, started two illegal and unfunded wars because his besties were heavily invested in war materiel and oil and oversaw the stock market crash that led to the Great Recession.

Foolishly we thought they could never do worse than George W. Bush.

We were wrong.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/08/17 06:10 AM
Originally Posted By: Greger
Oh, Jeffery...your friend just doesn't get it does he?

They hate government and they want to destroy it. That's why they voted like they voted. Is this something new? Something radical? Why no. It's been going on for a long time.

Just looking back in the annals of history we can see that the first
Republican President was a "backwoods lawyer", a former saloon owner who loved telling filthy jokes and starting Civil Wars. If you'll recall...a Democrat shot him.
He was followed by Ulysses S. Grant(not even his real name, he was born Hiram Ulysses Grant) He was president during what is fondly called The Gilded Age, a lovely time when the rich grew incredibly rich and the President got incredibly drunk.
To the dismay of Republicans, some of them weren't really so bad. There was William McKinley(assassinated) and James Garfield(also assassinated) and Theodore Roosevelt(almost assassinated) But they began to get a handle on what they really wanted in a President when they elected a successful businessman and mining engineer, Herbert Hoover. I don't need to point out that he was at the helm for the stock market crash in 1929 that led up to the Great Depression.
More recently they elected a washed up old Hollywood actor who lowered taxes then raised them, then raised them again but not enough to keep him from ballooning the national debt. He was also almost assassinated, and then slept through most of the rest of his presidency.
And then there was George Walker Bush, who ran for office to avenge his father's loss to Bill CLinton. A man who ignored warnings that an attack on America was imminent, started two illegal and unfunded wars because his besties were heavily invested in war materiel and oil and oversaw the stock market crash that led to the Great Recession.

Foolishly we thought they could never do worse than George W. Bush.

We were wrong.

Yeah no kidding. Both recent Republican prezzies also have this in common: More Americans voted against them, than for them, and it was only because of parliamentary rules is how they got to be president*.
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 02/08/17 07:07 AM
How soon will we face this?

Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/08/17 03:43 PM
Trump is a far greater threat to our democratic institution than most imagine. The DeVos confirmation demonstrates this, as I'd noted, but Trump’s instincts are inherently bad, as we're Richard Nixon's, and it was only the tapes that ended that chapter:
Quote:
The 45th president, Donald Trump, might pose the gravest threat to the constitutional order since the 37th. Of course, he might not. Perhaps we’ll get Grown-up Trump, an unorthodox and controversial president who, whatever one may think of his policies and personality, proves to be responsible and effective as a chief executive. But we might get Infantile Trump, an undisciplined narcissist who throws tantrums and governs haphazardly. Or perhaps, worse yet, we’ll get Strongman Trump, who turns out to have been telegraphing his real intentions when, during the campaign, he spread innuendo and misinformation, winked at political violence, and proposed multiple violations of the Constitution and basic decency. Quite probably we’ll get some combination of all three (and possibly others).
theAtlantic.com

But Trump is not the only threat. Don't forget Mitch McConnell's anti-democratic, heavy-handed rule in the Senate - which just yesterday silenced Elizabeth Warren for reading their own record, on the flimsy excuse that she was demeaning a colleague - No, she was discussing a nominee. The GOP is an authoritarian institution careening toward National Socialism. I'm not sure they even see the parallels, they're so intoxicated by their grip on power.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 02/08/17 05:56 PM
T
Quote:
he GOP is an authoritarian institution careening toward National Socialism. I'm not sure they even see the parallels, they're so intoxicated by their grip on power.

Candidates lie. Politicians lie. Segments of the media have been known to lie.
What never lies are the numbers...Wages, unemployment, the stock market, deficit spending, national debt. Numbers of boots on the ground and troops killed. Failing students and failing schools. Deaths due to lack of insurance, failing hospitals due to lack of insured patients, skyrocketing healthcare costs.
They may be drunk on power now but failed policy produces hard numbers. Though they haven't really even begun their reign of terror their day of reckoning is already before them.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 02/08/17 11:30 PM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I'm not sure they even see the parallels, they're so intoxicated by their grip on power.


NONSENSE.
They are rubbing our faces in it, at this point.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/09/17 06:35 PM
The blatant, and entirely predictable, ethics violations keep piling up. First it was Trump, and then, quite baldly, Kellyann Conway. Bloomberg. An ethics probe might lead to release of some tax returns. I don't know what mix ignorance and chutzpah leads to this level of ethical chicanery, but it is nearly unprecedented. At least during Teapot Dome they tried to keep it under wraps.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/09/17 06:37 PM


President* Trump has now met with General Motors, General Dynamics and General Electric. I wonder what they want?

Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/10/17 01:49 AM
People 3, Trump 0.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/10/17 03:56 AM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
People 3, Trump 0.

Bow
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 02/10/17 06:39 AM
Don’t get too uppity just yet. There is an extremely long way to go.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/10/17 06:47 AM
Oh God, don't I know it.. But... it's a start. I've determined that the primary criterion for a Trump appointment is the ability to lie with impunity.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/10/17 10:02 AM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
People 3, Trump 0.

These so-called judges have some nerve putting our great and wonderful President's EO on hold simply because that nice judge in Washington said to do so. coffee
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/10/17 03:35 PM
She was warned. She persisted.... and so must we all. H. Clinton.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/10/17 07:02 PM
I failed to get back to the merits of the "ban" case as it proceeded so rapidly and I've been on the road. I'll try to flesh this post out throughout the day as I can, but here's a Start:

a) Congress has for years abdicated any role in immigration issues. As a result, old statutes have been used by the executive branch to create policies around the issue. The law backs a president's power on immigration. Here's where the travel ban differs - LA Times
Quote:
“The exclusion of aliens is a fundamental act of sovereignty … inherent in the executive power,” the Supreme Court said in 1950. And lest there be doubt, Congress adopted a provision in 1952 saying the president “may by proclamation and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens and any class of aliens as immigrants or non-immigrants” whenever he thinks it “would be detrimental to the interests of the United States.”
Quote:
Section 1182(f), states: “Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate”
.

b) The biggest faults in the ban have been is breadth, unspecificity, and discriminatory intent/structure. Breadth in that it included all immigrants and refugees, regardless of status (including visa and green card holders). Unspecificity, because - even at trial - the administration provided no "rational basis" for its decision, asserting that it had "unreviewable" plenary authority, absent evidence, in the field of immigration. The discriminatory intent is demonstrated by past and concurrent statements, and the structure by exceptions for "religious minorities" (i.e., non-muslims). The general rule is that the government can pass a law/regulation for nearly any reason BUT an impermissible one. Religious discrimination is explicitly impermissible both constitutionally and in the Immigration and Naturalization Act.
Quote:
Section 1152(a) of Title 8, U.S. Code, states that (with exceptions not here relevant) “no person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of the person’s race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence”.


c) Nearly all of the "defects" can be cured with appropriate crafting. Given the overweening hubris of the administration, however, I don't expect them to take that route.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 02/10/17 08:31 PM
Quote:
"defects" can be cured


If their was one person in the White House with any brains, they would cancel that EO and write one directing all the vetting agencies to review their procedures to see if they can improve their process in any way. It may not really be possible (since they are working perfectly now) but I assume most of them could come up with something that would LOOK like an improvement. Like make a waiting period 90 days instead of 60.

Then Trump could write another EO directing them to do some of those and declare victory.

But of course we now have a head-butting contest that won't stop until somebody passes out. It will go the the Supreme Court and lose, badly. I would not be surprised at a 8:0 decision. Maybe this is all it takes to make Trump resign in a tantrum?
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 02/11/17 04:47 AM
It appears the 9th is preparing to dogpile on Trump en banc, I'm specuating, as a well-deserved bitchslap for the judicial insults tendered by the narcissistic one.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/11/17 05:32 PM
9th Circuit Judge Wants Another Vote over Trump Travel Ban Decision - LawNewz. I think this is what you were referring to, log? A couple of quick programming notes: First, any judge can request an en banc review, and I have an idea which judge it might have been (a Bush appointee), but it requires a majority vote of the entire 29-member Court to have it. Neither party has petitioned for it. It is extremely unusual for a court to take an en banc review on its own motion, and I don't think that will happen here. Instead, I think that one of the judges was upset that there was no dissent from the panel's decision and wants an opportunity to put his/her objection in writing to burnish their conservative bona fides.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/11/17 06:11 PM
All he/she has to do is say there is no one to his/her right.

Extremism is the litmus test for detection of righteous conservatism
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/11/17 06:34 PM
Quote:
Nearly all of the "defects" can be cured

Overlooked is the language these folks use to describe the imminent threat.

The EO was a simple Muslim ban for 7 countries. They thought they could get away with the 7 since they were listed during the Obama presidency by Congress and used by Pres Obama to slow entry while revising vetting. The rationale is the vetting was lax as in almost non-existent (Gorka likes to say, one such interview was just 30 sec's long), just 2 years long. What was never mentioned by anyone is, if the applicant did not have proper papers or they could not be verified in some way, THEY COULD NOT ENTER. Further the administration mentioned many times the inability of the vetting process to guarantee terrorists would not slip by the weak almost non-existent rules in place.

So how can they guarantee their paradigm would be better or would work any better than the one already in use? They can't. What they can do to prevent any terrorists from entering the US is to stop all immigration of any kind and start deporting anyone who has entered in the last 16 years.

I suspect a blanket Muslim ban is what Bannon/Gorka/Flynn (otherwise known as the Troika of Islamophobia) have in mind. The problem was to find something which appeared to be Constitutional(like an EO) and start with that.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 02/11/17 07:54 PM
Speaking of Flynn, looks like we have our first Traitor of the present administration. Working with an un-friendly government to undermine then current government policies and actions. With reason to believe these actions by Flynn were on going before the November elections.

Personal opinion, Lt. General Michael Flynn (Retired) should be summarily shot if the current allegations are proved correct.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/11/17 11:39 PM
I don't think he can be summarily shot. No one in the Trump administration can add.
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 02/12/17 04:09 AM
Where is my drumroll-cymbal crash?
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/12/17 04:19 AM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
Nearly all of the "defects" can be cured

Overlooked is the language these folks use to describe the imminent threat.

The EO was a simple Muslim ban for 7 countries. They thought they could get away with the 7 since they were listed during the Obama presidency by Congress and used by Pres Obama to slow entry while revising vetting..

Bannon thinks that writing something on the back of a napkin and having President* Trump sign it is good law-making. Hmm
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 02/13/17 04:06 AM
Here's an interesting article:

Trump Aides Keep Leaking Embarrassing Stories About How He Can’t Handle Embarrassment

Quote:
Nearly a dozen of Trump’s closest confidantes helped plant an embarrassing news story about how their boss can’t handle embarrassing news stories. Which is to say: A president who prizes loyalty in his subordinates has already been betrayed by a huge swath of his inner circle.

It isn’t hard to understand why Trump’s aides would want to distance themselves from the mogul’s decision to begin his presidency by shouting self-aggrandizing delusions at CIA employees, congressional leaders, and the Fourth Estate. But we aren’t in the late days of a losing campaign, when it’s normal for advisers to start leaking dirt on the boss to save their reputations.


Sounds like his staff can all see their time working in the White House is going to be over soon: That feeling it doesn't matter what you do because you're going to be fired shortly, and it will be a relief. Probably how Ivana and Marla feel.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/13/17 04:20 AM
there is an interesting story out there the IC is withholding intel in fear Russia has ears in the SitRoom. They are doing it because they fear the administration could be either/or incompetent and compromised.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 02/13/17 11:26 AM
Fear? We already know the administration is incompetent and compromised, and several members near the top have a history of making deals with the Russians.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/13/17 04:25 PM
John Oliver bought ads on Trump’s favorite cable news shows to correct the president’s lies This is definitely worth a half hour of your life.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/13/17 05:59 PM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer

This is very sad. Trump getting his information from Fox and Alex Jones and his supporters getting their information from the same sources. This is circular confirmation bias on steroids. Hmm
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/13/17 06:01 PM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Fear? We already know the administration is incompetent and compromised, and several members near the top have a history of making deals with the Russians.

Conservatives Big on Fear, Brain Study Finds
Psychology Today
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/13/17 06:19 PM


Trump voters built this:

Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/13/17 06:40 PM

Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/13/17 07:13 PM


Guest at Trump's Mar-a-Lago on Saturday night, where Trump was hosting Japanese Prime Minister Abe, has picture taken with guy who carries 'The Nuclear Codes Football.' Just imagine the Fox News outrage if this had happened on BAMZ!!! watch.

Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/13/17 08:01 PM


It's becoming abundantly clear, this is the presidency for the Breitbart and Stormfront crowd (...and Russia) - and for no one else.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/13/17 09:11 PM
Mr Trump delegated his presidential nuclear launch authority to Mr DeAgazio.

I have no problem with that. Mr Trump is Der Leader ... I mean president and has no conflicts of interest

Toot toot ... all aboard for the Trump Train
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 01:16 AM
Astonishly good article about the Trump presidency from David Frum. A very insightful man who by most accounts is a conservative. I suppose a conservative in the old fashioned sense.

One can listen to it too with the provided links. Please give it a read, or a listen as you prefer:

Link
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 01:20 AM
I'll admit, this pisses me off: Oroville Dam crisis: No word from Trump; FEMA helping. One letter per thousand evacuees would suffice. But, yanno, it's not about Trump.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 01:47 AM
Loyalty to Trump trumps loyalty to country.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 02:05 AM
Welcome to Jefferson Sessions' DOJ: Trump's DOJ withdraws Obama effort over transgender bathroom case. Did you really think he'd protect civil rights?
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 02:18 AM
Perhaps if the dam catastrophically fails, Trump can ride the breech downstream on his raft while holding up a sign that promotes Ivana’s products.

Hey...I like that visual..........................
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 02:25 AM
Bear in mind there is no danger of the dam itself failing. The spillway might prove problematic-- but the chances of that are slim.

I just used that prop as a visual.....
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 04:51 AM
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


Guest at Trump's Mar-a-Lago on Saturday night, where Trump was hosting Japanese Prime Minister Abe, has picture taken with guy who carries 'The Nuclear Codes Football.' Just imagine the Fox News outrage if this had happened on BAMZ!!! watch.



---And this is not a gross violation of operational security?
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 05:55 AM
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


Guest at Trump's Mar-a-Lago on Saturday night, where Trump was hosting Japanese Prime Minister Abe, has picture taken with guy who carries 'The Nuclear Codes Football.' Just imagine the Fox News outrage if this had happened on BAMZ!!! watch.



---And this is not a gross violation of operational security?

It's ok if Republicans do it. laugh
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 02:56 PM
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
---And this is not a gross violation of operational security?


Yes it is.

That Officer should be removed from the detail. He knows he is supposed to be not seen and not heard.

This White House has more holes than a colander...
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 03:17 PM
more than a leaky sieve?
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 03:20 PM
not so surprisingly Mike Flynn Jr has tweeted his father's resignation was the result of a disinformation campaign.

I am trying to figure out which conspiracy of people did such a horrible thing
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 03:42 PM
It was... by Flynn Sr. Oh, and there was a little bit of traitoring in there, too, to give it body.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 04:44 PM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
more than a leaky sieve?


Same thing, except a colendar often has larger holes.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 07:40 PM
Especially for the legal beegles:

Enforcing the emoluments laws without going through Congress

The trick is to sue the Trump Organization, not the president...
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 08:26 PM
Interesting story on NPR today: Trump has repeatedly claimed that Bowe Bergdahl (the soldier going to court martial for cooperating with the Taliban) is a traitor and should be shot or thrown out of an airplane. But Article 37 of the UCMJ says that any commanding officer can make pretrial comments that make a fair military trial impossible. So Bergdahl will probably walk.

Trumps own comments, repeated over and over on TV, have tainted any possible jury. Apparently the military take this very seriously and a number of cases have been dismissed when commanding officers have commented. For example, one CO said the he hates DUIs, so any one convicted of a DUI should get a dishonorable discharge. The result was a lot of dismissed DUI cases under his command.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 02/14/17 08:38 PM
Certainly no one will suggest that Trump is in command of anything?
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 02/15/17 02:24 AM
Unfortunately EVERY unit in the armed forces is ultimately under Trump's command. That is precisely why Article 37 applies here, and in any case where Trump makes a prejudicial comment. Officers on the jury are used to following orders, so if someone up the chain of command says "convict" they will.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 02/15/17 04:14 AM
I think you may be mistaken, at least that is how I read you post.

Article 37, UCMJ
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 02/15/17 05:33 AM
I don't think so. It is perfectly clear. The President is Commander-In-Chief of all armed forces so he sits at the highest position in the chain of command. Article 37 doesn't say the officer in question has to be the immediate commanding officer of the officers serving as jurors. It applies to every officer up the chain of command.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 02/15/17 06:53 PM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Unfortunately EVERY unit in the armed forces is ultimately under Trump's command. That is precisely why Article 37 applies here, and in any case where Trump makes a prejudicial comment. Officers on the jury are used to following orders, so if someone up the chain of command says "convict" they will.


Maybe I was not specific enough, The bolded portion above is exactly what Article 37 is meant to stop.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 02/15/17 07:29 PM
What bolded portion of what? You have failed to supply any reference. I think the very first sentence says it all:

Quote:
(a) No authority convening a general, special, or summary court-martial, nor any other commanding officer, may censure, reprimand, or admonish the court or any member, military judge, or counsel thereof, with respect to the findings or sentence adjudged by the court, or with respect to any other exercise of its or his functions in the conduct of the proceeding.


"nor any other commanding officer" has to include everyone up the command chain besides the officer who convened the court martial. This includes Commander In Chief Trump. He has said many times in many public media appearances that Bergdahl is guilty and should be shot or thrown from an airplane.

His intemperate remarks in public have destroyed any chance Bergdahl had of getting a fair trial. Bergdahl walks.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 02/15/17 09:12 PM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
He has said many times in many public media appearances that Bergdahl is guilty and should be shot or thrown from an airplane.

His intemperate remarks in public have destroyed any chance Bergdahl had of getting a fair trial. Bergdahl walks.


The above is INDEED a VERY intemperate remark and no doubt it's the reason why Bergdahl's attorneys felt confident enough that it was that they specifically referred to those remarks in their demand for a dismissal.
Many judges tend to take a dim view of attorneys who abuse the demand for dismissal right out the gate. They consider such a tactic an example of showboating if there isn't a compelling reason to make such a submission.
I would hazard a guess that a military tribunal would take an even more dim view of such a stunt, if it were a stunt.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 02/15/17 11:48 PM
I think we are arguing the same point, but are out of sync. As to a reference or link: two posts above my previous one is the link. As to the bolded portion, where you said - "Officers on the jury are used to following orders, so if someone up the chain of command says "convict" they will."

I am saying no Military Court would convict with out evidence and most certainly would not do what they were told to do by any Commanding Officer or President Donald (I am the boss) Trump as it relates to the trial. That Article 37, UCMJ, prevents that interference, protects from that interference and in effect says that a Military Court is obligated to disobey and ignore any interference, as it relates to the trial, from Command.

As to Sgt. Bergdahl, I am not aware of the evidence and have no opinion at this time. What little I have read leaves me with many questions.

I hope I cleared up any confusion.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 02/16/17 07:23 AM
But the interference has ALREADY occurred! The Commander In Chief has ALREADY said that Bergdahl should be convicted and executed. Article 37 says what commanders must not do for a fair trial. It does not say what jurors must do because it assumes they will follow the wished of their commanding officer.

Now he can't get a fair trial so a request for dismissal is not some stunt. It's very likely going to be granted.

Personally, I would have liked to hear the evidence at a fair trial. I really don't know enough about the case. It sounds like he was only guilty of going for a short walk (which I am sure soldiers do all the time) and everything that happened after that was not his fault. But I doubt a fair trial can happen now.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/16/17 09:48 AM

per US Magazine

Quote:
Melania spends most days hidden away in her lavish $100 million New York apartment, likely with the shades tightly drawn, trying to ignore the constant stream of picketers outside the building’s entrance. Though she has always been a very private person, Bloch says, “she is staying hidden more.”

For example, before the inauguration, Melania would accompany her 10-year-old son, Barron, to and from school every day in a chauffeured luxury SUV. These days, she remains at home and instead “has the Secret Service take Barron to school and retrieve him.”

Imagine if Michelle Obama had left kid duty to the Secret Service! I guess you can only be a lazy bitch FLOTUS if you're white AND Republican. coffee
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 02/16/17 04:39 PM
In the interest of fostering understanding of the Military Justice System, I submit for your interest this thesis of a Major, a student, at the The Judge Advocate General's School, United States Army, from April 1992. The US Military Justice System is, in part, based upon the American Justice System and yet outside that system as supported by a SCOTUS decision a few years ago.

In the military time scale, 1992 can be yesterday in some cases...


The link ---> THE COURT-MARTIAL PANEL MEMBER SELECTION PROCESS: A CRITICAL ANALYSIS
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 02/16/17 05:56 PM
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/16/17 07:52 PM

Nice!! smile
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/16/17 10:56 PM
Okay, I've failed to weigh in on an issue in my wheel house (as a retired JAG officer). There are actually two separate, but related, issues here regarding Bergdahl: 1) unlawful command influence, and b) ability to have a fair trial.

Article 37 is difficult to prove, and disfavored by judges. To my knowledge, it has never been argued regarding the CiC status of the President, but I've not researched the issue specifically. On the other hand, Trump's statements were very specific which is usually required to sustain an article 37 claim, so there is a good deal of merit to that assertion.

With regard to a fair trial, it is a little mushier, because it is fairly easy to assert that an officer (s) was/w ere not influenced by the statements, but, conversely, the criteria are a bit broader for the making a claim.

In combination, though, I think Bergdahl has a surprisingly strong claim.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 02/17/17 03:50 PM
edited: OOPS, right idea wrong forum dunce

To NWP, Hand Salute, thanks for the analysis. Over the years of lurking, I figured you had some type of training in law.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/19/17 05:50 PM



Our wonderful new President has filed re-election papers for 2020 after only 30 days in Office, ergo last night's "Campaign Rally" in Melbourne Florida where Trump, in the grand tradition of Kellyanne's Bowling Green Massacre, simply invented a terrorist attack in Sweden allegedly committed by immigrants out of whole cloth.

Former Swedish Prime Minister Carl Bildt tweeted “Sweden? Terror attack? What has he been smoking?”

(Crack, probably coffee ).
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 02/19/17 08:36 PM
I think he'll be either institutionalized or dead by 2020. His disease is rapidly progressing, whatever it is.
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 02/20/17 04:49 AM
No matter how much you folks expect Trump supporters to vanish--they simply won't. They love that guy (now more than ever) and visualize him as The Savior. And there ain’t no doubts either way about that.

Donald Trump is The Savior and all those not onboard need to jump aside. Or off board---- at least.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/20/17 06:49 AM


As the popular vote demonstrates, there are more of us, than them. smile
Posted By: bigswede Re: Trump Forum - 02/20/17 05:05 PM
Making up fake stories are we?
Sweden has suffered from a surge in crimes like rape, robbery, murder and shootings with the mass immigration.
The official crime assessment authority recently revealed that they will change how they collect and present statistics about crimes. As they have found that the old model does not accurately show reality. Specifically in relation to the perpetrators country of origin.
A seasoned detective Peter Springare soon to retire in the city of Orebro wrote on his FB of how in one week with several rapes, violent crimes, attempted murder and the likes, only one suspect investigated was of swedish origin. All the other originate from the middle east, bearing namnes as Ali, Mohammad all of them.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/9JREp/polis-kritiserade-invandringspolitik-anmals
Yes, I read swedish.

This has sparked a furious debate in Sweden about what to publicize and what the good citizens of Sweden are better off kept in the dark about.

This is what Fox told about and Donald T picked up on.

Now all the left leaners in Sweden and the US are trying to cover up the truth, mocking Donald.

Of course a lot of Swedes are unhappy with being attacked by a foreigner for the way their country is run. Americans react the same way when criticized by foreigners
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/20/17 05:32 PM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
This is what Fox told about and Donald T picked up on.

No, what Donald Trump "picked up on" was that THERE WAS a terrorists attack in Sweden on Friday.

Either Fox News lied, or the President has difficulty comprehending and interpreting the English language.

Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 02/20/17 06:24 PM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
Making up fake stories are we?
Sweden has suffered from a surge in crimes like rape, robbery, murder and shootings with the mass immigration.
The official crime assessment authority recently revealed that they will change how they collect and present statistics about crimes. As they have found that the old model does not accurately show reality. Specifically in relation to the perpetrators country of origin.
A seasoned detective Peter Springare soon to retire in the city of Orebro wrote on his FB of how in one week with several rapes, violent crimes, attempted murder and the likes, only one suspect investigated was of swedish origin. All the other originate from the middle east, bearing namnes as Ali, Mohammad all of them.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/9JREp/polis-kritiserade-invandringspolitik-anmals
Yes, I read swedish.

This has sparked a furious debate in Sweden about what to publicize and what the good citizens of Sweden are better off kept in the dark about.

This is what Fox told about and Donald T picked up on.

Now all the left leaners in Sweden and the US are trying to cover up the truth, mocking Donald.

Of course a lot of Swedes are unhappy with being attacked by a foreigner for the way their country is run. Americans react the same way when criticized by foreigners


How about we take the statistics from the official Swedish source The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Brottsförebyggande rådet - Brå) - "an agency under the Ministry of Justice - is a centre for research and development within the judicial system."

Maybe if you read you will see that Fox, Breitbart (faux) News and President Donald (Can not get the facts straight) Trump are not fact checking their stories. Do yourself a favor and dig down for an explanation of what these statistics mean and are showing.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 02/20/17 06:27 PM
Good to see you BigS and it's good to see you haven't wavered from your conservative stance even after the biggest electoral disaster since Andrew Jackson(the first Democrat).

So why are so many countries having problems with immigrants?

Could it be because decades of US intervention in the ME has disrupted the lives of so many that they find it necessary to flee their homes, their(no longer existent) jobs and lives? Do you imagine the average desert dweller is thinking to themselves "let's head to icy Sweden to spread our glorious religion among the godless infidels there and disrupt their rule of law with our version of religious law instead"?

You may view President Trump as the best thing since sliced bread and his various mistakes as just stumbling blocks on the way to making America great again. You may attempt to explain them away and deflect the facts to suit your image of a glorious conservative revolution. I'm a reasonable man and certainly willing to sit back and wait for all the good things to come. But in the meantime I'm keeping track of all the lies and half truths, all the fabrications and half baked schemes to enrich the already rich in the hopeless imagining that making them even richer will somehow improve the lives of the less fortunate.

Talk to me in a year Bigswede. Your guys have got a lock on government; root branch and twig. Whatever happens is all yours. You own it.
Who knows...maybe it will work this time.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/20/17 07:03 PM

Even the Swedes are saying: WTF?!? Hmm

Former Prime Minister:

Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/20/17 07:05 PM
Originally Posted By: Greger
You may view President Trump as the best thing since sliced bread and his various mistakes as just stumbling blocks on the way to making America great again.

More like President Trump is the complete and utter failure that he's always been. He got lucky just one time: November 8, 2016.

Else, he's the same bumbling, misfiring, Donald Trump he has always been. Hmm
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/20/17 07:52 PM

Quote:
Sweden has suffered from a surge in crimes like rape, robbery, murder and shootings with the mass immigration.

Now I like the inference made that refugees (a euphemism for Muslims) are subhuman scum who are predisposed to violence. If this sounds familiar, please read almost anything from neo-nazi sites (PC word is alt-right). Of course if one were to follow the impact of mass immigration then one may find the impact of poverty may actually be of far greater importance and in fact may be the root cause of purported rise in crime rate.

Originally Posted By: wiki
Figures from the Swedish Crime Survey (SCS) show that exposure to crime has decreased since 2005. The number of convictions has remained between 110,000 and 130,000 in the 2000s — a decrease since the 1970s, when they numbered around 300,000 — despite the population growth


The real question and concern of Sweden is the social and governmental impact of immigration, which is very real.

I did read several right wing accounts and in each they disregard context to cherry pick facts which would support a racist right wing interpretation of Muslim immigration.
Posted By: bigswede Re: Trump Forum - 02/20/17 09:29 PM
Ah, good you found the Swedish Crime Service!
But they are not telling the complete truth. As I said earlier they recently announced they will change the way they report crime, since it's normal stats does not register names or decent.
Crimes among swedes has gone down. Crimes among most immigrants is low.
But there is a group of immigrants that live off crimes. There is also a group of immigrant that incites what is crimes in Sweden but not in their homelands. Those crimes are grossly underreported.

Not all of Sweden is equally affected, It is primarily the three major cities' suburbs, Stockholm about 1,5-2 million people counting the suburbs, Gothenburg 0.5-1 million and Malmo less than 0.5 million suffering. Counting per capita Malmo is hit worst and is the most immigrant settled city because it's on the southern border.
And, surprise! That's where these crimes abound! When police say it's out of hand it really does not matter what the bureaucrats say. The police, firefighters and ambulance personell are the ones with first hand knowledge. They acknowledge there are such no-go zones in Swedish suburbs where they don't go like they used to.

As to islam, it's a very poisonous religion. Read the koran, quran or how ever you want to spell it. I have read it cover to cover. It is nonsensical, non tolerant with a mission. It is written to be interpreted by clergy to fool the masses of a cult. It is simply not a religion fit for democracy.

The most invisible immigrants are the criminals. Because MSM can not admit they exist without exposing themselves to criticism from one another for being racist. So the rest of the Swedes must endure the siege until MSM sober up.

A sad state of affairs.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 02/20/17 09:41 PM
To: bigswede

If you read it you would know how to spell it. Quran, westernized Koran. Do you know what the Quran is?
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/20/17 10:35 PM
I am never amazed that people believe what they want without regard for facts.

Take for instance the "nogo crime zone" in Malmo. You no doubt believe it is a war zone with refugees killing at random children, elderly, or just any Swede. But it appears strange to me that when the local police are asked the question they always respond, there is no such thing.
Quote:
Malmö police, however, say there’s absolutely no truth to the idea of “no-go zones.” “It’s a question that appears every now and then,” police spokesperson Lars Förstell told BuzzFeed News. “It has never been true.”
https://www.buzzfeed.com/ishmaeldaro/no-go-zone-myth
Similar quotes can be found at every turn.

It is true Islamophobic right wing sites, routinely present disinformation meant to incite people such as yourself, so I implore you to do objective research and not rely on the "fake news" sites you frequent.

The only poison I see is your bigotry. Check your own words for sense, intolerance and agenda.
Posted By: matthew Re: Trump Forum - 02/20/17 11:32 PM
Originally Posted By: bigswede

As to islam, it's a very poisonous religion. Read the koran, quran or how ever you want to spell it. I have read it cover to cover. It is nonsensical, non tolerant with a mission. It is written to be interpreted by clergy to fool the masses of a cult. It is simply not a religion fit for democracy.

The same could be said about the Bible.

It is also nonsensical, full of intolerance, and traditionally interpreted by the clergy of a cult to fool the masses. It is also quite unsuitable for a democracy.

So what does that prove? We have to play the hand that we are dealt, and suppressing religious malarkey would create more problems than just letting the passage of time eliminate these silly religions, just as it has eliminated the worship of Zeus, Odin and Mithra.
.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 01:18 AM
Our Swedish friend apparently woud have us believe that all the news coming out of Sweden in regards to immigrants is "fake news".
And the only way to get the truth is to read the Swedish version of Brietbart...
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 09:58 AM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
...But they are not telling the complete truth...

Ah...yes. Only CONseratives know the truth about anything. More like "the truth" or as Kellyanne calls it: Alternative facts smile
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 10:01 AM
Originally Posted By: Greger
Our Swedish friend apparently woud have us believe that all the news coming out of Sweden in regards to immigrants is "fake news".
And the only way to get the truth is to read the Swedish version of Brietbart...

Read the Swedish version of dead Andrew's blog for white supremacists and erectile dysfunctional males? No thank you. coffee
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 10:02 AM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
As to islam, it's a very poisonous religion.

If Islam is 'poisonous' - so is Christianity and Judaism - because all three are Abrahamic religions with the very same God and "poems."
Posted By: bigswede Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 03:05 PM
Oh, well!
Had your fun?
Where to begin?
Funny thing, I was a classic liberal in the ways of J.S. Mill back in 1960. I haven't changed anything substantial since then. But now people feel OK calling me conservative. They must have moved the goalposts, a common practice among the left, like Josef Stalin & CO. Yes they've had lot of help from some of the MSM.

The Swedes seem to react just like the Americans did back in the 70's when my pa with a clear Swedish accent complained about Dicky Nixon. He got the "love it or leave it" speech.
The Swedes today seem to defend their own government's propaganda. That doesn't mean they actually believe it. They just don't want to be internationally ridiculed. Americans and Swedes alike.

There was a riot in Stockholm last night in the immigrant dense suburb of Rinkeby. Complete with car burnings, rock throwing at the police and a shot fired from the police into the crowd.
One elder immigrant, living there since 1972, said on national TV that these new immigrants can't be trusted, send them back, they are destroying our homes and our good life in Sweden.
All's well in Sweden? No, not by any normal measure!

As to islam, it sets itself apart very much from christianity and the New Testament. Read the dam thing (The Koran) if you can bear it all the way through!

Personally, I don't believe in any god or deity. Religion has, in my opinion, no place in the government of man, no place in a democratic society.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 04:22 PM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
Funny thing, I was a classic liberal in the ways of J.S. Mill back in 1960. I haven't changed anything substantial since then.
So many statements made here belie the veracity of that assertion it boggles the mind. As soon as one uses the term "classical liberal" for themselves, one can be assured a classical deception follows. It's like saying, "I'm not a racist, but... " and here one is not disappointed:
Originally Posted By: bigswede
But now people feel OK calling me conservative. They must have moved the goalposts, a common practice among the left, like Josef Stalin & CO. Yes they've had lot of help from some of the MSM.
Classical misdirection. One cannot trust the MSM, one can only rely on the BSM.

Originally Posted By: bigswede
As to islam, it sets itself apart very much from christianity and the New Testament. Read the dam thing (The Koran) if you can bear it all the way through!
I suspect the reading was as cursory as the reading of Mill... understanding the words is not the same as understanding the concepts. It appears, here, that such understanding is, shall we say, selective. Quick which Koranic verse is this.: "destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves, For thou shalt worship no other god"

Originally Posted By: bigswede
Personally, I don't believe in any god or deity. Religion has, in my opinion, no place in the government of man, no place in a democratic society.
Thankfully, something upon which we agreed wholly.
Posted By: bigswede Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 05:16 PM
@ NW ponderer
I'm dismayed to read your comments about my disclosure about my political position and of my understanding of the Koran. You only present assumptions of your own, which is tantamount to ad hominem and in reality just BS. I really expected better from you!

Glad we agree on religion and government.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 05:52 PM
A reality-based discussion of Sweden's immigration experience: Extinguishing Donald Trump’s Swedish Immigration 'Fire'.

I would say, ad argumentum, my friend. What I am objecting to its the sweeping generalizations and misdirection included in your statements. Like Trump, the technique is to overwhelm with baseless assertions, thus shutting down opposition. For example, please provide a link to your sources for crime statistics by ethnicity. Please identify any instance where someone asserted that Sweden has no problems, as you allege.

You describe yourself as a "classic liberal" - which runs contrary to the views you have expressed here. I have found, and that is borne out here, that when one self-identifies as a "classic liberal" that is to avoid being perceived as a "libertarian-conservative". I've read Mill, and I know he was a member of the "Liberal" party of his day, but his views are far from what the modern usage of "liberal" implies. I describe that as misdirection.

I seek, as I always do, to direct the conversation to observable facts, and avoid hyperbole and vacuous claims or misdirection. I was intending simply to apply that matrix to this discussion. If I overstepped, I apologize, but maybe, too, it is like Trump supporters "adopting" the deplorable label...

BTW, do you have a response to the substance of anything in my post?
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 06:03 PM
I'll be more specific:
ASSERTION: "The Swedes today seem to defend their own government's propaganda. That doesn't mean they actually believe it." Evidence?

ASSERTION: "They must have moved the goalposts, a common practice among the left, like Josef Stalin & CO. Yes they've had lot of help from some of the MSM." Evidence? (Or, Franky, point?)

ASSERTION: "There was a riot in Stockholm last night in the immigrant dense suburb of Rinkeby. Complete with car burnings, rock throwing at the police and a shot fired from the police into the crowd.
One elder immigrant, living there since 1972, said on national TV that these new immigrants can't be trusted, send them back, they are destroying our homes and our good life in Sweden." Source?

ASSERTION: "As to islam, it sets itself apart very much from christianity and the New Testament." Basis?
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 07:17 PM
I do not believe Mr Big Swede has legitimate answers but perhaps I may comment to your questions/assertions.

Riots erupt in Sweden’s capital ...

1. I would think this is a typical response from anyone who wishes to misrepresent the facts. In the above article it mentions government stats and responses and people who have contrary beliefs. It does not mean it is factual. A current domestic example is the belief among conservatives and in particular Trump supporters the world is on the verge of end time apocalypse. The facts however paint a far different picture. Spkr Gingrich said facts do not matter when people believe the false perceptions they have been feed (I am paraphrasing & extrapolating)

2. The meaning of words are not static as if frozen in time unless one is a conservative. A Liberal in 1860 is not the same as a Liberal today and a Lincoln Republican (as much as want this to be true) is not the same party as today's Republican Party, nor is the Democrat Party of 1878 which supported the KKK the same as the Party today (as much as conservatives like to say it is the same). The logical extension of this fallacious thinking results in conservatives believing the National Socialists are liberals and the Democratic Republic of Germany was a democracy.

3. see citation for views from both sides. Overall this article refutes Mr Big Swede's belief.

4. Its been a long time since I read it but as I recall it is an Abrahamic religion not a Christian religion. Thus Islam and Christianity are siblings, the children of Judaism.

I have no problem with religion, but I do have a problem when it is mixed with a secular government. If the Founders wanted a theocracy, they would have founded it that way. All of the religious zealots who have gained elective office and raise the Bible above the Constitution should be impeached i.e. thrown out of office.

Clearly I do not believe Mr Big Swede would agree with any of these comments as they are not supported by Breitbart's view. Perhaps Mr Big Swede can drill down with some facts to support his positions?
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 07:29 PM
Equating so called "classic liberalism" with liberalism is like equating classic guitar music with classic rock.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 07:35 PM
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Equating so called "classic liberalism" with liberalism is like equating classic guitar music with classic rock.

Mr. 'Big' Swede did state that was in 1960. Heck! I wasn't even born then! laugh
Posted By: bigswede Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 07:44 PM
First of all I can't see the substance in your previous post, where you ascribed certain characteristics to me.

Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I'll be more specific:
ASSERTION: "The Swedes today seem to defend their own government's propaganda. That doesn't mean they actually believe it." Evidence?

https://parnassen.wordpress.com/2017/02/20/last-night-in-sweden-trump-is-right/
http://www.friatider.se/nu-star-fler-an-200000-upp-for-peter-springare
Also I get e-mails from friends in Sweden saying the country is falling apart with the overwhelming propaganda in the media and the way the people do not recognize how the reality is portrayed.
Note that in Sweden their primary source of information is that state run TV and radio. Newspapers gets subsidized with millions each year. They all hate independent news outlets and bloggers. There is at proposition by the government to give more over the freedom of press and the freedom speech, to the subsidized media! This is happening in the country with the oldest freedom of press in the world.
Prominent Swedes of all kinds, former MEPs of the European Parliament, The Swedish Parliament, top leaders of the business society, including the almost royal family of Volvo are constantly warning on their private blogs that the entire country is going down the sh*thole!
http://henrikalexandersson.blogspot.se/2017/02/5-juli-podden-41-terrorism.html
https://anthropocene.live/2017/02/19/the-trans-border-empire/
https://detgodasamhallet.com/2017/02/19/vad-brakar-man-om/
http://erixon.com/blogg/


Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
ASSERTION: "They must have moved the goalposts, a common practice among the left, like Josef Stalin & CO. Yes they've had lot of help from some of the MSM." Evidence? (Or, Franky, point?)

New speak was one method the socialists in "1984" used to deceive the people. It is also tactic deployed by MSM. Just open your eyes!

Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
ASSERTION: "There was a riot in Stockholm last night in the immigrant dense suburb of Rinkeby. Complete with car burnings, rock throwing at the police and a shot fired from the police into the crowd.
One elder immigrant, living there since 1972, said on national TV that these new immigrants can't be trusted, send them back, they are destroying our homes and our good life in Sweden." Source?

http://www.friatider.se/upplopp-i-rinkeby-polis-skot-varningsskott
http://www.friatider.se/riots-and-looting-notorios-stockholm-suburb
The opposition leader in the Swedish parliament said today, "We must take back the power in these immigrant residences."
http://www.friatider.se/kinberg-batra-efter-rinkeby-vi-m-ste-terta-makten
Swedish state TV local Stockholm news
http://www.svtplay.se/video/12491670/svt...-35?tab=senaste

Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
ASSERTION: "As to islam, it sets itself apart very much from christianity and the New Testament." Basis?

Jesus teaches forgiveness and turning the other cheek in the NT. The Koran teaches nothing like that. It teaches not to associate with non-muslims. It teaches harsh divine punishment for the the unbelievers. It teaches that judaism and christianity were the first two series of warnings from God but the Koran is the true last and final warning, thus the only one that counts.
Islam approves of deceit against non-muslims. Therefore us non-muslim can't trust them. Very simple, their own words.
Of course there are a lot of muslim that do not take that side of the religion serious. But how are we to know which ones?

Sorry for several of the sources being in Swedish, but that's just the way it is.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 07:51 PM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
The Koran teaches nothing like that. It teaches not to associate with non-muslims.

So does the Bible: rolleyes

======

2 Corinthians 6:14 ESV

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

2 John 1:10-11 ESV

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

1 Corinthians 15:33 ESV / 142 helpful votes

Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”

Matthew 12:30 ESV / 138 helpful votes

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

1 Corinthians 5:11 ESV

But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

Ezekiel 33:9 ESV

But if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he does not turn from his way, that person shall die in his iniquity, but you will have delivered your soul.

Romans 12:2 ESV

Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Galatians 6:10 ESV

So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

Colossians 4:5-6 ESV

Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 ESV

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

Mark 16:16 ESV

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Romans 8:7 ESV

For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

=============

Need more evidence? coffee

As I wrote above, Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are all Abrahamic religions with the same poems and same God. If you condemn one, you condemn ALL THREE. Hmm

...because if you chose to only condemn one, you're being intellectually dishonest. smile
Posted By: bigswede Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 08:35 PM
Doesn't really prove much. Some people always try to control others in the name of God.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/21/17 08:47 PM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
Doesn't really prove much. Some people always try to control others in the name of God.

Which is exactly what all three Abrahamic religions do. I'm glad that we can agree on that. smile
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/22/17 12:14 AM
Perhaps the most important passage:
Quote:
Dagens Nyheter analyzed crime statistics between October 2015 and January 2016 and concluded that refugees were responsible for only 1 percent of all crimimal incidents. That has done little to assuage perceptions, even among Swedes, that foreigners carry out the vast majority of crimes. A Pew Research Center study conducted in early 2016 indicated that 46 percent of Swedes believed that “refugees in our country are more to blame for crime than other groups.”


One can, I think, approach discussions with facts and data, or anecdotal assertions of opinion. I prefer fact and data.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 02/22/17 12:34 AM
Quote:
Which is exactly what all three Abrahamic religions do.


You read The Torah or Old Testament and it is really pretty scary: The One God is a right bastard. There's stories about enemy people being wiped out by genocide, down to the last infant. All by God's Righteous Warriors. He really did not like people who worshipped other gods.

The Muslims, Christians, and Jews, on the other hand should all be on his good side since they only worship Him. He probably really loves the Muslims because they pray to him five times a day and even their name "Muslim" means "one who submits to the will of God". Is our problem with them that they are too devout, compared to us?
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/22/17 09:50 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
Which is exactly what all three Abrahamic religions do.


You read The Torah or Old Testament and it is really pretty scary: The One God is a right bastard. There's stories about enemy people being wiped out by genocide, down to the last infant. All by God's Righteous Warriors. He really did not like people who worshipped other gods.

Yeah...no kidding. Not to mention that God is a jealous God, going around smiting people, killing their first born. Sheesh!!!! Hmm
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/22/17 02:16 PM
<low muffled snickering>

there are several ways of responding but I think this is to the point.

What you have done is cherry pick only sources which support your beliefs. It is actually unnecessary for you to provide any sourcing since in your mind you already "know" what the truth is. I call it the "arrogance of ignorance".

Now you would respond, see another lying misguided liberal who doesn;t know anything about the truth. And my response is this, I can also selectively find (rather easily by the way) sources (usually editorial and anecdotal) which would prove everything you believe. If you relied only on real factual information you would not have a case. You of course rebut that by saying it is not real facts but fake liberal facts. Thus there is a problem if you can not discern alternative facts from real facts.

Your whole response is an obfuscation of your underlying Islamophobia. I will not try to persuade you Islam is a religion of love as 1.5B people of the world believe vis a vis your singular belief it is a cult of hatred, that would be pointless, but as someone in the 1920's said, if the world is full of problems and not as you want it to be, find a scapegoat.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 02/22/17 04:17 PM
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Yeah...no kidding. Not to mention that God is a jealous God, going around smiting people, killing their first born. Sheesh!!!! Hmm


That God is the old testament god and his son and surrogates are explaining what that God means when he does something. Kind of like what Ivonka and the President's surrogates do for President Donald (Vengeance is mine) Trump.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/22/17 06:38 PM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
<low muffled snickering>

there are several ways of responding but I think this is to the point.

What you have done is cherry pick only sources which support your beliefs. It is actually unnecessary for you to provide any sourcing since in your mind you already "know" what the truth is. I call it the "arrogance of ignorance".

...or confirmation bias. Take your pick. smile
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/22/17 11:30 PM
Any big city has more crime than a rural location, in Sweden, as elsewhere. It is convenient, if inaccurate, to blame this crime on a population of convenience. Also, as elsewhere, Sweden has its coterie of white nationalists. Nordic Resistance. And it has its share of nationalist leaders, who, like Trump, act as an umbrella under which supremecists feel welcome.

As a people, however, I think Swedes are a more welcoming society. Having witnessed firsthand the depravity of Fascism, they, perhaps remain more sensitive to the implications of autocracy. But any influx of outsiders is going to create disruptions. Some societies tolerate it better than others.
Posted By: bigswede Re: Trump Forum - 02/23/17 02:40 PM
Yes, as I have visited Sweden on several occasions I can confirm a welcoming and easy going attitude. Americans are welcome!
There is a small and most insignificant group of organized racists. The group of organized violent left is bigger.
But idiots aside, even immigrants need to learn how to behave in their new environment. There are reported instances of female genital mutilation, performed in Sweden and against the law, by some immigrant groups. There are reports of child weddings, confirmed cases with convictions in court and prison sentences, where males in a family murdered female members of the family for keeping undesired company (i.e. swedes).
Such things upset most Swedes, to put it mildly.

But all of this is off topic, not being Trumps fault.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/23/17 05:57 PM
Speaking of Trump's fault... Trump's reversal on transgender bathroom directive: How we got here. CNN.

This is what happens when a neophyte President gives authority to ideologues. Note that this is Education (DeVos) and Justice (Sessions). DeVos doesn't know what Title IX is, and Sessions doesn't care. Sessions would just as soon scrap the 14th Amendment (and the 13th). What's a pesky little "law" like the civil rights acts got to do with "justice"?
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 02/23/17 06:08 PM
Going by what gender is on their birth certificate makes no sense at all. What if they have had the surgery to make the transition? Then you get people with vaginas forced to use the men's room and people with penises forced to use the ladies room.

Why would ANYBODY want that?

The rational conservative approach should be whatever they have in their pants determines which restroom they use. But not in cloud cuckoo land.
Posted By: bigswede Re: Trump Forum - 02/23/17 06:29 PM
It makes one wonder how America, one of few countries to register ethnicity without calling itself racist, is unable to come to grips with who goes to which bathroom.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/23/17 08:18 PM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
...There are reported instances of female genital mutilation...

I look forward to your next post where you discuss the horrors of male circumcision of baby males in Christian and Jewish culture of immigrants. I'm sure you'll get right on that! coffee
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/23/17 08:19 PM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
It makes one wonder how America, one of few countries to register ethnicity without calling itself racist, is unable to come to grips with who goes to which bathroom.

There's this phenomena called CONservatism, it causes people not to be able to think past the 1950s of white dominate, heterosexual America, and /or CONservatism causes the inability to think outside of the box. Take your pick. smile
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/23/17 08:24 PM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Speaking of Trump's fault... Trump's reversal on transgender bathroom directive: How we got here. CNN.

This is what happens when a neophyte President gives authority to ideologues. Note that this is Education (DeVos) and Justice (Sessions). DeVos doesn't know what Title IX is, and Sessions doesn't care. Sessions would just as soon scrap the 14th Amendment (and the 13th). What's a pesky little "law" like the civil rights acts got to do with "justice"?

It's not like We The People were not warned about Jeff Sessions. If only Republicans could govern on principle and not party. Republicans are such a shameful bunch. Hmm
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/23/17 08:30 PM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
The group of organized violent left is bigger.

Those folks are called anarchists. This is how us true progressive Lefties roll. laugh
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/23/17 08:32 PM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
There are reports of child weddings...

Like in rural Appalachia Tennessee where a 13 year old can marry his much older 16 year old sister-cousin and go possum huntin' for their honeymoon? Oh the humanity! coffee
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/23/17 09:18 PM
Quote:
... is unable to come to grips ...

it's called intolerance of the ignorant

Fundamentalist Christians make up a large % of conservatives and are intolerant on a whole host of social issues. BTW fundamentalist Muslims are similarly intolerant.

Secular government has no place for the imposition of religious ideology.

The Constitution is the ultimate authority for our form of government, not the Bible or Quran or etc.
Posted By: bigswede Re: Trump Forum - 02/23/17 09:32 PM
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: bigswede
...There are reported instances of female genital mutilation...

I look forward to your next post where you discuss the horrors of male circumcision of baby males in Christian and Jewish culture of immigrants. I'm sure you'll get right on that! coffee

That is also a real and serious problem society turns a blind eye towards. Why should mutilating children be legal just because it's the parents doing the mutilating? Human rights should apply to children too, right?

Or, feel free to continue your bigot rants. You're a good match to "the Donald" at self grandeur.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 02/24/17 02:25 AM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: bigswede
...There are reported instances of female genital mutilation...

I look forward to your next post where you discuss the horrors of male circumcision of baby males in Christian and Jewish culture of immigrants. I'm sure you'll get right on that! coffee

That is also a real and serious problem society turns a blind eye towards. Why should mutilating children be legal just because it's the parents doing the mutilating? Human rights should apply to children too, right?

Or, feel free to continue your bigot rants. You're a good match to "the Donald" at self grandeur.


Careful there bigswede your sounding like them radical leftists Commie, Trump hating, immigrant loving, Fake news believein, radical Liberals.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/24/17 03:49 AM
One thing that has been clearly established in the first month of the Trump administration is that if it comes from the White House, it is false. Therefore, for every assertion made from a White House podium, expect the opposite to be true. Pick a topic, I'll provide an example.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/24/17 04:58 AM
i can't fade the bet

it crossed my mind this afternoon that many, if not all of his surrogates and spokespeople, say he is cleaver by presenting chaos to achieve his goals. I have until now concluded he is simply scatter brained as no logical person would attack problems like a Pollack canvas as if that were a highly successful negotiating ploy. I thought about it for a while and concluded I was correct, he is simply scatter brained.
Posted By: bigswede Re: Trump Forum - 02/24/17 08:16 AM
Originally Posted By: Ujest Shurly

Careful there bigswede your sounding like them radical leftists Commie, Trump hating, immigrant loving, Fake news believein, radical Liberals.

For the sake of maintaining the correct pecking order I'll try to avoid that!
tonbricks
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/24/17 09:58 AM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
...feel free to continue your bigot rants.

I'm not a CONservative, so how would that work? smile
Posted By: bigswede Re: Trump Forum - 02/24/17 04:16 PM
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: bigswede
...feel free to continue your bigot rants.

I'm not a CONservative, so how would that work? smile

You are coming across as the opinionated bully #1 at this forum just fine nonetheless.
Posted By: Phil Hoskins Re: Trump Forum - 02/24/17 05:11 PM
It appears we need a reminder about the Forum's Guidelines:
Quote:
POSTING STANDARDS OF CONDUCT

Respect One Another's Beliefs

Everyone is expected to treat each other with dignity and respect. Address the issues pertaining to the topic of the thread. Feel free to question, discuss & debate those issues. Feel free to speak your mind regarding the issues. Give others' opinions the same consideration you would like yours to receive.

Flaming & Cheap Shots Are Not Allowed

We do not tolerate personal attacks on members. Feel free to dispute another member's assertions, but don't attack the person. Your response should pertain to what the person said, not what the person "is".
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/24/17 08:19 PM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: bigswede
...feel free to continue your bigot rants.

I'm not a CONservative, so how would that work? smile

You are coming across as the opinionated bully #1 at this forum just fine nonetheless.

A bully for pointing out your ironic and hypocritical examples and blustering hyperbole? Are you in need of a safe space? coffee

May I suggest dead Andrew's blog? smile
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/25/17 09:19 AM
Let's get back to topic.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 02/25/17 02:48 PM
During protests, it is fashionable to declare "not my president." I think that misses the point. Trump IS our President, just as Obama was their President. Unfortunately, they (and that includes Congress) never behaved as if he were, so established that standard. Also, unfortunately, he is also not acting as if he is "our" President.

By acknowledging that he is our President, we can address the larger problem: how the hell did that happen? There are so many reasons that have to be addressed - quality of candidates, vote suppression, the Electoral College, integrity of the process. We should focus on those things so, like the Holocaust, we can declare, "never again."

Trump, however, feeds the furor, because he has no humility. Other Presidents would acknowledge the closeness of the race - especially given the loss of the popular vote. But Trump is incapable of acknowledging anything other than himself. That, alone, will do immeasurable damage to the office, the process, and worst of all, the nation. My prayer is, we survive his presidency. Never in my life has that really been in question. That, now, is is something that most urgently needs to be addressed.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 02/25/17 06:05 PM
Quote:
My prayer is, we survive his presidency. Never in my life has that really been in question. That, now, is is something that most urgently needs to be addressed.


"We" survived George W. Bush. "They" survived Obama. "Never in my life" only covers a fraction of our history. Most of us here were born after the end of WWII. None participated in it or recall those days before when we were attempting to rise above the Great Depression...the worst economic crisis in the history of the world.

There have been other horrible presidents in our history and somehow the Union has survived. I'm fully aware of the stormclouds over this presidency but, still and yet, I look for the silver lining. Donald Trump will fail miserably. His Congress will achieve new lows. Millions will suffer, hard lessons will be learned. But, in the end, I believe we will rise above this.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/25/17 06:30 PM
Mr Big Swede ... are you Nils Bildt?
Posted By: bigswede Re: Trump Forum - 02/25/17 06:37 PM
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: bigswede
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: bigswede
...feel free to continue your bigot rants.

I'm not a CONservative, so how would that work? smile

You are coming across as the opinionated bully #1 at this forum just fine nonetheless.

A bully for pointing out your ironic and hypocritical examples and blustering hyperbole? Are you in need of a safe space? coffee

May I suggest dead Andrew's blog? smile


I rest my case.
Posted By: bigswede Re: Trump Forum - 02/25/17 06:57 PM
@ NW P.
Good assessment of the "us" and "them".
You mention the institutional processes, but are they really the problem? These United States of America are filled with oddities viewed in an international perspective.
No other nation has such a variety of ethnic backgrounds assembled in such a short time. We confess to being fine with that, but are we really?
There is also the flash and glamour of LA and in some views also NYC, that just doesn't come into play in the vast area in between.
Is there still a north-south divide or at least a problem, a lack of understanding?
Money is important all over the world, but nowhere else is money everything the way it is in the US.

If these topics cause the formality of the republic to "misfire", then what?

As I mentioned almost a year ago, I was hesitant to vote for either candidate. And I didin't. None of them were to my liking.


@ Greger
I'm with you! I hope this is nothing more than a bump in the road.

No, I'm not Nils Bildt. It seems he's an immigrant from Sweden who adopted a nobel surname upon getting his green card or becoming American. He is not known in Sweden, from what I hear.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/25/17 07:11 PM
Quote:
Trump, however, feeds the furor, because he has no humility

I think if one accepts Mr Trump as a narcissist, then everything which follows makes sense when talking about his personal qualities.

So of course he has no humility, he is a narcissist. Of course [... fill in the blank ...], he is a narcissist. etc

Quote:
we can address the larger problem

1. "quality of candidate"
Sec Clinton was an acceptable candidate and would have been a little better if there had not been a 30 year demonization program by Stone, Fitton, etc. And in retrospect a comparison between Sec Clinton and Mr Trump should bring into focus the real problems. She was basically a journeyman candidate, more than capable of doing the job. Sen Sanders was acceptable. About half of the Republican field were acceptable.
2. "vote suppression"
So far this Republican program has limited effect. It's only value is in close races, when very small numbers are meaningful.
3. "the Electoral College"
Argue it no longer is operating as intended by Founders. In a severely divided political atmosphere there can be little doubt it does not work as intended.
4. etc

These are but superficial problems all of which pales to the real problem of an ignorant electorate. You can "fix" all the problems you can name but it would not matter if the electorate continues to be ignorant.

Spkr Gingrich stated when asked about the facts, it doesn't matter; perceptions matter. And it is this which guides the voters. Voters who do not know the facts, but believe the lies. These voters base their perceptions on an irrational fear because it is not based on facts. It is therefore paranoia.

How does one defeat this kind of problem?
Posted By: bigswede Re: Trump Forum - 02/25/17 07:20 PM
Oh! And let me add one more thing, the media. They used to be primarily about informing the public.
But lately they have taken upon them to educate or even master the public. In the age of internet this doesn't sit well with those of us who seek better information.
Media needs to sober up!
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/25/17 07:52 PM
Nils (why do I always think of Bohr when I see this name?) ... curious as you and he apparently drink from the same bottle of Absolut

I think your observations on American social factions is a bit simplistic. So may I suggest the following comments. I suspect (and have observed in a non-scientific fashion) the growth of these factions through time in the South (where most of my ancestors passed through). I suspect farming is inherently conservative (or risk adverse) in nature vis a vis electronic entrepreneurs who are probably in main more liberal (less risk adverse). Religion played a huge part in the migration across the South with a more conservative interpretation of the Bible for example. Slavery is another example with major social impact. Often overlooked is migration as a factor in itself in developing a political perspective.

I suspect geographical divisions are only of secondary importance and only because of migratory patterns.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/25/17 07:55 PM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
I rest my case.

What are you resting your case from? The fact that you want to spew your anti-Islam ignorance and bigotry and go unchallenged? When presented with the FACT that Christians and Jews - who are siblings to Islam - do the very same thing, you want to go into a fetal position and claim bullying.

Sorry pal, the real world doesn't work that way. What you want is a safe space to spew your ignorance and hatred and I suggested a such a place where you can safely do so and not be challenged.

I will not stand for ignorant spewing of hatred of one of the Abrahamic religions by you - when you choose to not check the other two as well.

You think you're clever in what you're doing, but you're really not. Your transparent bigotry is duly noted.

smile
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 02/25/17 08:11 PM


As an individual free from ALL religions ( seriously, you've chosen to turn your life over to an imaginary, mystical, magical skye faerie) it is easy to see when another is singling out a religion to attack.

If you're going to attack one, you'd best be attacking all three, because, as I have written and shown examples ad nauseam, they have the very same poems and God.

Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 02/25/17 08:15 PM
Quote:
the media. They used to be primarily about informing the public

it is a yes and no. if you go back and read 19th century newspapers you will get a lot of straight "facts" in a very uninteresting format (almost like a spreadsheet). But then anything which can be politicized, was.

I am not convinced as yet that the American electorate is educated & objective enough to take a set of facts, properly analyze them, and reach a reasonable conclusion.

I don;t get information from the news media. I get it from primary sources.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 02/25/17 10:22 PM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
Oh! And let me add one more thing, the media. They used to be primarily about informing the public.
But lately they have taken upon them to educate or even master the public. In the age of internet this doesn't sit well with those of us who seek better information.
Media needs to sober up!

I don't know for sure if the media has ever been about just "informing the public". It has always been tilted one way or the other depending on who does the hiring and firing at any media outlet.
Yellow journalism has existed since the first town crier took to the streets and only became more rampant after the invention of the printing press.
Someone once said that the best thing about the internet is that it makes everyone a publisher. And the worst thing about the internet is that it makes everyone a publisher.

We have an all out war going on between the press and the president. I suggest that it is the president who needs to sober up, not the press.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 02/25/17 11:34 PM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
Oh! And let me add one more thing, the media. They used to be primarily about informing the public.
But lately they have taken upon them to educate or even master the public. In the age of internet this doesn't sit well with those of us who seek better information.
Media needs to sober up!


Calling them the English equivalent of "Lugenpresse", aligning millions against them, narrowing down the whitelist to a tiny handful of handpicked far right brownshirted brown-nosers and then demanding that the intel community perform as an ad hoc Ministry of Truth, why that's a surefire way to go about it, by cracky!

PS: Just what IS IT you have against the Fourth Estate EDUCATING people?

Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 02/26/17 12:24 AM
Originally Posted By: bigswede
Oh! And let me add one more thing, the media. They used to be primarily about informing the public.
But lately they have taken upon them to educate or even master the public. In the age of internet this doesn't sit well with those of us who seek better information.
Media needs to sober up!


Kind of like what Breitbart, Infowars and Fox News have done for the right
Posted By: bigswede Re: Trump Forum - 02/26/17 04:34 PM
Oh! Jeffery!
ROTFMOL
Michelle Bernard on Trump Presidency: ‘You Can’t Help But Think’ Slavery Is Coming Back


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faAZaqELhxE

I haven't watched the entire segment.
The basic problem with a Trump presidency is that he thinks he can do it the same way he runs a business -- giving orders, secrecy of operations and total control. I doubt he has the temperament necessary for politics.
And not even a real business where there are constraints and protocols but a family business where one guy calls all the shots and sends his family members out as emissaries to get his decisions implemented.
And no, he hasn't got the temperament or mindset to run a huge bureaucracy.
Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins
The basic problem with a Trump presidency is that he thinks he can do it the same way he runs a business -- giving orders, secrecy of operations and total control. I doubt he has the temperament necessary for politics.


Originally Posted By: Greger
And not even a real business where there are constraints and protocols but a family business where one guy calls all the shots and sends his family members out as emissaries to get his decisions implemented.
And no, he hasn't got the temperament or mindset to run a huge bureaucracy.

Is it too soon to call this social experiment that CONservatives have foisted onto America, a failure? coffee
No.
I think Flynn was just the first act of the intelligence community in retaliation for Trump attacking them. I think it may be repeated many times. Just goes to show you: Don't screw with the spooks. They are 1000 times better at it than a dope like Trump and they probably have dirt on every one in his administration.

Now several of his nominees have failed or dropped out of the confirmation process even with a sympathetic Republican majority in the Senate. Think Trump just picked really bad nominees? Or did the spooks leaked information to selected Senators?

Trump has a penchant for making enemies of what should be friends.
OMG, it's not over yet!... sorry, I turned on the TV. Trump's speech wasn't over yet. I panicked.
Yay! Trump is going to give us unicorns if we just clap our hands and believe in Tinkerbell.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/01/17 07:03 PM


Trump switches from masquerading as Annonymous Spokesman (John Miller, John Barron) to Annoymous Sources. Progress!


Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/01/17 08:34 PM

Trump's idea of draining the swamp: Former lawmaker Heather Wilson refused to detail what she was doing for $20,000 a month at Sandia and Los Alamos National Laboratory.

Turns out the lady got a Trump Admin job just because she’s married to a billionaire who gave Donald Trump lots of money.

This women is even griftier than Sarah Palin! Who knew that was even possible?!? smile

Way to Drain The Swamp™, Mr. President. coffee
Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 03/01/17 11:02 PM
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


Turns out the lady got a Trump Admin job just because she’s married to a billionaire who gave Donald Trump lots of money.

Way to Drain The Swamp™, Mr. President. coffee


Time for a little fact check. Her husband is Jay Hone a working attorney in NM. I dont know his net worth, but it unlikely he is a billionaire, Can you provide evidence of his so called billionaire status?
http://www.lawyerdb.org

She is a bit slimy re her consulting work, but her Wiki profile shows her to be actually qualified for this position, as opposed to most of the other Trump picks!
https://en.wikipedia.org
It didnt make sense to me that she would be busting her butt working so-called 100 hour weeks, if her husband was filthy rich, so I looked into it and found these items.

It really looks like she got those consulting jobs because of her connections in Washington, that would be useful to Sandia.
Tat
It is curious that Mr. Trump delivers a speech- written by someone else- via his despised teleprompter. And it is then is deemed to be “reasonable” and “presidential”. Phew!

I suppose rising from the mucky dregs can be viewed-by some-as a positive turning point. Still-- I wonder what world we have descended into? And where we go from here...
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/02/17 10:00 AM
Originally Posted By: TatumAH
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


Turns out the lady got a Trump Admin job just because she’s married to a billionaire who gave Donald Trump lots of money.

Way to Drain The Swamp™, Mr. President. coffee


Time for a little fact check. Her husband is Jay Hone a working attorney in NM. I dont know his net worth, but it unlikely he is a billionaire, Can you provide evidence of his so called billionaire status?
http://www.lawyerdb.org


You're right, I conflated two stories into one. I misread the article where I got the information from. I didn't realize they were speaking about two different ladies - I thought it was the same one. Hmm

The lady who's husband really is a billionaire just became Ambassador to Canada. My bad. gobsmacked


The other lady just hired for SecAF (original post above) made $20k a month at her previous jobs for sitting on her ass as her contract with her contractees stated that they were not allowed to ask her how she spent her time and earned her money. coffee

Quote:
Wilson’s work involved using her contacts in Washington to try to gin up new federal business opportunities for the privately run weapons labs.

But the labs got into trouble by billing the government for her work, and one of them was accused of effectively using federal funds to lobby for more federal funds, a violation of law, according to the Energy Department’s Inspector General. The lab’s manager, the Sandia Corporation, agreed to pay a total of $4.7 million dollars to the government to settle the case, although it too denied any wrongdoing.

According to investigators, Wilson refused from the outset to provide a detailed accounting — at any time — of how she did her work while earning fees from Sandia and from the Los Alamos National Laboratory totaling $20,000 a month.

...from CFPI article above:
Quote:
“Ms. Wilson was very direct with him, stating that she was not going to account for her time in any detail.”

Ms. Wilson sounds like a real walking, talking rectum, colloquially known as an arsehole. No wonder she has a (R) after her name! Sheesh!
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/02/17 10:04 AM


...and speaking of ol' Sarah...

Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 03/02/17 07:18 PM
And so it begins. Maybe a record for the fastest formal call for a Special Prosecutor.

Schumer calls on Sessions to resign
Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 03/02/17 09:31 PM
Originally Posted By: Ujest Shurly
And so it begins. Maybe a record for the fastest formal call for a Special Prosecutor.

Schumer calls on Sessions to resign


Trump and Sessions terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day, And, it's only just begun. When bad people got away with atrocities, we used to say, as a defense mechanism, that the Karmic wheel grinds slowly, butt ever so fine. This Karmic Grindr has shifted into overdrive.
It couldnt happen to a more deserving cell!

Sessions statement in less than an hour, on what they are calling a big news day. Talk an understatement!
Tat


Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 03/03/17 02:35 AM
Just hide and watch. He'll slither out of this with the help of congress. Republicans are so drunk on power right now that they believe they can't do any wrong
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 03/03/17 07:45 PM
A Pulitzer worthy history lesson from top recording engineer Wally Hayman.

Where Are the Heroes?

Ferdinand Sirica was an Italian immigrant who failed at nearly every business he started. In the 1920s, he tried to survive by becoming a smalltime bootlegger and selling the contraband out of his unprosperous bowling alley/pool hall in Washington. By 1930, he jettisoned the overhead of his front businesses and operated his illegal side business out of the back of a local barber shop. I suspect Ferdinand managed to squirrel away enough money while the Volstead Act was still in effect to keep his son, John, enrolled in decent DC prep schools. Still, John had to do his part by working part-time as a trash collector's assistant to augment the family's modest income.

John eventually cut out his own path as a decent if not champion professional boxer, just good enough to make some money on the pro circuit between Washington and Miami. Jack Dempsey would become his best friend and serve as best man at Sirica's wedding. John was also a passable if not great student, smart enough to box by night and make his way through Georgetown's law school by day. After a few failed attempts, he passed the bar and earned his license, only to be turned down for employment by every major law firm in Washington. But he managed to latch on with a small local practice specializing in criminal law where he proceeded to lose the first 13 cases he was assigned before punching a police officer witness for the prosecution in frustration.

While he never rose to the status of legal scholar, John was known for being an honest man - a Republican unafraid of breaking with party power-brokers to make a from-the-gut legal call rather than the safe political call. His squeaky clean reputation earned him a position as a US Attorney and eventually a federal judgeship bestowed on him by Dwight Eisenhower.

John was a relative non-entity on the US District Court even as its senior member. He remained a source of ridicule and scorn from superior legal minds who spoke of him using the profession's pejorative, "bench-warmer" - and one with a decidedly short and volcanic temper. So it was with some irony that the minimally talented and cantankerous ex-boxer and son of a bootlegger would preside over one of the most consequential trials and follow-up legal decisions in this country's history.

The hero part of Sirica's story began when an odd group of five burglars arrested while casing the Democratic Party headquarters in Washington's Watergate Apartments stood in front of his bench. They refused to reveal the name of the person or persons who employed them for the job, hence "Maximum John" did what Sirica did best - clobber the five with the threat of stiff provisional jail sentences to help loosen their lips.

It worked. What began as a routine burglary would forever change American history. But Sirica's heroism didn't end there. He was also responsible for successfully forcing Nixon to turn over highly incriminating audio recordings made in the Oval Office; recordings that would contain the smoking gun necessary to topple a president who had won reelection by a landslide just two years earlier.

John Sirica was an American hero, but this story could have been told about Alexander Butterfield. A Republican, like Sirica, Butterfield was a war hero who had earned the Distinguished Flying Cross in Vietnam. When the scandal broke, he was serving as special assistant to Alexander Haig in Nixon's White House. It was past and future hero, Butterfield, who informed a congressional committee, Judge Sirica and a shocked World that Nixon clandestinely taped every conversation he held in the Oval Office - a leftover secret habit that started during the Johnson Administration.

The heroes kept coming thanks largely to the enthusiasm and curiosity of two young metro beat reporters at the Washington Post by the names of Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein. It was Woodward and Bernstein who took extra notice of an otherwise routine burglary at the DNC's office in Washington's posh Watergate complex and oddly involving not one or two, but five burglars - a couple of them with vaguely familiar names connected to Nixon's White House.

And here, honorable hero mention should include the name Frank Willis, a 24-year-old high school dropout from Michigan who earned $80 per week as a security guard at the Watergate complex. It was Frank who alertly noticed a piece of duct tape sticking out between the safety bolt and catch on the door of the Democratic Committee headquarters. He rushed to the lobby to summon the Metro police - and action that created the genesis of one of the biggest scandals in American history. For doing his job (and altering the course of American history in the process), Frank received a $2.50 per week raise.

Another hero soon emerged in the form of a secret whistle-blower who supplied inside knowledge to the young WaPo reporters. Woodward and Bernstein dubbed him "Deep Throat" and his identity remained the subject of cocktail party conjecture until FBI special agent, Mark Felt, revealed himself some 32 years later. And it took a tough newspaper editor, Ben Bradley and equally tough newspaper publisher, Katherine Graham, to pursue the story, wherever it went. For months, the Washington Post remained practically alone in their reporting. Not even the New York Times dared to publish the daily Post reports until the scandal was well beyond containment.

But the heroism didn't stop with the Post.

After Nixon's AG and close friend, John Mitchell, became implicated in the coverup and was forced to resign, Nixon appointed Defense Secretary Elliot Richardson as Mitchell's replacement at Justice. Richardson, like Butterfield, was a war hero - a medic in the first wave on D-Day who risked his life crossing an unswept minefield to administer aid to wounded GIs. Rather than renege on his promise to Congress to support Cox's investigation, the honor-bound Richardson and his first assistant, William Ruckelshaus, resigned their positions rather than carry out Nixon's order to fire Cox. Likewise, the 3rd man at Justice was prepared to resign rather than carry out Nixon's order. He stayed on at the urging of Richardson who feared a total loss of senior leadership at Justice would not prevent Nixon from bringing in an outside hatchet man to fire Cox... while also wreaking havoc inside the DOJ. That third man in charge was the Solicitor General, Robert Bork - later a federal judge and infamous failed Reagan nominee for the Supreme Court. While the right wing Bork never qualified as a hero, even he found the subterfuge by the Nixon gang hard to stomach.

In the wake of Cox's firing, a second federal judge earned the mantle of hero. This one was Gerhard Gesell. it was Gesell who ruled Nixon's firing of Cox illegal, and who famously declared after handing out stiff sentences to two of the Watergate Burglars, Barker and Martinez, "It is impossible to preserve freedom when the zealots take over and rule of law is ignored."

And don't we know it, now.
While Cox did not return as special prosecutor, another hero, Leon Jaworski, took his place. Jaworski was a conservative Texas Democrat who voted for Nixon, twice, yet he wasted no time following Cox's lead and refused to limit the investigation - a request for which Nixon's lawyers had vociferously argued.

And then there were the heroes on the Hill - men like Senator Howard Baker, a conservative Tennessee Republican who famously demanded, "What did the President know and when did he know it." And Republican Senator Lowell Weicker from Connecticut who deeply owed his 1970 election to the senate to Nixon's unwavering support. Yet Weicker's electoral debt to Nixon didn't prevent him from delivering a blistering indictment of Nixon's role in the Watergate scandal.

Heroes and patriots, all.
Which begs the question,
Where are those heroes, today?

WBH
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 03/03/17 08:21 PM
Maybe a better question would be, Who will be the heroes in this drama as it plays out?
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 03/03/17 09:38 PM
Well I think that's what Wally meant when he said "where are those heroes today".
You're both on the same page.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 03/03/17 10:26 PM
Hmm, ok.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 03/04/17 02:57 PM
Trump has gone folk on nuts with latest tweet Sturm. President Trump Accuses Obama Of 'Wire Tapping,' Provides No Evidence - npr. Between that and his tweets about Schumer, Pelosi and the White House having meetings with Russian officials, his "defense" has become farce. Next you can expect a claim that he found Obama's Kenyan birth certificate in his desk drawer...

I realized something though. Given the totally unqualified stature of his cabinet appointees, there is no way they could invoke the 25th Amendment - assuming any of them have read it. I doubt a majority of them could reason that far.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 03/04/17 03:45 PM
The last first ... loyalty is the word you are looking for. the question is, would any of the Generals take the chance?

I did a quick review of the "evidence". Mark Levin (if anyone has ever listened to him as I have, they would know he is a weasel) promoted the story which was published several weeks ago and parts of which were known last summer. Breitbart picked up on it and of course Mr Trump believes everything in BB is the truth.

Basically the FBI surveiled a server in Trump Tower because of its connections to Russian banks. First, thinking there may have been some criminal activity between banks and later to surveil Trump campaign connections to Russians through the server. Apparently the FBI did not find anything interesting about the banking connections which was leaked last summer. It is unknown what was found out about campaign connections as the FBI is not talking.

There was no known wiretaps on phone lines or captured wireless signals from phones.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 03/04/17 07:20 PM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Trump has gone folk on nuts with latest tweet Sturm. President Trump Accuses Obama Of 'Wire Tapping,' Provides No Evidence - npr.


Is it actionable as libel?
Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 03/04/17 08:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Trump has gone folk on nuts with latest tweet Sturm. President Trump Accuses Obama Of 'Wire Tapping,' Provides No Evidence - npr.


Is it actionable as libel?


Better ask the legal eagles, but even if so it would seem the penalty would be limited to the damage. Libel law
Consider the damage already done through birtherism, without penalty. No penalty only the prize of POOTUS. It wont be a long term problem once the so-called 1st amendment is reinterpreted by the, new and improved, GREAT SCROTUS.

If indeed it is true that TT was tapped, doesnt that show that a judge thought there was probable cause that there was a crime. Maybe he could get some expurt legal advice from the AG.
Would you want Sessions defending you in court? tonbricks

Tat
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/04/17 08:23 PM
Quote:
... Sessions...

Quote:
I say...I say...boy.
laugh
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 03/06/17 12:05 AM
Mr Trump has become a clear and present danger to the survival of the United States of America. Anyone who believes conspiracy theorists, does not need to be in control of the US. Now Dir Comey has requested DoJ to make a statement to refute the allegation.

How much power does the President have? and how many people will follow orders to say shut down the media, remove court justices, impose martial law, etc. Could this president be so reckless???
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/06/17 07:12 PM


It turns out that when Trump went on this emotional tirade this past weekend because of Obama's wire "tapp"[sic], Trump had 'no idea if it were true.'

Enough is enough, it's time to invoke the 25th Amendment - the guy is unhinged. mad
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 03/07/17 05:36 AM
He would probably be okay, if he would just stop looking at Breitbart, InfoWars, and FOX News. Like lots of older people, he has difficulty figuring out what is real and what is fake on the internet. His gullibility keeps getting him into trouble. Maybe Pence can turn on the parental control on his internet?

I'm surprised he hasn't made a deal with a "Nigerian government official" yet.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/07/17 09:44 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
He would probably be okay, if he would just stop looking at Breitbart, InfoWars, and FOX News. Like lots of older people, he has difficulty figuring out what is real and what is fake on the internet.

"Some people are saying* " it's Alzheimers. Trump's father Fred died of Alzheimers. It wouldn't't be the first time CONservatives put an addled mush-brained old man into the Executive Office. coffee

* and this is a CONservative site! gobsmacked
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/07/17 10:16 AM

Trey Gowdy to Trump: Bring it dumbass
( ok, I took liberty with paraphrasing - but close enough! laugh )

Quote:
“We have the tools to keep us safe and it’s prudent for those tools to be used lawfully and appropriately,” Gowdy said. “If they’re not used lawfully and appropriately, there’s a paper trail and we’ll be able to find it out.”

Gowdy said it was “hard to cross-examine tweets” and any information on a FISA warrant used against Trump would be available to the Trump administration.

“The Obama team is no longer in charge,” he said. “So any information the current Departmentof Justice has that suggests the previous Department of Justice acted inappropriately, they are welcome to release it.”
Posted By: Spag-hetti Re: Trump Forum - 03/07/17 03:10 PM
Quote:
PIA quipped:
I'm surprised he hasn't made a deal with a "Nigerian government official" yet.


ROTFMOL Thanks, needed that perspective.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 03/07/17 05:04 PM
Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
Quote:
PIA quipped:
I'm surprised he hasn't made a deal with a "Nigerian government official" yet.


ROTFMOL Thanks, needed that perspective.

How do we know he hasn't?
Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 03/07/17 08:09 PM
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
Quote:
PIA quipped:
I'm surprised he hasn't made a deal with a "Nigerian government official" yet.


ROTFMOL Thanks, needed that perspective.

How do we know he hasn't?


I have heard say that a Nigerian Prince has bargained with Trump to stop exports of Mexico's main exports to Nigeria including: building materials, cement, machinery, etc.
For a cash payment the Prince will stop Nigeria's main exports to Mexico including, natural gas and sesame seeds.

This will create a surplus of cement in Mexico, that they will be forced to use to build the wall, at fire sale prices. See, Mexico WILL pay for the Wall!!
TAT tinfoilhat

Quote:
In 2000, two-way trade between Mexico and Nigeria amounted to $24 million USD. By 2014, trade between the two nations totaled $575 million USD.[6] Mexico's main exports to Nigeria include: building materials, cement, machinery and electronics while Nigeria's main exports to Mexico include: natural gas and sesame seeds.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 03/07/17 09:08 PM
Sesame seeds? Do Mexicans eat a lot of tahini? Does Bimbo Bakeries make a lot of sesame seed buns?
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 03/09/17 10:57 AM
The cement business is pretty flexible. I doubt anybody has a big stockpile of the stuff. You rather make as much as the market will consume because the cost is almost all in the energy it requires.

If the market dropped, they would just make less.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 03/11/17 03:32 PM
I expected the "Trump administration" to fall apart. I admit, I did not expect it to implode so rapidly. That Trump is impulsive, feckless and uninformed is obvious, but I thought there might be some adults to rein him in. God, was I wrong! The firing of all of the Russia expertise at State, and now all of the US Attorneys without a single replacement having been nominated, bodes extremely ill for the country. Like any autocrat, he is purging anyone who might pose a threat, and perceives threats everywhere.

I've been an optimist all of my life. But now I am genuinely scared. It is one thing to be rude and obnoxious, but the recklessness and unnecessary stupidity, coupled with unbridled cupidity and a prenchant for the "big lie", is beyond alarming. Trump is, truly, an existential threat and needs to be removed as quickly as possible. By lawful and constitutional means, of course. But soon.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 03/11/17 03:37 PM
Hear, hear
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 03/11/17 05:27 PM
Quote:
Trump is, truly, an existential threat and needs to be removed as quickly as possible. By lawful and constitutional means, of course. But soon.

Have patience, my friend, we're not even two months into it.
When the economy goes Trump will go. And mark my words, the economy will go.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 03/11/17 06:30 PM
The quote on Breitbart will be

Originally Posted By: NWP
Trump ... needs to be removed as quickly as possible


Once published, Mr Trump will read and follow with a tweet, Sec Sessions sees it, issues a warrant, posse comitatus arresting, FEMA black site, waterboarding, returned to Trump society as vocal Trump supporter, next week you will say how great Mr Trump is as the father & savior of America.

See no need to be scared
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/11/17 09:53 PM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I expected the "Trump administration" to fall apart. I admit, I did not expect it to implode so rapidly. That Trump is impulsive, feckless and uninformed is obvious, but I thought there might be some adults to rein him in. God, was I wrong! The firing of all of the Russia expertise at State, and now all of the US Attorneys without a single replacement having been nominated, bodes extremely ill for the country. Like any autocrat, he is purging anyone who might pose a threat, and perceives threats everywhere.

I've been an optimist all of my life. But now I am genuinely scared. It is one thing to be rude and obnoxious, but the recklessness and unnecessary stupidity, coupled with unbridled cupidity and a prenchant for the "big lie", is beyond alarming. Trump is, truly, an existential threat and needs to be removed as quickly as possible. By lawful and constitutional means, of course. But soon.

Bow
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/11/17 09:54 PM
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
Trump is, truly, an existential threat and needs to be removed as quickly as possible. By lawful and constitutional means, of course. But soon.

Have patience, my friend, we're not even two months into it.
When the economy goes Trump will go. And mark my words, the economy will go.

They'll blame BAMZ!!! when the sh!t hits the fan - just like they are taking credit for the residual BAMZ!!! policies now. (Good unemployment, jobs report) Hmm
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/11/17 11:40 PM


Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 03/13/17 06:52 PM
Well, it looks like President Donald (Massive Voter Fraud) Trump was right, there was voter fraud. It is a shame, that this proven incident of voter fraud occurred in a State with a Republican Governor, one who ran for his party's nomination and with strict voter ID laws.

Dozens of ... voted illegally

It wern't illegals,

ROTFMOL
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 03/13/17 07:54 PM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I expected the "Trump administration" to fall apart. I admit, I did not expect it to implode so rapidly. That Trump is impulsive, feckless and uninformed is obvious, but I thought there might be some adults to rein him in. God, was I wrong! The firing of all of the Russia expertise at State, and now all of the US Attorneys without a single replacement having been nominated, bodes extremely ill for the country. Like any autocrat, he is purging anyone who might pose a threat, and perceives threats everywhere.

I've been an optimist all of my life. But now I am genuinely scared. It is one thing to be rude and obnoxious, but the recklessness and unnecessary stupidity, coupled with unbridled cupidity and a prenchant for the "big lie", is beyond alarming. Trump is, truly, an existential threat and needs to be removed as quickly as possible. By lawful and constitutional means, of course. But soon.



I get so tired of being called "dramatic" and get tired of being accused of hyperbole.
I am not some political genius, all of this is just simple pattern matching and intuition.
Putin's wealth is like Gaddafi's wealth. He's not a Westerner and he's not a communist, he's a TSAR, and tsars OWN their country, thus Putin is easily worth two hundred billion dollars, at least as long he is in power anyway.

Trump gets a little chubby one around anybody worth a lot of money so you can bet his heart THROBS for Putin, and you can bet he would do ANYTHING to get next to Putin.
100 percent of President Trump's loyalty IS TO Putin, zero percent to the United States of America or its people.

And with the deals Trump is helping to engineer, Putin may actually become the world's first TRILLIONAIRE.
Are we ready to deal with a single human being worth a trillion dollars?
I don't think so and I don't think that the planet itself or its population would survive it.
Human civilization itself definitely wouldn't.

Anyone with any sense can detect a clear and present danger if they just open their eyes and see the patterns which are ridiculously evident.
Posted By: matthew Re: Trump Forum - 03/15/17 11:27 PM
'
I heard today that Trump went to Nashville and laid a wreath on the grave of the genocidal murderer and stealer of Indian lands, Andrew Jackson !!

It figures.
.
Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 03/16/17 01:13 AM
Originally Posted By: matthew
'
I heard today that Trump went to Nashville and laid a wreath on the grave of the genocidal murderer and stealer of Indian lands, Andrew Jackson !!

It figures.
.


Yes indeed, and right now he has a rally there chanting "lock her up" and "USA", while inciting the crowd of patriotic Amerkins to fury over the 9th Circuit court new ruling re Rump-immigration 2.0. Then there was a nice little discussion about how bad the 9th circuit track record was in general. Obviously the courts are wrong and must be discredited.

Jackson overruled the SCOTUS of the time to deport those pesky Native Americans Immigrant/Aliens to Oklahoma during prime travel months, winter and severe summer, as the off season rates were lower. We have already begun our own "Trail of Tears 2.0". I suspect that Seasonal Medicaid Holiday Camps will soon become established in International Falls Minn, for winter campers, and Fort Stinking Desert AZ for summer tenting pleasure, under the strict supervision of Field Marshall ARPpieo, recently pardoned by Trump and Promoted to Director of Eldercare and GreenSoylant distribution operations...
but I "digress" yet again into one of many "Modest Proposals'...

Back to Jackson, here is a cute little explanation, in Jacksons own words, explaining how excellent and wonderful it was going to be for the Indians, to finally be no longer be subject to "States Rights" I kid you not!

Tat

Quote:
Jackson's involvement in what became known as the Trail of Tears cannot be ignored. In a speech regarding Indian removal, Jackson said, "It will separate the Indians from immediate contact with settlements of whites; free them from the power of the States; enable them to pursue happiness in their own way and under their own rude institutions; will retard the progress of decay, which is lessening their numbers, and perhaps cause them gradually, under the protection of the Government and through the influence of good counsels, to cast off their savage habits and become an interesting, civilized, and Christian community.” According to Jackson, the move would be nothing but beneficial for all parties. His point of view garnered support from many Americans, many of whom would benefit economically from the removal.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 03/16/17 01:59 AM
That Jackson, he was one helluva Real Estate Developer! Just think of all the towns, ranches, newspaper offices, etc. that became available once the Five Civilized Tribes were sent off to their new home.
Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 03/16/17 04:10 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
That Jackson, he was one helluva Real Estate Developer! Just think of all the towns, ranches, newspaper offices, etc. that became available once the Five Civilized Tribes were sent off to their new home.


Not to mention that those simple forgetful Indians abandoned even their gold!

Quote:
The culmination of tensions between the Cherokee and various states, including Georgia, led to the forced migration of Native Americans, later known as the Trail of Tears. President Andrew Jackson authorized the Indian Removal Act in 1830, which would allow a take over of the gold mining areas among other places. The Cherokee Nation turned to the federal court system to avoid being forced off their ancestral lands. The Supreme Court first ruled in favor of the State of Georgia in the 1831 case Cherokee Nation v. Georgia, but the following year, in Worcester v. Georgia reversed this decision to recognize the Cherokee as a sovereign nation. Jackson proceeded with removal of remaining Cherokee from the North Georgia gold fields.[5]

The Philadelphia Mint received over half a million dollars in gold from Georgia in 1832.[3]:28 The state of Georgia held the Gold Lottery of 1832 and awarded land, which had been owned by the Cherokee, to the winners in 40-acre (16 ha) tracts. The Philadelphia Mint received $1,098,900 in gold from Georgia between 1830 and 1837.[3]:80


From the wiki Georgia gold rush. Georgia gold rush

[url= Gold veinlets (they appear white) in a sample of gneiss from the Battle Branch Mine in Lumpkin County]Gold ore for Rock Hounds[/url]

[video:youtube] Gold veinlets (they appear white) in a sample of gneiss from the Battle Branch Mine in Lumpkin County[/video]



Curse these upload "helpers", cant seem to make them do what I want! If only there were... No better, wouldnt it be, OH NO NOT THE RECURRENT GNEISS EARWORM THAT PLAGUED FOR A WEEK IN THE TETONS! Taargt
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 03/17/17 07:46 AM
I see the crazy guys at Trumpland want to kill funding for Meals On Wheels because "it isn't effective". Of course, most of their labor is volunteers and their service DOES keep lots of the elderly out of expensive Medicaid-funded nursing care by living independently.

They really must be insane to take on AARP! Throwing the under 65 members under the bus with the AHCA wasn't enough, they need some way to screw the Medicare crowd too.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/17/17 08:40 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I see the crazy guys at Trumpland want to kill funding for Meals On Wheels because "it isn't effective". Of course, most of their labor is volunteers and their service DOES keep lots of the elderly out of expensive Medicaid-funded nursing care by living independently.

They really must be insane to take on AARP! Throwing the under 65 members under the bus with the AHCA wasn't enough, they need some way to screw the Medicare crowd too.

Those tax cuts for the 1% aren't gonna pay for themselves. Sucks to be old in this country under Trump and his death panels. coffee
Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 03/17/17 08:17 PM
Quote:



President Trump’s new budget would increase defense spending by $54 billion — while slashing funding for medical research, climate science, public housing, education, aid to the indigent, infrastructure, and many, many other things.

On Thursday morning, the White House’s budget director Mick Mulvaney explained that these changes were inspired by one, simple question: “Can we ask the taxpayer to pay for this?”

Here’s what he said:

“When you start looking at places that we reduce spending, one of the questions we asked was, can we really continue to ask a coal miner in West Virginia or a single mom in Detroit to pay for these programs? The answer was no,” Mulvaney told MSNBC’s Morning Joe. “We can ask them to pay for defense, and we will, but we can’t ask them to continue to pay for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.”
...
“No, I don’t think so,” Mulvaney replied. “I think it’s probably one of the most compassionate things we can do.”

“To cut programs that help the elderly and kids?” Acosta asked, incredulously.

“You’re only focusing on half of the equation, right? You’re focusing on the recipients of the money. We’re trying to focus on both the recipients of the money and the folks who give us the money in the first place,” Mulvaney explained. “And I think it’s fairly compassionate to go to them and say, ‘Look, we’re not gonna ask you for your hard-earned money, anymore, single mother of two in Detroit … unless we can guarantee to you that that money is actually being used in a proper function.’”


Using taxes in a proper function??? If you want peace, you spend more on the military, and gut the State dept? It is extremely dangerous to send a message to the world that America wants more wars, and dont try to talk to us about any alternative solutions, we aint listening!

It is still OK to ask that single mother of two in Detroit for her hard-earned money, because we can assure her that it will be used in a proper function, like another f-35 poondongal!



Military Admits Billion-Dollar War T...tal failures.

Quote:


Military Admits Billion-Dollar War Toy F-35 Is F**ked
Officials are finally admitting the F-35 fighter has turned into a nightmare—but it’s too late to stop the $400 billion program now.


Way back in the early 2000s, the U.S. military had a dream. To develop a new “universal” jet fighter that could do, well, pretty much everything that the military asks its different fighters to do.

But the dream of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter turned into a nightmare. The program is six years behind schedule and tens of billions of dollars over budget. And now, 16 years after the JSF prototypes took off for their first flights, top officials are finally owning up to the trauma the $400 billion fighter program has inflicted on America’s finances and war readiness.

In a remarkable period, beginning in February and lasting several weeks, senior officers and high-ranking bureaucrats finally publicly copped to the warplane program’s fundamental failures.


Posted By: Spag-hetti Re: Trump Forum - 03/17/17 08:28 PM
They're still going to take that coal miner's and the single mother's money. It's just that now their children will go hungry at school because neither one will have the money to buy food to send in a lunch bag.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 03/17/17 09:00 PM
And the single mom and the coal miner probably would pay zero or very little in taxes. Certainly not more than they would get in benefits.

They used the wrong people as examples. They should have said: "We are asking lawyers and business owners ..."
Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 03/19/17 02:22 AM
Huck says ignore SCROTUS like Andrew Jackson did

This is just the kind of advice that we hope no staffer puts into Trumps action item memo da jour. Once he sees it he may just figure to go for Contempt of Court from the 9th circuit. Why bother waiting to show contempt for the "Supremes"? After all William Johnson, chairman of the white nationalist American Freedom Party, reminds us that Trump has the Army and guns. It would be a shame not to use them locally.

Tat

After a federal judge on Wednesday ordered a hold on Trump’s revised travel ban, Huckabee urged the President to ignore the ruling, citing Andrew Jackson’s refusal to enforce an 1832 Supreme Court decision affirming the sovereignty of the Cherokee Nation. Jackson rejected the decision in Worcester v. Georgia, leading to the forcible expulsion of some 15,000 Cherokee from Georgia along the Trail of Tears. Some 4,000 died on that journey.
William Johnson, chairman of the white nationalist American Freedom Party, told TPM last year that Trump may need to override the judicial and legislative branches to deport millions of undocumented immigrants.

“You could have a Trump do what Andrew Jackson did when he defied the U.S. Supreme Court and had the Trail of Tears,” Johnson said at the 2016 American Renaissance conference, a gathering of white nationalists, pointing out that the president “controls the armies.”



Quote:
President Donald Trump may want to avoid taking legal advice from former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee.

After a federal judge on Wednesday ordered a hold on Trump’s revised travel ban, Huckabee urged the President to ignore the ruling, citing Andrew Jackson’s refusal to enforce an 1832 Supreme Court decision affirming the sovereignty of the Cherokee Nation. Jackson rejected the decision in Worcester v. Georgia, leading to the forcible expulsion of some 15,000 Cherokee from Georgia along the Trail of Tears. Some 4,000 died on that journey.

According to Huckabee, this is a solid historical precedent.

“Hoping @POTUS tells Hawaii judge what Andrew Jackson told overreaching court,” Huckabee wrote on Twitter. “I’ll ignore it and let the court enforce their order.”

Hoping @POTUS tells Hawaii judge what Andrew Jackson told overreaching court-"I'll ignore it and let the court enforce their order."

— Gov. Mike Huckabee (@GovMikeHuckabee) March 15, 2017

That is a misquotation of a remark, believed to be apocryphal, that Jackson made about Supreme Court Chief Justice John Marshall’s ruling in Worcester v. Georgia: "John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it."

Other stalwart Trump supporters have held up Jackson as an example for the President to follow.

William Johnson, chairman of the white nationalist American Freedom Party, told TPM last year that Trump may need to override the judicial and legislative branches to deport millions of undocumented immigrants.

“You could have a Trump do what Andrew Jackson did when he defied the U.S. Supreme Court and had the Trail of Tears,” Johnson said at the 2016 American Renaissance conference, a gathering of white nationalists, pointing out that the president “controls the armies.”

Trump doesn’t appear to be planning on such drastic steps at the moment. During a Wednesday speech in Tennessee, he said he intended to take the travel ban case “as far as it needs to go,” on up to the Supreme Court.

On a surface level, though, Trump says he models himself after Old Hickory, whose portrait he’s granted a prime spot in the Oval Office. During a visit Wednesday to the Hermitage, Jackson’s home in Nashville, Trump praised his distant predecessor as “inspirational” and a “beloved president.”
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/19/17 09:22 AM
Originally Posted By: TatumAH
...Huckabee urged the President to ignore the ruling, citing Andrew Jackson’s refusal to enforce an 1832 Supreme Court decision affirming the sovereignty of the Cherokee Nation...

Huckelbee is trying to speed up the end times thingy. It'll just pit Trump fanatics and their ar-15s agains the military who will not listen to a liar and failed businessman.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/19/17 09:24 AM


...and speaking of liars, Red State outed Trump as leaking his own 2005 Tax Form.

The "Client Copy" stamp is our first clue.

Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 03/20/17 04:29 AM
I just wrote to Homer Hickam:
H3Hickam@homerhickam.com

"Why should coal miners pay for PBS?"
This was an actual question asked by Trump's budget director Mick Mulvaney.

I don't know anything about you beyond your heroic story as a NASA scientist who made it out of a coal mining town, but I am prepared to respect whatever view you might have on this subject.

I don't know how much of a coal miner's pay goes toward support for public television but I'll hazard a guess that losing PBS might be pretty terrible for their kids. I'll also wager that it doesn't cut into Mick Mulvaney's paycheck all that much, but the returns are, in my humble opinion, pretty good.

Respectfully,
Jeffery J. Haas - Deep Freeze Films
Whittier, California

---Maybe a few other good folks might take a moment to ask Mr. Hickam the same question. He's probably the best example of what a good education can do for a kid living in a coal mining town, and the way I see it, PBS plays an important role in a child's education.

Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 03/20/17 05:42 AM
Wally Hayman

The Canary in the White House

The 1950s were a time of maturity for America. All was not fine on the civil rights front but the rumblings for change had begun. It was a time of growth and prosperity; a time when no project seemed too bold or impossible; a time when we spent $128.9 billion dollars (about $1.2 trillion in 2017 dollars) to construct 42,795 miles of interstate highways.

The 1950's also marked the beginning of the space race which created inspiration for all of us and aspiration for many. It was a time when a coal miner's kid from West Virginia could dream of becoming a NASA rocket scientist, and on the way, inspire a half dozen local young friends to love science, too. As James Thurber satirically noted in 1961, "Since the days of Gagarin, even former religious people have suddenly given up their belief in God and now worship science."

Education was the only way out of the mines, even if it took you only as far the mining company's front office.

How things have changed, for both science and education, in general.

Now, along comes a White House budget director questioning funding public television with the declaration, "Can we really continue to ask a coal miner in West Virginia or a single mother in Detroit to pay for these programs? We can ask them to pay for defense, and we will, but we can ask them to continue to pay for the Corporation of Public Broadcasting?"

So it's bombs or Big Bird, America; you can't have both.

But some of us might wonder how that coal miner or single mom personally benefit from paying for Mr. Trump's weekend golfing and bacchanalia at Mar-a-Lago, or personally benefit from Paul Ryan's platinum, and free, lifetime family healthcare coverage.

You'd think a trust fund-benefitted President or once government-assisted Speaker of the House would appreciate and relate to the 3 million skilled and taxpaying Americans they could create if their border wall folly was redirected to scholarships and training programs. Seems a better way to stimulate the economy while raising our quality of life and sense of dignity - certainly better than manufacturing cluster bombs designed to be dropped on people in other countries seeking the same dreams for a better life.

No doubt many Americans whose taxes help support public broadcasting, the arts, education, libraries, national parks and other critical components of a healthy society have little personal use or time for these institutions - just as I never drive on 99.99% of America's publicly maintained roads and bridges but help pay for them, anyway.

But I get it. Someone worried about job security and the immediate needs of their family, may have as little use for educational television as some boorish real estate tycoon or sociopathic career politician. They may not realize that the entire annual budget for the National Endowment of Arts in 2016 ($148 million) was less than the cost of maintaining Melania and Barron Trump in Trump Tower for a year ($182.5 million). Should they move to Washington by the end of the summer, it will still have cost taxpayers $115 million - or $115 million more than next year's NEA budget since Trump is planning to eliminate the NEA. That's quite a tuition fee for little Barron. It may have been cheaper to relocate his entire school from New York to Washington.

Perhaps more chilling are Trump's proposed cuts to the NIH and what they will mean to the health and welfare of all Americans, rich and poor. Seems the man currently slashing through our government with his over-sized sickle is not our leader, but the the Grim Reaper.

I will posit this. Any society that aspires to nothing, will lose everything. Through an insidious devaluation of curiosity and intellectualism, lost empathy and abandoned governance, it will eventually fall victim to its self-engendered demise.

WBH
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/20/17 06:25 AM
Quote:
I will posit this. Any society that aspires to nothing, will lose everything. Through an insidious devaluation of curiosity and intellectualism, lost empathy and abandoned governance, it will eventually fall victim to its self-engendered demise.

So this CONservative kunt that I know from the old Gretawire engaged me about the this topic and she correctly stated that the Constitution says the government is to pay for our defense and nowhere in the Constitution does it say the government should pay for the Arts.

These g-d m-f CONservatives can just drop dead for all care - and I really wish that they would. I fvcking hate them. mad

What a loss of PBS means to me:
  • No 'This Old House'
  • No 'Globetrekker'
  • No 'NOVA'
  • No 'Frontline'


Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 03/20/17 06:44 PM
OK kids. Time for a laugh. We’ve earned it:

Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 03/20/17 07:41 PM
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
OK kids. Time for a laugh. We’ve earned it:


Ok:


James Comey Pisses On Trump’s ‘Wire Tapp’ [sic] BS Like A Russian Pee Hooker

laugh
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 03/24/17 11:04 PM
President Trump had a chance to play with his trucks in front of the White House today!

Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 03/24/17 11:38 PM
Grump goes to Sesame Street

Where are those video expurts when you need one to embed something deeply and effectively??
Tat
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 03/25/17 02:24 AM
Originally Posted By: TatumAH
Grump goes to Sesame Street

Where are those video expurts when you need one to embed something deeply and effectively??
Tat


Just go to FULL REPLY SCREEN, select the little blue TV screen icon
(fourth from the LEFT) and select YOUTUBE VIDEO.

Like this:

Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 03/25/17 02:29 AM
Thanks Jeffery,
As was said in my infuriating calculus text: As can be obviously seen by the casual observer, after a simple algebraic manipulation... After four pages of dot matrix printer paper I ended up proving that zero=Zero! These were the days when our State of the Art Calculators were made of sheet aluminum and diligently lubricated with chap-stick to avoid the dreaded crash during a physics exam.
[img]http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/132116347488?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true[/img]
[img]http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/132116347488?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true[/img]

Screw Ebay's non jpg images!! mad

The red leather sheaths were guaranteed to make any hippie girl "swoon", if suitably displayed, right, slightly off center, on your belt.
Way back then, though irrational, we all knew exactly where to find &#960;, it's right next to that line, fondly known as "hair &#960;". That also shows that even an old dog can be taught to find his ascii!
Tat Bow
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 03/25/17 03:34 AM
I had one of those back in freshman college year. Needed it for Analytical Chemistry class. God, I loved Chemistry. Especially O Chem where we got to make stuff. Had to manually keep track of the decimal point, though. No problem for me. I worked at McDonalds when we had to add everything up in our heads AND memorize the Tax Table too.
Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 03/25/17 04:45 AM
Back then no student could afford even a four banger. four banger calculators Addition was not a problem but something that could do e to minus 2.7 power or cube root of a non-integer was completely out of economic range. Without a slide rule you had to go over to the far out computer center and roll out the Catherwood mainframe to do a couple of dubious calculations. It may be time to go in for some regrooving.
Groovy
Tat
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 03/25/17 05:51 AM
I remember an HP calculator that was about 3 feet on a side and had a paper tape reader. Couldn't punch paper tape though, as I recall. You had to fire up the TI mini if you wanted to do that. First you had to deposit the boot sequence in RAM using dip switches, then...

I finally bought a calculator that could do trig functions and powers for about $85.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 03/25/17 06:06 AM
Trump says he's "moving on" to other legislation but he is delusional: He heads the Executive Branch, not the Legislative Branch. He doesn't get to write legislation, Congress does.

And Congress can do what ever they want, when they want. Trump can go blow it out his azz. All he really gets to contribute to legislation is to sign or not sign bills when they get to his desk. He can't write anything. (And looking at his joke of a budget, apparently doesn't have the ability to write anything more complex than a campaign slogan.)

Maybe he needs to watch that "How A Bill Becomes A Law" movie again.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 03/26/17 04:52 AM
NEWS FLASH: The substance behind voter fraud claims! Ex-Colo. GOP leader ... charged with voter fraud. - WaPo.

Quote:
The 2016 election was just a month away when Steve Curtis, a conservative radio host and former Colorado Republican Party chairman, devoted an entire episode of his morning talk show to the heated topic of voter fraud.

“It seems to me,” Curtis said in the 42-minute segment, “that virtually every case of voter fraud I can remember in my lifetime was committed by Democrats.”

On Tuesday, Colorado prosecutors threw a wrench into that already dubious theory, accusing Curtis of voter fraud for allegedly filling out and mailing in his ex-wife’s 2016 ballot for president, Denver’s Fox affiliate reported.

Curtis, 57, was charged in Weld County District Court with one count of misdemeanor voter fraud and one count of forgery, a Class 5 felony, according to local media.

The case is the only voter fraud investigation related to the 2016 election that has resulted in criminal charges in the state, the Colorado secretary of state’s office told Denver’s ABC affiliate.

Now to track down the other 2,999,999 other fraudsters...
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 03/28/17 08:21 AM
Big News:

White House Announces Jared Kushner Is Now Responsible For Everything

Quote:
it’s starting to look like Kushner is the de facto president, and Trump is the czar of golfing and tweeting.


Obviously Trump tried being President and decided the job sucks.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 03/28/17 02:56 PM
Besides being blatantly illegal, it is typical of Trump... Wait. That is too. Trump has spent 1/3 of his nascent presidency promoting and enriching his businesses - as he did during his campaign. I predict that his "infrastructure plan" will be heavily skewed toward enhancing his real estate holdings.

He never really wanted to "be" President of the United States, he just viewed it as an expansion of his brand. A hostile takeover/acquisition. He doesn't really run his businesses either. He's just a "figurehead" there, too, and others have run them. His family and staff are glad to have him "out from over" so he won't screw that up, too.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 03/28/17 03:18 PM
SIGH!

When are we going to impeach President Donald (Only I can fix it) Trump and remove this entire administration?

Fix government, drain the swamp, reduce the budget, cut the deficit; yea, do all that and more by growing bureaucracy. Maybe the place to start is to eliminate the Office of the President - after all President Donald (insert derisive remark here) Trump has proven any idiot can fill the position.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 03/29/17 04:43 AM
Quote:
any idiot can fill the position


You wish Any Idiot would have run. He would be doing a much better job and probably NOT trying to destroy the government.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 04/02/17 06:43 AM

Perhaps it's good thing the Mercers (Alt-Righters) and the Koch Bros (TParty) are fighting and don't agree. Perhaps it will buy us time until we can change Congress in 2018 and the Executive Office in 2020. smile

Because with the TParty - Trump's agenda is going nowhere - sans the defeats in Congress like lifting restriction on killing hibernating bears. cry
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 04/02/17 04:18 PM
White House Social Director violates the Hatch Act ROTFMOL ROTFMOL LOL
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 04/02/17 05:29 PM
Here's that story...

It woulda got him fired from any other admnistration. Not this one.

These folks are woefully ignorant of the laws that govern governance.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 04/02/17 07:45 PM
I doubt the Justice Department will be able to give him a pass on this. Recent changes to the Act call for firing the offender. The victim can file a complaint with the FBI.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 04/02/17 10:54 PM
Trump should be careful about going after The Freedom Caucus. That's 32 votes in The House. They could introduce a bill to impeach him and with the Democrats they would have 225 votes to impeach and 202 main-stream Republican votes against. (But who knows how many Trump-haters would go along with it?)

If he attacks them seriously, they could decide he is just damaging the Republican brand too much and go with Pence. Pence would be a much more reliable conservative choice and actually has some government experience.

Of course The Senate has to convict him with a 2/3 majority but if the case presented in The House was overwhelming they would seem like traitors if they didn't. This could be the beginning of the end for Trump.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 04/03/17 02:42 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Trump should be careful about going after The Freedom Caucus. That's 32 votes in The House. They could introduce a bill to impeach him and with the Democrats they would have 225 votes to impeach and 202 main-stream Republican votes against. (But who knows how many Trump-haters would go along with it?)



Which is why I am praying that he DOES go after the Freedom Caucus aka The Birchers aka The Tea Party.

I am also praying that Pence gets sucked up into the corruption vacuum and is forced to pull a Spiro Agnew BEFORE Trump's impending impeachment extravaganza.

No matter how the Repubs try to spin this hot mess, it will have damaged them so badly that no one will want to be within smelling distance of anything they say or do.
And they OWN all of it right now, the governing trifecta.
It's their tar baby.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 04/03/17 03:48 AM
White House Excludes Bar Association From Vetting Judges

Quote:
WASHINGTON — The Trump administration has sent the American Bar Association into exile, ending the group’s semiofficial role in evaluating candidates for the federal bench.


So I guess we can expect Judge Ivanka soon?
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 04/03/17 05:49 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Trump should be careful about going after The Freedom Caucus.

I rather like it. It's total popcorn time for me. smile All of that GOP in-fighting and hair pulling... coffee
Posted By: Spag-hetti Re: Trump Forum - 04/04/17 03:17 PM
I'm guessing Jared Kushner is traveling to foreign countries on our dime, without press because he is about his father-in-law's business. He's the advance man.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 04/04/17 04:28 PM
Young Jared Kushner...rich kid with no government experience...Secretary of Everything Trump hopes to accomplish.



And Donald Trump does this with the same nonchalance another man might call his son in law about helping to move some furniture.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 04/10/17 05:02 PM

Quote:
...(W)ith Trump’s 100th day in office coming up on April 29, the White House needs to straighten up and fly right.

- Trump communications director Mike Dubke


Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 04/11/17 03:08 PM
Russia? ... investigation into Russian electoral interference?? .... where is Russia???

If you can't deflect with nonsense .... bomb someone
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 04/13/17 03:13 PM
apparently Mr Trumps uses extortion as a negotiating stratagem i.e. if the Dems do not accept his plan he will kill ACA
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 04/18/17 07:07 PM


Tayyip Erdogan received a congratulatory call from President Trump for solidifying his rule as a dictator who imprisons journalists, silences the opposition, and rigs elections. You know Trump is just jealous. smile
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 04/18/17 07:34 PM

Sean "Spicey" Spicer, WH Media Spokesman, doesn’t think Trump will draw any red lines on North Korea, but we Ranters can think of a pretty clearly defined one along the 38th parallel.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 04/21/17 03:23 PM
The administration is looking for a major win. Let me re-interpret that as they are looking for sacrificial lambs i.e. the American people, to satisfy their idiot-ology.

There is noting in the Republican plan now apparently endorsed by Mr Trump which will achieve any of the goals they tout except save some money.

I wish just one interviewer would ask the right questions of these folks and when they do not respond, answer the question for them, and then when they object ask the polar question as which point everyone should know they are lying. If these clowns want to sell maybes, then maybe we should leave the answers to the Russians.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 04/26/17 05:34 PM

Donald Trump signed an Executive Order today calling for a "review" of national monuments designated by the last three previous presidents

(G.W. Bush included, for "balance," wink-wink)

You know that Christopher Street monument that BAMZ!!! designated of Stonewall Inn, the birthplace of gay resistance, is target numero uno. It's my opinion that this "review" main goal is to delist monuments. Hmm
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 04/26/17 06:56 PM
I wonder if Presidents can delist national monuments by executive order once they are declared. Doesn't monument making go through Congress, so wouldn't they have to pass specific legislation to make someplace no longer a monument?

Is there any reason Congress would want to do that? It seems like it would just piss a lot of people off, for no real gain.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 04/26/17 08:02 PM
I was looking at the recent opinion surveys and realized something.... Trump's share of the vote dropped about 9% points since the election. Either that, or A LOT of Trump voters are lying about having once voted for him....
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 04/26/17 08:48 PM
both

the idea i believe only applies to western states where conservatives want the land available for the drill baby drill crowd ... after all just rocks and dirt
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 04/26/17 08:57 PM
I always thought there was a sizeable group of soft votes for him ...

when he said wall and ban, I thought it clear he had a solid group of bigots but not necessarily would it be all his support ... i mean there is a kind of appeal to nationalism and populism among the ignorant and of course he had the hard core partisan Republican voter. There was a reason he couldn't break through 40. I suspect as much as 20% of his voter support was soft.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 04/26/17 10:25 PM
Trump's election proved decisively that Republicans will vote for anyone with an 'R' by the name, period. No qualification required.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 04/26/17 10:27 PM
I, on the other hand, will never vote for anyone with an 'R' affiliation. Never again.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 04/27/17 12:13 AM
Quote:
A LOT of Trump voters are lying about having once voted for him....


Just wait, by the end almost nobody will have voted for him!
Posted By: Irked Re: Trump Forum - 04/27/17 02:04 AM
One can only be in awe.

Trump Tax Plan Unveiled!

Who knew taxes were so easy?!?
Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 04/27/17 03:13 AM
Originally Posted By: Irked
One can only be in ewe.

Trump Tax Plan Unveiled!

Who knew taxes were so easy?!?


Which reminds me of a joke ewephamistically...

What is the difference between Mick Jagger and a Scottish farmer?

Jagger says, "Hey, you, get off of my cloud!".
The farmer says "Hey, McCloud, get off of my ewe!".

Tat
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 04/27/17 03:30 AM
Sec Mnuchin said it best .... it will be paid for by the jinormous increase in GDP (and under his breath .... but not with his windfall)
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 04/27/17 09:08 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
A LOT of Trump voters are lying about having once voted for him....


Just wait, by the end almost nobody will have voted for him!

Interesting that you write that P-I-A, I can't seem to find anyone who voted for W Bush. Hmm

Not only are these R-people, misinformed, they're liars too.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 04/27/17 09:21 AM
Originally Posted By: Irked
One can only be in awe.

Trump Tax Plan Unveiled!

Who knew taxes were so easy?!?

The single-page, double-spaced tax proposal is so simple, even Donald Trump and his voters can understand it. smile
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 04/27/17 03:07 PM
No, clearly, they can't.
Posted By: Spag-hetti Re: Trump Forum - 04/27/17 05:28 PM
I wonder if Trump bused all the senators to the White House so he could bug their offices.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 04/27/17 05:52 PM
No, they did it in the White House so administration officials could control the agenda. Like who got up to speak, who asks questions, etc.

You go to the Senate and they have their own rules.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 04/28/17 02:31 PM
White House of Grifters - NYT.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 04/28/17 05:25 PM
yes and his supporters have said many times .... so what

it is impossible to embarrass these folks into understanding who they elected

I suspect if impeachment is the goal, then all of these stories should be a part of the documentation .... as i come to my senses, why would a Republican controlled government even entertain impeachment proceedings? if the House doesn;t file charges, how are you going to get AG Sessions to file charges?

OK .... now that someone slapped the back of my head .... 2018 has to be the foundation to build a coalition to DUMP TRUMP in 2020
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 04/29/17 04:31 AM
I did not read this nor will I comment

"UK spy documents: Trump Organization paid Russian hackers who took orders from Putin" some news site
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 04/29/17 05:40 PM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I did not read this nor will I comment

"UK spy documents: Trump Organization paid Russian hackers who took orders from Putin" some news site

I found the link. It's a Raw Story article.

If true, every single thing that DJT has done (EOs, nominations) need be invalidated. Hmm
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 04/29/17 07:22 PM
I don't think there is anything in the Constitution about "fake" presidents.

but .... it does sound like something Congress (if it had the real thing) should think about and perhaps pass some laws for guidance
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 04/30/17 06:11 PM
"Yer Killin' me, Smalls!" U.S. Economy Grew 0.7% in First Quarter, Slowest in Three Years. Make no mistake, this is due to Trump's election.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 04/30/17 09:07 PM
The BEA is a liberal front group trying to embarrass Mr Trump in front of his supporters who know the truth .... he is the greatest
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 04/30/17 11:16 PM
The Hill is reporting Seb Gorkas, the Hungarian Hurt, is stepping down from his position in the administration. He apparently had a Ph.D. from Trump U (or similar "school") and was allegedly affiliated with some dubious political organizations.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/01/17 01:01 AM
I've now seen that good news at several outlets...
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/01/17 01:03 AM
A serious question: Is it better that Trump jettison the worst of his advisors and slow his collapse, or keep them so we know what he's really failing to do?
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/01/17 01:37 PM
I am not sure any Trump supporters (meaning those who go apesheis at his rallies) would find anything "wrong" with any of his appointments.

I am not sure from a political perspective if it is better to have extreme right wing nuts as advisors or simply nuts as advisors.

Suppose he fired Bannon. That would leave Preibus, VP Pence, and the Kushner complex as advisors. as advisors (his foreign policy team has been moving slowly to a more cohesive platform). Kushner has no political experience, leaving Preibus, who I suspect has no real influence on Mr Trump and VP Pence , who I suspect does. VP Pence's agenda to destroy government is more typical of conservatives to disguise it vis a vis Bannons approach to be transparent about it.

I suspect Mr Trump will become more heavily influenced by the extremists, who will slow walk government into a comatose state.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/01/17 02:37 PM
Rpi, you ID'd my conundrum like an ICE agent with "VP Pence's agenda to destroy government is more typical of conservatives to disguise it vis a vis Bannons approach to be transparent about it." And I agree with your assessments: Bannon's disdain is out front, Pence is a smooth liar and devious, and Priebus is simply incompetent. Trump has all of these traits, all the time, and all at once. People forget that Priebus has no government experience - he's been a party functionary his whole life. And I think this is all reflected in the administration's efforts to do everything solely through the GOP.

The budget deal is the first bipartisan action this term, and that's because trump had nothing to do with it. In the future, this is the only pattern that will work.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 05/01/17 03:59 PM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
The Hill is reporting Seb Gorkas, the Hungarian Hurt, is stepping down from his position in the administration. He apparently had a Ph.D. from Trump U (or similar "school") and was allegedly affiliated with some dubious political organizations.

The last time I checked-in on my ol' buddy Sebastian Gorka, he was very busy doing NOT Nazi stuff. Like waving his spiffy new name badge around the halls of the White House. And blocking people on Twitter. And hollering at college students. And polishing up his Hungarian medals - which are a tribute to his father, and totally NOT in a Nazi way!

...and he was insisting He was that he must be called DOCTOR GORKA. Because he heals the disease of Islamofascism??? I'm not sure.

While living in the UK, DOCTOR GORKA was just a kid who’d majored in philosophy. But when this stupendous human being moved back to Hungary, his history while living in the UK was "beefed-up" a bit: Gorka was a Founder of a Think Tank, a Serious Political Figure and A Former Agent of Britain’s Intelligence Service MI6. OR, he was just a total bullshitter. In 2002, DOCTOR GORKA’s request for security clearance for a Hungarian parliamentary committee was denied. Tell us Ranters why Hungarian Parliament:

Quote:
The intelligence officer said the investigation for his security clearance did not believe Gorka was being candid. “These claims were not considered credible because by this point we understood that Gorka and many like him didn’t return to Hungary because of patriotism or skills but rather because they couldn’t be successful in the West, where they were born or raised, and thus wanted to come to Hungary,” the officer said. “So do we believe that he was an MI6 agent like he claimed? No, he’s not smart enough or well-trained enough.”

Oh snap! gobsmacked I did NAZI that coming! coffee
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/01/17 06:33 PM
Quote:
this is the only pattern that will work

It struck me while listening to some commentary about Mr Trumps negotiating skills and Congress that he does not have the necessary skills for this reason. All of his RE negotiations are simple minded bilateral compromises. Passing some bills in Congress requires a multi-dimensional negotiating skill set. The WH interjecting itself in negotiations with the HFC has complicated the chances of getting the Republican caucus to pass the bill. It was always going to be difficult with the conservatives but possible. And as you noted, no where to be found is a sniff of Democrat participation.

I am still trying to figure out what Democrats could possibly compromise on. Do they legalize discrimination? Throw away any chance of managing the climate? Do they live the lie about coal? Will they agree to the largest tax cut in history ... for what? Jobs? ... Infrastructure? Will they sell entitlements to the conservatives to privatize them?

The fundamental disconnect is whether a party sees the government as a villain or the helping hand it is suppose to be. Would any conservative vote for a health care plan which was cheaper and covered more people than anything Republicans have offered if the government had anything to do with it? No Republican plan can make the necessary guarantees which would allay the fears of people regarding pre-existing, lifetime caps, etc.

Where does Mr Trump fit into this scheme? He should continue the kindergarten class photo ops and stay out of the Capitol.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/02/17 03:23 AM
Trump doubles down on Civil War and Andrew Jackson comments: 'Saw it coming' - LA Times. Trump wears his profound ignorance proudly.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 05/02/17 07:05 PM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Trump doubles down on Civil War and Andrew Jackson comments: 'Saw it coming' - LA Times. Trump wears his profound ignorance proudly.

President Trump acts, clearly, as if he's mentally ill. There is no way nice way to frame that statement. Hmm
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/02/17 07:40 PM
DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features:

Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerating your achievements and talents
Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
Requiring constant admiration
Having a sense of entitlement
Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
Taking advantage of others to get what you want
Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Being envious of others and believing others envy you
Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-condi...ms/con-20025568

If you think that describes Mr Trump .... honk
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 05/02/17 08:07 PM
Honk
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/02/17 11:57 PM
There is not an element of that description that does NOT apply to Trump. HONK, honk honk honk honk....
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 05/03/17 01:07 AM
Honk. I'm sure that psychological condition is present, but I am pretty sure he has some degenerative brain disorder chewing up his synapses. If you watch old video of him he was much more articulate and had an decent vocabulary. He can't even remember simple words now. It's going to get worse. These things always do.

After he dies I bet it will come out that he had something like Alzheimer's or tertiary syphilis when they autopsy his brain. Maybe Mad Cow?
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 05/03/17 04:51 AM
Beep beep.

Maybe Mad Trump disease...
Posted By: Irked Re: Trump Forum - 05/03/17 06:05 AM
Honk?
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/03/17 02:04 PM
sad .... sick .... @thesadtosaynotsorealtrump
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 05/03/17 03:41 PM


Honk
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/04/17 03:37 PM
Friends, I need help. I made the mistake of turning on the news this morning, and I was rudely reminded that Donald Trump is still President and Republicans control Congress. There was a signing ceremony for an executive order aimed at eliminating the 1st Amendment religious separation provision, and a vote intended to eliminate healthcare for millions of Americans, and blow a trillion dollar hole in the budget. I'm not sure what country I live in right now, and it depresses me.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/04/17 05:13 PM
well .... if you hadn't voted for Mr Trump ....

O ... that wasn;t you????

do I need to add some kind of emoticon
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 05/05/17 12:44 AM
It gets worse. Did you happen to glance at the dog and pony show this afternoon whereby President Trump bussed in the Republican Representatives to the Rose Garden in order for all of them to stand in front of the cameras and proclaim their absolute and total victory (and allegiance to Trump) in “repealing and replacing” Obamacare? There they were. The leader Ryan, and assorted underlings polishing Trumps knob and all proclaiming what a wonderful and effective POTUS he was—and is. The True Leader we all have been breathlessly waiting for, for the past century.

Trump beamed in the background (and at times foreground) and relished in their adoration for the one and only “chosen one”. Twas quite the spectacle. It was portrayed as if this repeal and replace vote was just about to be signed into law. By the one and only irreplaceable leader. And—- it’s only been slightly over 100 days! Lordy…

Time has stopped my friends. And it shall just pass ever more slowly and get way more sticky from here on out……

All welcome aboard the Trump Train.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 05/05/17 01:39 AM
Well, the House already voted to kill ACA 50 times. Senators say it is DOA once it gets over there and that they will rewrite it completely. I think we are in a non-catastrophic situation here because the Senate is very likely to put provisions in their bill that Freedom Caucus members of the House will not vote for in reconciliation. So we are right back to impasse.

If they DO pass it for some idiot reason then it's massive turnover in 2018, like 2010 but MUCH worse for them. Passing ACA just hit some people in the wallet. The AHCA bill actually murders people so they can give rich folks a big tax break. It's hard to defend killing people.
Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 05/05/17 03:07 AM
That's why they have all those PR spin doctors. It is a very hard sell this time, but dont misunderestimate the stupidity of the American populace, who are about to learn, the very hard lesson, about the evolutionary process of negative selection.
Tat
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 05/05/17 08:57 AM
Quote:
Tat

Where have you been? Hmm
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/05/17 06:12 PM
The fact is, Trump's lies have consequences. And, they are piling up. Because his supporters are conspiracy nuts, nothing he does will redound to him. At this point 40% of the US electorate is completely out of touch with reality. THAT is scary indeed.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/07/17 03:54 PM
First female usher in WH history no longer in post - CNN.

This is typical Trump administration. The three strikes: She's black (that alone could be two - female AND Black); was appointed by Obama; and previously worked for Ritz, not Trump (She probably objected to Trump wanting to gild everything in the White House). Moreover, the Trumps probably didn't realize it wasn't THAT Usher.

Then, Trump's new FCC Chairman wants to interject the FCC into conservative politics: FCC to Investigate Stephen Colbert Over Controversial Donald Trump Joke - Variety. This smacks of authoritarian instincts - attack critics with the power of the State. Suppress dissent, especially when it is effective.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 05/08/17 09:04 AM

On another blog today, I wrote:

Quote:
...Trump doesn't care what happens to people. He's rich enough to take care of himself.

I truly believe Trump is getting even with America for laughing at him and calling him a failed businessman. This is all vindictive payback.


Thirteen hours after writing the above, I watched a Frontline article about campaign 2016. The first seven minutes stated the very same above because of the April 2011 National Correspondence Dinner where Obama ridiculed Trump mercilessly. Hmm

Frontline: The Choice 2016
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/08/17 10:50 AM
Does anyone accept his statement he now believes Pres Obama was born in America? To me it was disingenuously laughable.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/08/17 10:14 PM
I listened to a little of the Yates-Clapper testimony and I believe Sen Franken is on meds or getting senile.

Why were the Texas senators more interested in the Muslim Ban and not the Russians? Is Texas about to secede and join the USSR?
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/09/17 04:34 AM
I finally got a chance to see much of the testimony, and I was alarmed at two things: One, that Yates' explicit warning was ignored by the White House; and that partisanship on that committee was so acute that the Republican members essentially ignored the subject of the hearing in pursuit of covering up the concern. My level of concern is so great I can't fully express it, but James Clapper came close:
Quote:
If there has ever been a clarion call for vigilance and action against a threat to the very foundation of our democratic political system, this episode is it.

I hope the American people recognize the severity of this threat and that we collectively counter it before it further erodes the fabric of our democracy.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 05/09/17 08:46 AM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I finally got a chance to see much of the testimony, and I was alarmed at two things: One, that Yates' explicit warning was ignored by the White House...

Trump thought BAMZ!!! was joshing when the two met during the transition about not hiring Flynn. Hmm
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/09/17 12:37 PM
I caught Sen Cruz' questioning. What struck me was the obliviousness of the junior senator from the great state of Texas. He asked Mss Yates if her decision was partisan and yet all of his questions were partisan. (I won;t go to his selective use of law in that effort ... and he does it often on other issues).

What gives with Republican/conservatives? Is it ok for someone to serve at the highest levels of government knowing that person may have been compromised by the Russians?
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 05/09/17 07:42 PM
It's actually because incoming Republican administrations believe their own propaganda, and assume everything the previous Democratic administration did is wrong and evil. So it MUST be ignored and they MUST do the opposite. Happened with 9/11 too: Clinton's people warned them about an attack. They assumed Clinton's people were just trying to screw with them.

Republican theology seems to be steeped in this moronic idea that they create their own reality. You would think when passenger jets come crashing into their rosy little fantasy, they would figure out that reality exists and you can't just hold your breath and wish it away. It's 16 years later and they are STILL doing it!
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 05/09/17 09:15 PM
This is a very good analysis of why Trump is going to do very badly every time some issue goes to court:


Trump Can’t Win His Battle Against the Judges

Quote:
But when the president takes the posture, time and again, that his words and orders have meanings that are fluid and mutable and known only to himself, it is a surefire way for him to continue to lose in court. Trump and his advisers have long smugly intoned that the media, the public, and Congress must learn to take his words “seriously but not literally.” Sadly for him, the courts have no choice but take his words literally. There is, literally, no other option.


I particularly liked the remark about the orange crayon...
Posted By: Phil Hoskins Re: Trump Forum - 05/09/17 10:30 PM
And now Comey is gone. Too close?
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/09/17 11:03 PM
Packing the court ... packing doj ... is there a coup afoot????
Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 05/09/17 11:13 PM
It is suicidal for t-Rump, but that is exactly what pathological narcissists do when confronted/cornered! They lash out no matter what the consequences. T-Rump is not thought oriented, it is all about reacting to real or purrcived threat, and this threat is ever more real every day.

Special prosecutor is now assured! Chucky Todd is spinning that T-rump was canned because of his loss of credibility, rather than because he got to close. Screw Chucky Todd F@#$%^ apologist.

Sessions approved this, according to news, but, and isnt it a very big butt, that Sessions was supposed to be recused from all T-rump related Russian material.

Now the WH is blaming it on the botched Hillary email matter!
Tell the big one and tell it to any moron who will listen to this crap.
You can smell their desperation!

Tat
Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 05/09/17 11:55 PM
I feel sorry for the transient pressidunt, since as apposed to Nixon, who was a heavy drinker, T-rump is a teetotaler for now!
Tat
Posted By: Schlack Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 12:12 AM
Rumour has it this guy has been picked as Comey's replacement

Posted By: Schlack Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 01:04 AM
Rumours of indictments.

oh why does this news break at bedtime!
Posted By: Irked Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 01:51 AM
There are two obvious candidates: Rep. Trey Gowdy (GOP SC) and Rep. Darrell Issa (GOP CA). No one has more experience investigating the criminal malfeasance of the Clintons and Obama than these two courageous defenders of Freedom, Justice and the American Way.

After all, aside from Radical Islamic Terrorism and Illegal Immigration, what else should the FBI concentrate on than the danger posed by the conspiracy of Elite, Progressive, Liberals to destroy America and turn it into an Almighty-less, socialist hellhole for everyone?

(We all understand that the investigations into this conspiracy have been on-going for 40 years without concrete results. But that just goes to prove how complex, pervasive and disciplined the conspiracy actually is.)
Posted By: Irked Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 01:59 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
It's actually because incoming Republican administrations believe their own propaganda, and assume everything the previous Democratic administration did is wrong and evil. So it MUST be ignored and they MUST do the opposite. Happened with 9/11 too: Clinton's people warned them about an attack. They assumed Clinton's people were just trying to screw with them.

Republican theology seems to be steeped in this moronic idea that they create their own reality. You would think when passenger jets come crashing into their rosy little fantasy, they would figure out that reality exists and you can't just hold your breath and wish it away. It's 16 years later and they are STILL doing it!


It's even simpler than that. Just as thieves are certain that everyone is a thief, lying, partisan hacks are certain that everyone is a lying, partisan hack.
Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 02:42 AM
Originally Posted By: Schlack
Rumours of indictments.

oh why does this news break at bedtime!

Not bedtime here, fully a lurt here. Be a lurt!


Tat


Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 04:49 AM
Quote:
Just as thieves are certain that everyone is a thief, lying, partisan hacks are certain that everyone is a lying, partisan hack.


Careful there, Irked: Your persona is slipping!
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 04:55 AM
Firing Comey just as the Grand Jury subpoenas come out is classic Saturday Night Massacre stuff. People who ignore history really are doomed to repeat it.

Eventually, Trump is going to get on that helicopter and fly off to San Clemente in shame.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 06:43 AM
Until Comey's firing, I didn't think Impeachment was a real possibility. Now I believe it is inevitable.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 09:19 AM


if you’re keeping score, Trump has now fired Sally Yates, U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara and James Comey - all three of whom are potentially most likely definitely sitting on explosive criminal information on Trump. Probably just a coincidence!
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 01:05 PM
Quote:
Now I believe it is inevitable

It must be a religious belief.

The reality is I can not find a single Republican/conservative in the House who says they are entertaining the word impeachment.

Inevitability is the result of increasing inertia. So far no mass has moved.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 01:34 PM
Oh, I don't think it will be soon, but the trend is in that direction.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 03:20 PM
Here is what I really think: Trump feels everything is a personal attack, and he lashes out. Realty is not good for him. He has direct conflicts of interest, a paranoid personality, and is publicly abusive. That act will wear thin. As he becomes a liability to the GOP, they will cut him off - especially if he starts a shooting war. This Russia issue is NOT going away.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 05:32 PM
Yes Mr Trump is a narcissist so everything is a personal attack unless one prefaces the statements with, you are the greatest Mr Trump. Yes as a narcissist he responds inappropriately. Yes he has financial conflicts of interest. Yes his publicly abusive behavior is a result of his narcissism.

These are all personality issues. Even his supporters don;t like him personally.

As long as the hard right conservative agenda is being implemented, he will not be a liability. Unless he has multiple personalities, he will continue to implement the advice he receives from Bannon and VP Pence i.e. the conservative agenda to reduce the federal government to rubble.

Shooting wars .... I do not know how to respond to that. Suppose he "nukes" NK nuclear facilities and neither China nor NK respond? Suppose he is photographed pointing from a tank turret entering Raqqa? and of course there is real blowback. They could always spin it as caused by Obama policies.

The Russia Issue is not going away. I am not sure any of these clowns involved would implicate Mr Trump if collusion could be proven. After all ... pardon. Of course there may be a thread worth investigating. Gen Flynn apparently told the Russians not to worry, the Trump administration had their back. Could he have said that on his own? or was he directed to say that? Gen Flynn is a loony tune so there is no telling.

Not including family, has anyone noticed the number of miscreants Mr Trump has advisors?
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 07:43 PM
It was almost 10 months between the Saturday Night Massacre and Nixon's resignation. The obvious problem is that Trump is far less rational than Richard Nixon ever was, and he has a slew of Republicans in Congress that will turn a blind eye to anything he does, right up to the point it looks like they are going to lose reelection.

2018 elections are 18 months away, but of course their low poll numbers would be apparent well before that.
Posted By: Schlack Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 10:12 PM
Two Three points for consideration:

Poll: Dems lead Republicans by 16 points on generic House ballot

Drip

Just A Quarter Of GOP Senators Have Defended Trump’s Firing Of Comey

Drip

Pelosi threatens to force vote on outside Russia probe

Drip

Posted By: Schlack Re: Trump Forum - 05/10/17 10:35 PM
Senate Intel panel subpoenas Flynn

Drip

Rep. Erik Paulsen (R) calls for independent investigation into Russian interference

Drip
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 05/11/17 01:31 AM
Maybe the most immediate need is for a good psychiatrist to start treating Trump. He could check out Trump neurologically and then prescribe some drugs to calm him down. Then it would be great if Trump had somebody to talk to in full confidence who won't make insane suggestions or enable impulsive acts.

I'm afraid most of Trump's sounding boards are crazy themselves. Like Steve "Let's Crash the Government" Bannon.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 05/11/17 09:02 AM


After firing the FBI director who is investigating the President's ties to Russia, the President meets with two top Russian Officials the very next day, behind closed doors, with only the Russian Press allowed in.

You can't make this stuff up! crazy
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 05/11/17 09:04 AM


Is my tax cut ready, or is the wall built yet? Asking for a friend. coffee
Posted By: TatumAH Re: Trump Forum - 05/11/17 06:02 PM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Maybe the most immediate need is for a good psychiatrist to start treating Trump. He could check out Trump neurologically and then prescribe some drugs to calm him down. Then it would be great if Trump had somebody to talk to in full confidence who won't make insane suggestions or enable impulsive acts.

I'm afraid most of Trump's sounding boards are crazy themselves. Like Steve "Let's Crash the Government" Bannon.


I dont think getting a shrink involved would be possible, as there are exclusions/exceptions to Confidentiality for Mental Health Providers. I have Italicized those that may be applicable with tRump. Numbers 2 and 7 are the most likely.

Some shrinks have avoided diagnosing him as a narcissistic character disorder, on the grounds that for something to be a disorder, it has to be something causing distress or dysfunction. This was not previously the case, but it clearly is now causing both distress and dysfunction.

Comey will be testifying in closed session next week, that implies that classified information can be revealed. This prospect will likely stress tRump out to new and ever GREATER or GREATEST STRESS EVER!

Stay tuned, and keep the nets and rubber room close at hand. Does the White House have a designated rubber room? Maybe they will rename one of the named rooms in his honor, or purrhaps as a warning to future delusional aspirants!

Tat

Quote:
Exceptions to Confidentiality for Mental Health Providers
(in California)
The following is a list of exceptions to confidentiality for health care providers in California. It is
stated in a manner that is “user friendly” for a patient who is beginning treatment and is being
informed by the new treating therapist about confidentiality and its limits. Please note that laws are
subject to revision and that this list may not represent all the current exceptions to confidentiality.
Although psychologists must always honor your privacy by maintaining confidentiality about your
disclosures and securely preserving your records, there are exclusions to this rule. Psychologists can
(or must) break confidentiality, and take other appropriate actions, as warranted, if
:
1. You are a danger to yourself and threaten to harm yourself (e.g., suicidal).
2. You threaten to harm another specific person (e.g., assault, kill).
3. A member of your family informs your treating therapist that you seriously intend to harm
another.
4. You are seeking psychological services to enable someone to commit a crime, or to
avoid detection or apprehension yourself.
5. You are being evaluated by a court-appointed psychologist.
6. You are being evaluated to determine your sanity in a criminal proceeding.
7. You are involved in a proceeding where your mental competence is at issue.
8. You disclose something that your treating therapist is required to report (e.g., child
abuse, child sexual assault, and elder abuse). In these cases psychologists are
required
to telephone and file a written notification to the relevant public office, such
as Child Protective Services. There is no choice in the matter of reporting.
9. You are under 16 years old and are the victim of a crime.
10. You are under 18 years old and your treating therapist reasonably suspects that you
are a victim of child abuse.
11. You are over 65 and your treating therapist believes that you are the victim of physical
abuse. Also, psychologists
may
break confidentiality if you are over 65 and the victim of
emotional abuse (but they are not required to do so).
12. You die, and the information you had disclosed is known by your therapist or documented
in your record is important to an issue between parties making claims through you
(litigation).
13. You die, and the information being released by your psychologist is important in
a. Ascertaining your intent, or
b. Deciding an issue, concerning a deed of conveyance, will, or other writing of
yours affecting your interest in property (real estate claims).
14. You file a lawsuit against your psychologist for breach of duty (e.g., incompetence)
or your psychologist files a lawsuit against you.
15. You have filed a lawsuit against anyone and are claiming mental or emotional
damages as a part of the suit.
16. You have waived your rights to privilege or give consent in writing to limited
disclosure by your psychologist.


Exceptions to Confidentiality for Mental Health Providers
Posted By: Schlack Re: Trump Forum - 05/11/17 07:09 PM
Got damn I love the rumour mill. Reports on twitter of FBI raiding GOP related fundraising org, rumours of Rico case including pence priebus Ryan For funneling Russian money to campaigns. Trump under investigation for Russian money laundering via Netherlands.

All sounds too good to be true. Probably all bullshit and hyperbole but I'm having fun following it.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/11/17 07:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Schlack
...


while there may be an investigation into Russian mob connections ... best wait a bit to see some actual "facts"

your lead sounded like something from breitbart
Posted By: Schlack Re: Trump Forum - 05/11/17 07:43 PM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Originally Posted By: Schlack
...


while there may be an investigation into Russian mob connections ... best wait a bit to see some actual "facts"

your lead sounded like something from breitbart


Um yes, it did. That's why I highlighted it as such. I was just commenting that I was enjoying the rumour mill, speculation and hyperbole.

anyhoo

FBI searches Republican political consulting firm in Annapolis

Its a big stretch from here to the rumour mill conclusions!
Posted By: Schlack Re: Trump Forum - 05/12/17 09:01 PM
GOP senator: Special prosecutor 'on the table'

Drip
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 05/13/17 02:09 AM
I tell you, his brain is deteriorating: He can't even stick with the same lie for a single day. Bush was MUCH more disciplined. They would get everybody on the same page and go with that lie forever. With Trump Fox News has no idea what to do, day to day!

I suspect Trump is doomed now because he has lost the loyalty of most of the FBI. I can read between the lines of FBI spokesmen to the press and Congress. It doesn't matter much who he puts in charge now. Those thousands of agents are not going to stop until he is impeached and maybe even indicted. They were very loyal to Comey, much more loyal than they were to Trump. (Presidents come and go.) Any loyalty to Trump is done now. He went after one of their own. Remember "They put one of ours in the hospital, we put one of theirs in the morgue."
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/13/17 05:07 AM
It appeared that Sean Spicer was exasperated today as he avoided answering any questions about the Comey tweet-threat. Trump has a unique facility of creating more bad press to distract from earlier bad press. The latest events (the tweet and the interview with Lester Holt) completely contradicted his press staff's - and Vice President's - efforts to defendsplain the Comey firing. As the NYT put it: 'Looking Like a Liar or a Fool': What It Means to Work for Trump.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 05/13/17 09:14 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I suspect Trump is doomed now because he has lost the loyalty of most of the FBI. I can read between the lines of FBI spokesmen to the press and Congress. It doesn't matter much who he puts in charge now. Those thousands of agents are not going to stop until he is impeached and maybe even indicted.

I keep imagining a watermelon exploding because of some quickly expelled projectile with a pointy tip. coffee
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/13/17 03:54 PM
some folks believe Mr Trump is a genius because of what he does ... I see a typical idiot doing what they do and people try to over-analyze it into something meaningful ... he is a narcissist ... they do crazy things, all meant to make himself appear great i.e. i can fire people, i can bully people, i can make myself appear great, i can extort people .... well i am just the greatest ... love me or leave me but i come first
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 05/14/17 12:06 AM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
some folks believe Mr Trump is a genius because of what he does ...

People see what they want to see: Intelligent people see a man utterly failing, and struggling spectacularly, to be President of the United States. Others see Trump as a stellar thinker and genius and voted for him - these people are colloquially labeled low-information voters.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/15/17 01:26 PM
One has to go back centuries and across oceans to find a parallel to the Trump cabal. The expectations and understanding of Trump, his family and his sycophantic followers are summed up well with this:
L'Etat, C'est Trump - the Atlantic.
Quote:
Trump “expects people who are serving in his administration to be loyal to the country and to be loyal to the administration.” And he sees no distinction between the two.


How, in our modern age, after centuries of fighting inherited aristocracies and despotic leaders is this still possible?
Quote:
One potential explanation for this is ignorance. Trump knows very little about how the American government is supposed to work. He once spoke about judges like Samuel Alito “signing bills.” It’s possible he truly did not realize that the FBI Director is not the equivalent of the security chief at a large corporation. He’s supposed to use the law to protect the American people; not to protect his boss.

Another explanation is narcissism.
These explain Trump's overweening ego and attitude well. But what about his followers? Especially those who should know better? For them, I think, it is just about power. They serve their Caesar to serve themselves, just as he does.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/15/17 06:34 PM
Assuming (and I do not think it an assumption but a reasonable conclusion) Mr Trump is a narcissist, which would explain most if not all of his peculiar behaviors, we have the following ...
Quote:
But what about his followers


Just as no group can be thought of as homogeneous, I believe there are several supporter types.
1. run of the mill Republican/conservative partisan of the most generic type (I suspect most of his Republican/conservative advisors and surrogates are this type) ... these are the high level right wing "snowflakey" types
2. run of the mill partisans (of both parties) who really held their nose, and puked as they pulled the lever
3. the large chunk of bigots who upon hearing the words "the wall" and "Muslim ban" knew they had a "savior"and disregarded everything else.

You may want to make this list more or less granular, but certainly group 2 & 3 are only interested in results i.e. is there a wall, did he ban all Muslims, will there be more coal mining jobs, etc. Type 1's don;t care about Mr Trumps agenda unless it is coincident with their agenda, which in large part it is i .e. will he follow through on deconstructing government. Only time will say if the full conservative destruction of government will be implemented or stymied by more thoughtful folks

Basically his supporters have a person who can be easily manipulated to ensure conservative extremism, who continues to talk the talk, and stir the pot. Why would they not support him? The question is, will it be enough for those who want the bigotry implemented or will it be enough if he can not pull it off?
Posted By: Schlack Re: Trump Forum - 05/16/17 08:13 PM
Trump to address religious divides in first trip abroad

Batten down the hatches!
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 05/16/17 09:14 PM
He should really visit Yemen. I've heard it is lovely this time of year. Sudan is good, too.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 05/16/17 09:31 PM
At a Besieged White House, Tempers Flare and Confusion Swirls
Quote:
In private, three administration officials conceded that they could not publicly articulate their most compelling — and honest — defense of the president: that Mr. Trump, a hasty and indifferent reader of printed briefing materials, simply did not possess the interest or knowledge of the granular details of intelligence gathering to leak specific sources and methods of intelligence gathering that would do harm to United States allies.


Interesting defense: He can't do too much damage because he's a moron. I guess if you don't tell him anything, he can't leak it. So we're going to have an intelligence infrastructure and foreign policy run entirely by staff, with zero Presidential involvement.
Posted By: Schlack Re: Trump Forum - 05/17/17 09:23 PM
To be taken with significant amount of salt

Claude Taylor is reporting from "sources" that the Eastern District of Virginia Court has approved a Marshall order of execution targeting multiple Trump associates with the operation commencing shortly after (2pm)

Not seeing anything on any news tickers or sites.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/17/17 09:30 PM
in a flight of fancy

Mr Trump is about to go on the Alienation Tour. All of his spokespeople and advisors are trying to catch AF1. If some folks were rationally aggressive, this would be the time for a palace coup. Imagine Mr Trump disingenuously giving a speech about how much he loved Muslims in SA and the orders were issued to not allow his plane into US air space.

Is this a book/movie? or have we entered May?????
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 05/22/17 06:31 PM


Oh my...

Melania isn't having any of Donald's sh!t today...

Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/22/17 06:59 PM
throughout this whole adventure she has not been a happy camper

why can't Mr Trump leave her alone .... she is and wants to be a private person ... he has Ivanka, who wants to be and use her position to be public and make money
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 05/22/17 11:44 PM
Quote:
Ivanka...use her position to be public and make money

Not too surprisingly I have a bit of an issue with this. Suddenly the presidency has become a position where nepotism and profit supersede leadership and governance and Republicans are perfectly okay with it.

The position of FLOTUS is traditionally one of a socialite embracing worthy causes, overseeing Whitehouse functions, and generally being a role model for women and families(or am I just thinking of Michelle Obama?)

These gals just want to use their position to be businesswomen and make a profit from it.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 05/23/17 04:04 AM
Quote:
These gals just want to use their position to be businesswomen and make a profit from it.


That's probably the only praise-worthy activity Ivanka has ever known. I can't see any child of that slug being involved in good works, for their own sake.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/23/17 05:01 AM
Hey, the Saudi trip netted her $100 million. Saudis And The UAE Will Donate $100 Million To A Fund Inspired By Ivanka Trump - npr. Imagine the sturm und drang if it had gone to the Clinton foundation...
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 05/23/17 05:28 AM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Hey, the Saudi trip netted her $100 million. Saudis And The UAE Will Donate $100 Million To A Fund Inspired By Ivanka Trump - npr. Imagine the sturm und drang if it had gone to the Clinton foundation...


***piffle***

It's only ok when Republicans do it. coffee
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 05/23/17 10:10 PM
Alex Jones just got granted White House press credentials. INFOWARS - Jerome Corsi
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 05/23/17 10:45 PM
Mr Jones is a well respected journalist of the highest caliber
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 05/23/17 10:55 PM
Well, he'll now be able to report the White House lies directly from the source, instead of having to pull them out of his ass. They were a bit smelly, after all.

Doesn't this close the loop, so to speak? Didn't most White House lies come from Trump, who read them on InfoWars? I hope we don't have a massive feedback loop. Next thing you know they will be going off about alien rectal probes or Hillary's cannibalism.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 05/23/17 11:34 PM
UPDATE: Apparently the INFOWARS credentials are only good for the one day.
But still, isn't that a lot like me saying "I'm only going to have unprotected sex with an AIDS infected hooker for ONE night"?
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 05/24/17 12:13 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
... I hope we don't have a massive feedback loop. ...


Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 05/25/17 10:53 PM
DJT and his terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day...
Federal appeals court maintains freeze of Trump’s travel ban.
The Slight Heard 'Round the World.
Jared Kushner Now Under FBI Scrutiny in Russia Probe, Say Officials.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 05/31/17 08:18 PM


Private, personal, Trump Attorney now now included under the Russia investigation.

Michael Cohen: Says who?

Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 06/02/17 11:50 PM
There is an easy solution to Mr Trump Muslim Travel Ban.

Ban all foreign incoming folks for every reason. It is universal, is the presidents prerogative, is compliant with all Constitutional restrictions and admonishings.

So what could be the problem? O thats right .... he wants a Muslim Ban.
Posted By: Spag-hetti Re: Trump Forum - 06/03/17 01:05 PM
The way it looks to me, Trump is tearing down every accomplishment Obama achieved. Why? I'm betting it was Obama's zingers at the correspondents dinner a few years back. The Trump does like his paybacks.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 06/03/17 01:28 PM
Oh come on, President Donald (I have to be the center of attention) Trump is recent, the Republicans have been obstructing anything Obama has tried since shortly after he was elected. The only reason I have been able to come up with that explains Republican and President Donald (Anti-Obama) Trump prolonged anti-Obama actions is racism.
Posted By: Spag-hetti Re: Trump Forum - 06/03/17 03:22 PM
Quote:
Ujest Shurly said:

Oh come on, President Donald (I have to be the center of attention) Trump is recent, the Republicans have been obstructing anything Obama has tried since shortly after he was elected. The only reason I have been able to come up with that explains Republican and President Donald (Anti-Obama) Trump prolonged anti-Obama actions is racism.


Amen. Racism lies right at the rotten heart of it. But Trump has a special hatred for Obama and I think it began when that particular black man got his uppity self elected president. Trump joined the birthers with gusto. Remember those fictitious investigators Trump sent to Hawaii and the amazing things they were finding? So Trump was incensed when Obama humiliated him in front of the (now) hated media, who laughed their tushes off all around him. And it was televised, so millions laughed with their tushes on their couches.

This insult, by a black man, demands ultimate revenge. Obama's legacy must not stand. No matter who gets hurt.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 06/04/17 12:09 AM
Trump's GOP critics are very very sad

Quote:
“It’s suicidal, it’s self-destructive, it’s a time bomb waiting to go off that will ruin their careers and political legacies,” he predicted. “Every one of them who comes out and talks about how they’re small-budget conservatives and want to balance budgets should be struck by lightning.”

Rick Wilson, a veteran GOP consultant and pundit

Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 06/04/17 02:57 PM
What do immigrants, women, Muslims, refugees, the LGBTQ community, children, workers, people with pre-existing conditions, Sean Spicer, diplomatic protocol officers, endangered species, rural citizens, city-dwellers, journalists and police officers have in common? They're all worse off since Trump took office, and, more importantly, they're (mostly) AMERICANS. Trump has an unhealthy hatred of Obama, it is true, but he's taking it out on all of us, and mostly the most vulnerable. We don't need to wait for history's judgement. He's already the worst President we've ever had.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 06/05/17 05:00 PM
I was reading a totally unrelated article today, when I came across this little anecdote:
Quote:
“As a rule, strong feelings about issues do not emerge from deep understanding,” Sloman and Fernbach write. And here our dependence on other minds reinforces the problem. If your position on, say, the Affordable Care Act is baseless and I rely on it, then my opinion is also baseless. When I talk to Tom and he decides he agrees with me, his opinion is also baseless, but now that the three of us concur we feel that much more smug about our views. If we all now dismiss as unconvincing any information that contradicts our opinion, you get, well, the Trump Administration.
Why Facts Don't Change Our Minds - the New Yorker.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 06/07/17 05:34 PM


What great news do we plebes have of our awesome and wonderful BLOATUS...erm, POTUS today? Hmm

How Donald Trump Stuck His Grubby Stubby Little Fingers Into Kids' Cancer-Charity Pie
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 06/07/17 10:13 PM
I liked the part about him blowing his lid when he found out his golf course was treating the charity well, charitably. I guess missing an opportunity to screw somebody, get a tax deduction, and launder some money is sinful.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 06/08/17 11:14 PM
I am a bit amused by the claim Sen Risch made that Mr Trump did not order xDir Comey to end investigation, because Mr Trump did not use the words "I order you ...".

If Mr Trump wanted to order someone to do something he could just issue a memo. If he however wanted a favor from xDir Comey, he would have hoped xDir Commey could end the investigation.

Can the President ask a favor without it being an order?
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 06/09/17 02:20 AM
Yes he can, but since he fired Comey after Comey failed to break the law at his request I guess it was an order after all!

Once again, the cover-up is far worse than the original crime. If he hadn't fired Comey, then it would have just been "a favor". Trump made it an impeachable High Crime, but that's not too surprising. The list is as long as your arm and it's all stupid decisions by Trump. There's a reason why Presidents often have legal training.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 06/12/17 03:38 AM

Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 06/12/17 12:18 PM
I suspect when a President wants something he may use a variety of words which ultimately mean, get it done.

It crossed my mind (as little as it is) over the weekend that there may be a very real prospect which no one wants to mention. If the Presidents fires Mueller what is to keep the President from following any laws? What if the House asked the President to step down and he said GFY? Would the police arrest the President? What if the military would not comply? Mr Trump already believes he is above the law. Republicans have all supported him (even if weakly). I can see a real Constitutional crisis based on historical facts regarding this president.

With half (approximating loosely) the country supporting the president, I can easily see Mr Trump taking the steps to move quickly to dictatorship and there not be any easy way of opposing him.

Like I said just some thoughts as they crossed my wee small brain.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 06/12/17 04:44 PM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Like I said just some thoughts as they crossed my wee small brain.

All very valid points.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 06/12/17 05:43 PM
No, because all military, FBI, and Secret Service swear to defend the Constitution. That is their primary loyalty and they have very little support for the idea of a dictatorship. Congress has to impeach him or remove him, and then essentially everyone in all such services will see Pence as President.

Trump made a huge mistake in firing Comey. He was well liked and most FBI agents are more loyal to him than to Trump. FBI agents are highly educated and highly professional. They know Trump is a moron unworthy of their respect. If they had a legal reason to put him on the helicopter to San Clemente, they would.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 06/12/17 06:30 PM
Quote:
all military, FBI, and Secret Service swear to defend the Constitution

correct but here is the kicker .... Mr Trump demands personal loyalty from people who serve him

now consider, did the generals serving in his administration pledge personal loyalty to Mr Trump as well as take an oath to uphold the Constitution. Which has greater currency with the president? Would those generals come to their senses and support the Constitution? Remember Gen Kelley has probably drunk the krazy koolaid as he is defending Mr Trump for whatever position.

Do these generals have enough loyalty among the military? Would you take a chance the military which overwhelmingly supports Mr Trumps would not follow illegal orders?

Just saying, the situation is closer than at any time in history for a president to take advantage of his power because his supporters are personally loyal to him and not the Constitution.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 06/12/17 07:20 PM
Re: military loyalty. There are commanders that engender great respect and loyalty (and, of course, those who don't). By and large, though, they just "pass through" your career. It's planned that way. It keeps a commander from gathering too many followers. Trump has no military experience (and it shows). He has no loyalty to subordinates. I wouldn't expect many to support him.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 06/12/17 10:14 PM
In a modern world where morality has lost its value, in a world where POTUS makes claims to beliefs in illegal acts, and numerous military personal as well as law enforcement entities agree with him, it is incumbent on civilians to remain vigilant.

Historically the military has remained aloof to political changes, but in a highly polarized arena, in a world fraught with dangers, in a world where the POTUS is incompetent, might some senior officers in collusion with cabinet level generals decide a streamlined unity executive branch would be far more effective than a democracy? Would their personal loyalty transcend their oath to the Constitution? I don't know.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 06/13/17 03:00 AM

Rumorhazzit that Trump is going to fire Mueller. I guess Trump thinks that he can fire his way to "innocence." Hmm

Representative Adam Schiff (D-CA) who sits on the House Intelligence Committee Tweeted out that if Trump fires Mueller, the House will rehire him to complete the investigation and for Trump not to waste anyone's time.

Posted By: Irked Re: Trump Forum - 06/14/17 02:00 AM
What in the world would lead Representative Shiff (D-CA) to believe that the Real Americans controlling (thank the Almighty!) all three branches of government (and especially the House of Representatives) would ever even dream of doing such a thing as hiring Mueller to investigate President Donald J. Trump (R)?
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 06/14/17 08:40 AM


Jeff Sessions to Kamala Harris: "You're making me nervous."

Awwww...big, strong, black woman making the poor little old cuck nervous. Kamala Harris should have gotten up and bitch-slapped Jeff Session for being a whiny old man.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 06/14/17 08:57 PM
Why do we have an AG who can't remember anything? Is he suffering from dementia?

Follow this --> He was not briefed in any way about the Russia Investigation --> He was asked if every main campaign player had contact with Russia and he answered he did not know --> he then proudly stated he KNEW no one colluded with the Russians

How could he KNOW no one colluded if he didn't know if anyone had contact?

I would have hoped an AG could think logically but I may be wrong
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 06/15/17 01:22 AM
Quote:
I would have hoped an AG could think logically but I may be wrong


Normally, yes. But this isn't your run of the mill AG. This is a Trump pick. You know, the worst possible. incompetent, racist, cracker ahole. And now we find out he is senile on top of all that. I guess he told them at his confirmation that he wasn't racist because he forgot he hates Blacks and Jews.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 06/15/17 04:12 PM
Since when is hating blacks and Jews (and gays) not a qualification?

If Mueller was not investigating Sessions before this, he should be now.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 06/15/17 04:43 PM
And what's with this new idea of not answering questions when under oath before a Congressional hearing "because I don't wanna"? Sack up, guys! You have the power to make them answer, with Contempt of Congress charges and jail. It's pretty damned obvious this can only work if the majority Party is in on it, and doesn't want to hear the answer.

We should charge the heads of those committees with Obstruction of Justice as well, because that's exactly what they are doing. Watergate sent about 200 people to jail before it was over. Only a few were part of the original crime. Everybody else was involved in the cover-up.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 06/18/17 02:00 PM
Comparing presidential administrations by arrests and convictions: A warning for Trump appointees.

What is startling is the consistency. Over 50 years: Republicans, 55 convictions; Dems, 1. Note, too, that the Republican number was sharply reduced, by pardons (Ford, Bush I&II), clemency (Bush I), and overturned convictions (Reagan).
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 06/18/17 02:03 PM
Did you notice, by the way, that Sessions was only rude to women and Senators of color? It was blatant.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 06/18/17 04:20 PM
Mueller is coming for Trump - Slate.
Quote:
What you don’t know can hurt you very badly, and there is a great deal that Republicans do not know about Donald Trump. From shady business dealings to questionable tax schemes to potential Russian collusion, the president is dogged by scandals whose depth and significance remain unclear. With few exceptions, Republicans are eager to protect Trump from serious inquiries, running interference where they can while pushing through their legislative agenda as quickly and secretively as possible. The GOP isn’t quite sure what it’s helping Trump to cover up—but as long as he promises to sign its bills, the party will condone his outrageous misdeeds.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 06/19/17 03:38 AM
The really stupid thing is that President Pence would sign all their bills too, without all the uproar over all the impeachable offenses they are ignoring. As far as I can see, keeping Trump has no positive benefit for them. Just lots of negatives, with the added possibility of lots of people going to jail for the cover-up.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 06/19/17 04:01 AM
It's a catch 22 for Republicans. He is still supported by the same base that keeps them in office. They've gotta protect him or get primaried for being traitors to the party.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 06/19/17 04:03 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Watergate sent about 200 people to jail before it was over. Only a few were part of the original crime. Everybody else was involved in the cover-up.


And they've never forgotten it either.
The last forty years of Republican control, when they had it, has amounted to a thinly veiled continuous temper tantrum over the fact that the American people punished them and would not allow them to GET AWAY WITH IT.

They've since decided that they're going to teach us a lesson we'll never forget.
Posted By: Spag-hetti Re: Trump Forum - 06/19/17 03:15 PM
Quote:
According to Fox News:
White House Counselor Kellyanne Conway suggested Monday that the head of the Russia investigation should fully disclose the names of the attorneys he’s hired after it was revealed several Democratic donors are part of the team scrutinizing the Trump administration at the highest levels.

“I think it’s relevant information that the public should have,” Conway told “Fox & Friends.”


I guess she's worried that they won't be able to find the alternate facts.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 06/19/17 03:49 PM
I think FOX is anticipating a name change: They dropped the "fair and balanced" lietag-line in preparation for the adjustment. I think they are going to just rename it TTFN - "The Trump Friendly Network." Fox and Friends will become Donald's Friends; Hannity will will replace Mike Dubke, as Donald Trump's communications director (since he's already doing the job); Tucker Carlson's "Daily Caller" will re-register as a PAC - since it already is one, and he'll become the "anchor" for the "Trump Organization TV Hour" - oh wait, he already is...
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 06/19/17 07:48 PM
But seriously, Fox will indeed be undergoing a change but not the kind you think it might be.
On the contrary, Fox News Channel, while still a formidable player in cable news ratings, has met its match.
Sinclair Broadcast Group was already one of the largest local station owners in the country thanks to loose ownership regs at the FCC in recent years.
Now they are poised to become THE LARGEST.
And it's not just the numbers either...as they saying goes: Location, location, location.

SBG will now enjoy SEVENTY PERCENT LOCAL MARKET PENETRATION thanks to their recent purchase of most of the former Tribune Broadcasting collection of local affiliates, and they are all in key battleground states.
And SBG is several steps to the RIGHT of Fox News Channel, so much so that it is difficult to imagine FNC going even further to the right of SBG short of openly editorializing about bringing back slavery, advocating for beheading women and opening oven facilities for unfriendly Jews around the nation.

Rupert Murdoch probably won't be around in five years time, and he has alread ceded much of his creative and editorial control to his kids, who are more libertarian than anything else.
They HATED Roger Ailes and weren't too fond of Bill-O outside of the fact that he brought in money. Once that slowed, they couldn't wait to dump him.
They are now virtually rudderless as far as a monster ratings personality.

This means they are ill-prepared to deal with the SBG juggernaut which is just around the corner.



Therefore, I predict that in the coming months and years, Fox News Channel will slowly commence a series of very subtle shifts toward the center.
Yes, the CENTER, where there are more people under the age of 65, less people living on fixed incomes, less crotchety, angry, bitter old white males who don't buy much of anything anyway.

Fox is already being attacked by the alt-Right true believers as a "cuck" network anyway, so the true believers are looking for a new network to get behind.

Does SBG have its own cable news channel?
Not yet.
Guess what, when you already own a giant news PACKAGING operation and several hundred local affiliates, shooting your signal to a bird up there in the sky is cheap, easy and even more effective, seeing as how SBG is already doing it anyway to beam their content TO their affiliates now.

So it's just a matter of expanding and refining the lineup, inflating the sat time contract, making their frequency a dedicated one and doing some branding.
BLAMMO, welcome to SBG News Channel, the "NEW Fox News Channel".
It's GONNA happen, count on it.

And Fox News Channel is going to move in whatever direction keeps the money flowing in. The kids won't bat an eye about giving walker and scooter crowd the heave-ho if they can trade them for a few million younger, upwardly mobile and well heeled independents.

They are going to go where the money is.
SBG has already laid claim to whatever money exists in true believer territory.
You just don't know it yet.
But I do...I was in this business, I know how format changes work.

Lastly, I mourn what is sure to be the impending death of one of my own favorite local stations, at least as we know it today anyway.
KTLA Channel 5, a former Tribune station, was one of the outlets snapped up by Sinclair.

It won't be long before KTLA's centrist and liberal friendly look and feel will be transformed into Trump friendliness.
I'm already seeing ads for stuff that rankles any sane independent.



Those ads only started running AFTER SBG bought the station.
Next, they'll start "fine tuning" the news content frown
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 06/22/17 06:10 PM


Our bloated orange President lied about the Comey 'tapes.' Quelle surprise. Hmm
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 06/23/17 01:19 PM
The very intelligent Trump just publicly bragged that his "tapes" Twitter thing was a ruse to try and influence Comey's testimony. That's a very shrewd move by someone who is under investigation for obstruction of justice, don't you think?

Trump on Fox and Friends
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 06/23/17 02:31 PM
here's the problem with that logT

he was not under investigation (as far as anyone has said) at the time .... he probably is now

it strikes me as odd Mr Trump would say something like that for this reason .... he either did or did not say what xDir Comey alleges.
if recordings exist:
if Mr Trump said it then the 2 narratives should be the same
if Mr Trump did not say it, then the recordings would expose Comey or the president as a liar
as an aside: the recordings do exist but corroborate Comey and have subsequently been expunged
otherwise they would have been produced to support Mr Trump's version

if recordings don't exist:
if Mr Trump said it, the threat recordings may exist would make the narratives the same
if Mr Trump did not say it, the threat would force Comey to tell the correct version

by threatening Comey with possibility of recordings, Mr Trump almost guarantees xDir Comey;s allegations are true

o the case for Comey changing his story is false. xDir Comey has maintained the exact same story
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 06/23/17 03:29 PM
Like your logic.

In addition the whole episode is proof that President Donald (I am a ....) Trump is a liar and therefor can not be trusted. Now only if his base could see it Hmm
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 06/23/17 05:26 PM
Trump is a practitioner of a rather more chaotic version of CONROT - a version where words can mean the opposite thang in such a flexible way that only Propaganda Barbie has the talent and skill to explain. 'Alternating facts' are a more sublime rendering of 'alternative facts'.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 06/23/17 07:32 PM
there is nothing coherent or rational about anything a narcissist does or says. one should first think what does it mean in the context of his narcissism before making allusions to how politically savvy he is, or in general what a brilliant thinker he is. One can do this without breaking a sweat or becoming Goldberg.

Today Mr Trump signed some VA bill and there was a vet who gave a speech ... well .... not really a speech but a paean to the greatness of Mr Trump all before he triumphantly entered the room

feed the beast
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 06/23/17 10:13 PM
Quote:
try and influence Comey's testimony


Prosecutors call that Witness Tampering. People go to prison for that. Yet another charge gets added to the Impeachment list.

It's a wonder that Trump has never served time. He doesn't seem to be aware of what is criminal and what is not.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 06/23/17 10:37 PM
By definition; if Trump does it, then it's not criminal.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 06/23/17 11:12 PM
a narcissist would believe he is above the law and the rules do not apply ... Mr Trump has said it in a variety of ways .... he could shoot etc ... presidents can not commit etc ... and surrogates, like spkr Gingrich, say it as well

obviously if a president can be impeached for "high crimes and misdemeanors" then a president can commit a crime
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 06/23/17 11:13 PM
Remember this?
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
First female usher in WH history no longer in post - CNN.

This is typical Trump administration. The three strikes: She's black (that alone could be two - female AND Black); was appointed by Obama; and previously worked for Ritz, not Trump (She probably objected to Trump wanting to gild everything in the White House). Moreover, the Trumps probably didn't realize it wasn't THAT Usher.

well, color me surprised.... First lady recruits Trump hotel employee to be White House chief usher
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 06/23/17 11:33 PM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer

Mel's boy-toy?
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 06/24/17 04:57 AM
Trump obviously thinks a President can act like the CEO of a privately held company. Even CEOs of public companies have to act very much more aware of the legal niceties. Presidents of the US have way more scrutiny from the press, from members of the opposition, even from members of their own Party.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 06/29/17 06:30 PM
From CHBs Front Page today June 29, 2017 "And we all know about men with small hands and we also know that Trump’s mind is all too often between his legs."

The only question left to be answered is the front side or the back side of his legs?

LOL
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 07/08/17 11:43 PM


Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. I title this picture: Trump - a scourge among Leaders


Posted By: matthew Re: Trump Forum - 07/10/17 12:11 AM
'

Norway: Trump a 'pure sociopath', Paul Ryan 'despicable' – Jeffrey Sachs lays into US 'dark money'



.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 07/10/17 02:30 AM
almost looks like a sequence of photos i took a couple of years ago

i was birding a small pond where a group of assorted water birds (ducks, pipers, stilts, grebes) were huddled up feeding on shore and about 15 yards away a black vulture was looking at the crowd. apparently the vulture became inquisitive and approached the crowd and as it got near all the water birds scattered into the pond. thats when the vulture turned around and looked at me as i was photographing the scene with a look which said [do i smell, whats up, and you can fill in some cute caption].

Looks like he is waiting on someone to save him
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 07/26/17 07:43 PM
In case any of you folks are having a nice day I shall quickly put an end to that. If this article is correct, get used to having Mr. Trump as POTUS for a full eight years.

Quote:
In other words, Democrats need to take back the Mahoning Valley if they’re going to take back the White House. And, given Trump’s showing here, that may be more difficult than firing up the Jeannette Blast Furnace at Youngstown Sheet and Tube, which went cold in 1977 and has stayed that way.


Link
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 07/27/17 06:50 PM
Adam Kontras not only owns The Fastest DeLorean In The World, he also owns a political sentience worth sharing.

Adam Kontras

Everything you've ever felt about this country is now being put to a test. We read about this s*** when we were kids. Other countries that went through this. Many of them failed because their constitution didn't have the right checks and balances. We believed it couldn't happen to us, but here we are.

On one hand this is terrifying, on the other it's fascinating. It's a schizophrenic year to be sure. But make no mistake: this is a test of a 250 year old document. Literally everything they talked about is now FRONT AND CENTER and we have to depend on, gulp, the Republican party to handle it. If this system is set-up correctly? Political pressure will get to them (yes, even them). This isn't about right and wrong, it's truly about whether the "pressure" still works. I contend that an abject lack of a functioning media will make it more difficult, but either way - that's what we're finding out right now: does it work. Does this piece of paper written in the 1700s WORK.

Try and look at it this way. I know it seems we're rolling back progressive issues at a dizzying pace but we really aren't. Nothing can't be corrected so far. However, we're certainly in unprecedented territory. It's very possible the constitution never foresaw THIS and the experiment that is our democracy will be over. Thankfully - there are other countries on this planet and we don't need to colonize Mars.

But truly? This is an easy test and one we can almost be thankful to Trump for: he's painfully obvious, clearly corrupt - he brags about everything from sexual assault to obstruction of justice. He says it IN [censored] INTERVIEWS. This is EASY.

Let's see what happens next.

Or...you can just watch the world's fastest DeLorean.

Posted By: itstarted Re: Trump Forum - 07/28/17 09:27 PM
Some hope...
John Kelly went to my school... albeit 17 yrs apart.
Fort Benning Infantry Officers Candidate School... smile
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 07/28/17 09:45 PM
Why would he, General Kelly, take the White House Chief of Staff job. Does he think the Mooch and Bannin will do what he tells them? Bannin, tho Ex Navy, does not believe anybody knows more than he does and has authority issues. Now the Mooch, is more like President Donald (Egotistical Narcissist) Trump and won't consider the White House Chief of Staff to be above him.

I give this trio 6 to 8 months at most. I think we'll see the first signs of friction by the end of August if that long.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 07/28/17 10:56 PM
I can't speak to the analysis except to say the article is typical of many which characterize Trump supporters as just plain ignorant.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 07/29/17 12:49 AM
It's just the theme of The Apprentice. That's what Trump knows. It's all about ratings and nothing gets the audience riled up like a good firing.

I assume everyone there knows it by now. They are only there so Trump can blame them for some of his (many) mistakes and fire them. Everybody will eventually be the scapegoat when a scapegoat is needed.

This is why I always hated The Apprentice. I don't like shows about stupid people and the idiotic things they do. As an engineer who never wanted to go into management, I really hate bosses who are clueless. The Apprentice was both.

You and I know he was just frustrated because everybody tells him he can't fire Sessions, so he had to fire somebody.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 07/29/17 03:42 PM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I can't speak to the analysis except to say the article is typical of many which characterize Trump supporters as just plain ignorant.

If it walks like a duck...
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 08/01/17 01:20 AM
I don't think ANY of the Trump clan realized how exposed they would be by the presidential run (or that Don Senior might win). What has been most exposed is how avaricious they are, and how collectively stupid they are. I think if you added up their IQs, you might get an average IQ. Putin has gotten everything he wants.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 08/01/17 02:29 AM
Even now in what appears to be a complete repudiation by Putin for expulsion of US diplomats, I suspect there may be plans within plans. Note Mr Trump has not as yet signed the sanctions bill. This may offer him some cover should he decide not to sign it and provide what may appear as a legitimate reason not to sign it. This may force Congress to reconsider.

Or it could be the whole thing is meant to provide a variety of avenues for speculation leading nowhere.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/01/17 04:07 AM
The voting was nearly unanimous in Congress. Way beyond veto-proof. All Trump can do is to wait the full 10 days, then it's law.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 08/01/17 05:02 AM
I think Putin's game is pretty straightforward. He's giving Trump a "bargaining chip" wink wink, nudge nudge, that he can "use" so Trump can give Putin what he wants and he doesn't have to "give up" anything of substance. The compounds they "took" are relatively unimportant, and most of the "staff" are Russians.
Quote:
Altogether, the U.S. government employs more than an estimated 1,200 people in Russia. The majority are hired by the State Department, charged with running the U.S. Embassy and consulates, processing visas and handling other diplomatic tasks. But it also includes employees of dozens of governmental agencies and departments, like the Defense Department, the Agriculture Department, NASA and even the Library of Congress. Collectively, this vast enterprise is often referred to as U.S. Mission Russia or just Mission Russia.
....
The majority of U.S. Mission Russia employees are not Americans and won't be expelled: Of 1,200 people employed in 2013 in Mission Russia, 333 were U.S. citizens and 867 were designated “Foreign National Staff,” most of them probably Russian nationals. Using the 2013 numbers, if Mission Russia is forced to let go of 755 people, a majority of them would not be U.S. citizens and probably would not be expelled from the country.
(WaPo).

Putin is as easy to understand as Trump.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/01/17 09:38 AM
Quote:
What has been most exposed is how avaricious they are, and how collectively stupid they are. I think if you added up their IQs, you might get an average IQ. Putin has gotten everything he wants.


A great deal of the value of the Trump "brand" is going to be destroyed after he leaves office. Any deal he ever made depended on the participants victims not knowing exactly what he did to past victims. A conman can't operate if everybody knows what he is doing.

But no, Putin has not gotten what he desires most of all: The Magnitsky Act sanctions lifted. This act could be applied to Putin, who keeps most of his vast wealth invested in the West, and destroy his ability to protect his cronies who do the same. That threatens both his wealth and his political power.

Trump made some moves toward this end in the beginning of his term, but now his hands are tied by Congress.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 08/01/17 10:25 AM
I am not expert on this. The Sanctions Bill was passed on Thursday July 27. Both chambers will be in recess starting July 31. Can he use the pocket veto in this case?

It would give him some time to devise a more amenable result for Putin and undercut Congress. (I mean who needs a congress when one is king of America?)
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 08/01/17 10:34 AM
this flashed across my mind.

Mr Trump may have created an out for himself. Allegedly he wrote Jr's first lie about Russian meeting which would place him under investigation. He may want to claim because he is the greatest president ever Mueller is out to get him but before he can he would resign thus ending any probe into himself and his family.

I think a narcissist would go for that or something like that? it would preserve his in his mind his own image as the greatest president.

maybe wishful thinking
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 08/01/17 04:04 PM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
The voting was nearly unanimous in Congress. Way beyond veto-proof. All Trump can do is to wait the full 10 days, then it's law.

What...a...coward. Hmm
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/01/17 06:33 PM
Quote:
Can he use the pocket veto in this case?


He could, just like he could fire Sessions and make a quick recess appointment. But I think the pocket veto and recess appointments are dead, thanks to a little trick the Republicans thought up to prevent Obama from using them. They just keep a few members in DC and convene Congress for a few minutes every weekday, so it never officially recesses. Republican leaders already told Trump he can't pull the Sessions trick because they plan to do that. That will eliminate pocket vetos too.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/01/17 06:38 PM
Quote:
What...a...coward.


Really? I don't see how he could thwart that, short of using Martial Law to shutdown Congress. We do have a system of checks and balances: The President has to yield a lot of power to the Congress and to the courts. It's just how the system works, and most federal employees are going to respect that system.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 08/01/17 08:24 PM

I mean to say, it's cowardly not to act and just allow it to become law. If his signs it, he'll upset Putin, if he vetoes it, he'll upset us patriotic Americans.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 08/01/17 09:56 PM
right

so i guess he will write some signing statements decrying how evil Congress is to ward Russia and how he could have "negotiated" a better deal
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/02/17 03:18 AM
He can't veto it. It passed with a supermajority already. The veto wouldn't last a day. He really has no options here, short of starting a nuclear war or some such. He can't deliver what Putin wants most, and that is NOT about new sanctions but the language Congress put in there about him not being able to lift sanctions at all.

The Magnitsky Act stands.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 08/02/17 01:57 PM
you say that but government has been known to issue unConstitutional laws and EO's etc, and for the most part believing what was done was Constitutional. However, this president knows no boundaries and probably believes he is above the law and so could .... wave his hands ... give a thumbs up sign ... and Magnitski is gone

never forget Mr Trump is a narcissist and almost everything he does personally (did he or didn't he dictate nonsense about Russian meeting?) is probably irrational
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 08/02/17 03:08 PM
Originally Posted By: rporter314
you say that but government has been known to issue unConstitutional laws and EO's etc, and for the most part believing what was done was Constitutional. However, this president knows no boundaries and probably believes he is above the law and so could .... wave his hands ... give a thumbs up sign ... and Magnitski is gone

never forget Mr Trump is a narcissist and almost everything he does personally (did he or didn't he dictate nonsense about Russian meeting?) is probably irrational


Please stop reminding me that Mueller's gonna get the prezzy-dint, or that another "smoking gun" has been uncovered.
I'm an old Howard Stern listener, as far back as 1977, back when he was still funny. The one lesson everyone seems to forget is the very thing that Stern, and now Trump, have built their careers on...RATINGS.
The detractors even listened to Stern, which just added to the ratings.
"For Stern fans, the average listening time was an hour and ten minutes. Reason given? 'I want to hear what he's going to say next'."
"For Stern haters, average listening time was two and a half hours. Reason given? 'I want to hear what he's going to say next'."
Remember? That was a pivotal point in Stern's career as told in "Private Parts" and don't think for a moment that 45, a Stern fan himself, didn't learn from that early on.
We are knee deep in so called "smoking guns", more than enough to equip Reagan's Contras. And every time another smoking gun drops, Team Trump files off the serial numbers, because THEY CAN.
Now we're hearing that the Mueller investigation is going super long-term!
Prosecutor Robert Ray dropped that piece of news yesterday:
“It’s an indication that the investigation is going to extend well into 2018,” said Ray. “Whether it extends beyond 2018 is an open question.”
No actually, it's not an open question, because if there isn't a decision made by 2018 whether or not to go ahead on charging this administration with certain crimes, it will send a message to the American people that the rule of law itself has broken down.
Mueller and his team are up against something much larger, approval ratings. By 2018 I suspect Trump approval ratings will be in the single digits, and the question as to whether or not he can be charged with a crime will be moot. He will no longer have a base in Congress nor a mandate to lead.
His continued presence in the White House will be untenable and unsustainable.
As long as Donald Trump continues to earn ratings, no one in a position to do anything one way or the other cares where they come from. That's the cardinal rule in reality television, and television and radio in general, and we have a reality TV president who knows that only too well, and we are the stupid idiots who keep watching his show.
In the end, the rule of law has very little to do with Donald Trump's continued tenure as the chief executive.
Reasonable people are still caught in the trap of believing that we are still a nation of laws. That's one reason it took so long to get rid of Caeucescu.
Must we get to that point, really?

We are NOT a nation of laws anymore, we are a nation of MEN, and this particular man believes that law issues as he speaks it out of his mouth, and at this point in time and for the foreseeable future, he has at least 300 people in the House and 45 people in the Senate who are willing to say, "Yeah! What HE said!" whenever he orders them to.
And if you doubt that count, let's not forget that we have to include the ball-less sacks of crap that just don't have the stomach to say "NO!", which for me counts as a Yes Man every bit as much...that whole "evil triumphing because good men do nothing" thing.
“Laws? LAWS???? I spit on your LAWS.”

Donald Trump's biggest threat is RATINGS, and one other thing...VLADIMIR PUTIN.
Donald Trump has "disappointed" the richest mobster on the planet, who just happens to also be a deadly former KGB agent and leader of the Russian Republic.
It might not be as easy for Putin to dispense with the orange "stone in his shoe" as it was for his other targets but believe me, now that it's clear that he will not be getting the BIG FAVORS from the President that he expected, his team is working on it.

I'm not advocating it, I am not going to cheer for it and I am not suggesting it, but I am predicting it, for the simple reason that our chief executive has his ass hanging way out in the breeze and doesn't seem the least bit concerned about how vulnerable he is.
He still thinks he is untouchable.
The whole scenario is playing out like the movie "Casino" only Trump thinks he's Ace Rothstein, when in reality he's acting like Nicky Santoro.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 08/03/17 12:32 AM
Bill O'Reilly had ratings, he went down. Ratings will not help save President Donald (I am the President) Trump, even now hints of discontent are starting to seep from the Republican Party, a recent "open mic" incident in the Senate last week. From certain points of view, the cancer has started to metastasize and it is not covered by ACA or Trump (does not care about you) Care.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 08/05/17 12:25 PM
Putin's operation is already hard at work on Trump. They were busy undermining him before he was elected. They have no interest in having him removed, he is the best thing to happen for them since Gary Powers got shot down.
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 08/05/17 02:28 PM
President Donald (lier, backward looking, I'll bring back jobs with coal, narcissistic idiot) Trump here is some real hard information as to what he is doing to us - letting China and India lead in renewables China leaving the US behind...
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 08/05/17 04:36 PM
Quote:
Putin's operation is already hard at work on Trump. They were busy undermining him before he was elected.

Heh...aint it the truth. They didn't want him for his pro Russia policies or what he could do for them, they wanted him because he was weak and ill informed. He's doing exactly what they wanted. Making America weak again.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 08/09/17 01:20 AM
OMFG!! As a national security issue, we should not allow President Trump to ever take a vacation. Trump retweets national security leak - TIME. Then, he threatens "fire and fury" against North Korea. And retweets a bot....
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 08/11/17 12:07 PM
Trump has done something it agree with!
Trump: 'The opioid crisis is an emergency' - CNN. Now, let's see what happens with that declaration.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/11/17 06:31 PM
One thing that they can very easily do: Legalize marijuana on the federal level.

Every state that has done that has seen the opioid overdose numbers drop quite a bit. 29 states already have at least medical marijuana laws on their books. I think "the states experiments" phase is done. Time to act.

Nobody has ever died from a marijuana overdose. It's almost impossible to smoke too much: People just nod off and forget to smoke any more at some point. People who eat it can have an overdose, but it is just very unpleasant for a few hours. Nobody dies. They just learn not to do that again. And there does seem to be some interaction with the opioid receptors in the brain because opioid addicts find it easier to quit when they have access to marijuana.

I'm not saying long term heavy marijuana use is a good thing. It is just much better than opioid use, less addictive, and much easier to quit.

The one thing I hope they don't do is the one thing they usually do, because it is easy: That is to hassle doctors and chronic pain patients so they don't get their pain control meds. These pain patients really do not respond to opioids the same way as people without pain. They don't get high, they just get some relief from never-ending crushing pain. If we have to stop giving out opioid prescriptions completely, they could create walk-in mini-clinics in every drug store to administer pain meds for these folks.

Actually, that's not such a bad idea. Paying pharmacists to hand out one pill at a time to people on their list would probably be a lot cheaper then dealing with diverted prescriptions, overdoses, addiction, and death. A computer program could even match each id card and pass out constant levels to chronic pain sufferers, while weaning post-op and post-injury patients off the drugs.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 08/13/17 04:01 PM
According to Anthony Scaramucci, there are White house plotters seeking Trump exit. In other words, there are still responsible adults in the White House. We are past the point of needing to remove the Trump cancer, we are really just discussing treatment options.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/16/17 01:05 AM
I am becoming more and more convinced that Donald Trump is running the greatest troll ever on the Republican Party, and they are STILL falling for it. For godsakes, guys, he supports the KKK, neo-nazis, and kisses Putin's butt! Ronald Reagan is spinning in his grave.

Please, come to your senses. You've got a perfectly good VP Pence (conservative but not insane) just waiting to take over. Every day you delay is just more damage to your Party. I know you like shooting yourselves in the foot, but everything below the knees is now gone.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 08/16/17 02:46 AM
why do people feel compelled to tell the opposition party what they should be doing? Let Mr Trump tweet all he wants and then encourage him. He is a narcissist and as far as he is concerned he is making himself look great. If the Republican/conservatives want to attach their party to this administration ... well .... have at it.

It crossed my mind Mr Trump may have been the pawn in a high stakes game orchestrated by Bannon and his crew to gut the Republican party and replace it with ... well .... populism and deplorables. The Republican party may have painted itself into a corner. The base is moving toward the "new populist" party and the leadership is caught looking wide-eyed incapable of formulating a cogent plan for governance.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 08/18/17 05:11 PM
Bannon is out. Apparently, he was getting more press than Trump.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 08/18/17 06:23 PM


The comment counter at dead Andrew's blog for white supremacists and angry white people is spinning faster than the gold-plated Rolls Royce engines are Trump's old 757. I have never seen that many posts on a Disqus forum post that much so quickly.

They're in a fetal position over there sucking their collective thumbs. Here's one example:

Quote:
hoodaticus • 13 minutes ago

Trump is now the enemy until proven otherwise. #TrumpResign
Posted By: jgw Re: Trump Forum - 08/18/17 06:55 PM
I just wanted to join those in favor of encouraging Trump. He may be right on the edge but we need MORE Trumpisms to get the job done. Perhaps we should point out to him just how dangerous them damned nuns are. If we could get him to go after them nuns it just might do the trick!! (they are just about the last group he has not made enemies of <G>)
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/18/17 09:21 PM
I wonder if we could get Pence replaced, ala Nixon/Agnew. Pence could resign "for health reasons" (IE. because he's an idiot) and then we get Romney in there.

Then Trump resigns and President Romney takes over. Because the current line of succession is a disaster. Don't forget, Romney invented ObamaCare. Either he's smart enough to run a state successfully, or he's smart enough to find the right people to do it.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 08/18/17 10:17 PM
is Gen Kelly the head of a silent coup??? will he relinquish power to more rational civilians? inquiring minds want to know
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 08/21/17 08:19 PM
When you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find nominees, sometime you knock bits of scum into the brew. So it is with Trump. Serious, qualified candidates won't apply, so you get bad jokes like Sam Clovis. Trump nominee Sam Clovis: 'As far as we ...n of pedophilia. The deplorables are now in the administration...
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/21/17 11:01 PM
"LGBT behavior" is one of those little semantic tricks some people think they can use to outsmart reality. Like calling it "The Democrat Party".

It just confirms you are a moron who believes in magic: If you can just say the right series of words then all the gays will decide to be straight.

They can't face the fact that most people exhibiting "LGBT behavior" do it because they are LGBT. Of course bisexual people confuse the issue because they really can choose a straight relationship or a gay relationship, but the number of bisexuals is much smaller than the number of us who really have no choice. And "people who have no choice" includes heterosexuals as well!
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/22/17 06:14 PM
Trump's "new" policy of secrecy about all aspects of the Afghanistan war isn't secrecy at all. We are in a NATO coalition with 39 other countries, so we DO have to tell all of them (plus the Afghans) exactly how many men we have there at all times, where they are, and what they are doing so we don't get a lot of people killed in friendly-fire incidents.

The only people who aren't supposed to know anything about this is us, the American Public. Classic Trump strategy. But I don't think he is doing it so he can do whatever he wants without having to tell us about it or answer questions from the press. He's doing it because it is a complex topic and he would rather not have to talk about it at all. This is a strategy for incompetent or brain-injured people to hide their deficits.

Every complicated topic is "secret" so he can only make a few vague generalizations about it. This lowers the requirement for him to have deep (or any) knowledge on the subject. This is a radical departure from ex-professor Obama, who DID study and indeed master every subject of interest for a President. Notice that Trump is actually leaving most Obama policies intact, because understanding them enough to change anything and not make a colossal blunder is too hard.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 08/22/17 11:36 PM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Notice that Trump is actually leaving most Obama policies intact, because understanding them enough to change anything and not make a colossal blunder is too hard.


Notice that he is nevertheless doing his level best to sabotage the most important ones.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/23/17 12:49 AM
Quote:
he is nevertheless doing his level best to sabotage the most important ones


Sure, he assumes Obama was bad, therefore everything Obama did was bad. But he's only tackling the simple ones. Like Obama was against the KKK and Nazis, so Trump has to support them...

Foreign policy in Afghanistan is another kettle of fish. Obama's policy can't be summed up on a double-spaced single sheet of paper (with Trump's name in it several times), so it is too boring. Let the generals figure it out.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/24/17 05:40 PM
Trump as King Lear:

No Man Is An Island

Quote:
Trump may love to fire people, but his most recent dismissals are slick with desperation, as if he could save the gangrenous White House by lopping off the correct limb, as if he himself weren’t the source of the rot.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 08/25/17 03:24 PM
The first big hurricane of Trump’s presidency will be managed by Obama-era officials. Thank God.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 08/25/17 09:31 PM
couple of questions and thoughts

I see someone has written an article asking the question what if Mr Trump refuses to leave the premises of the WH after he should be impeached and convicted? I think I have asked this before and I believe his response would be GFY I am president

I also see Dir Pompeo has also been under scrutiny. What if really unfavorable to criminal activities should be uncovered by all the investigations ongoing, would Dir Pompeo quash the evidence or would he allow it to be published? He is a far right nut case who has been a long time Trump supporter. Does his loyalty reside with Mr Trump or America? I suspect none of the far right give a crap about America but they do care about their agenda.

The clue Mr Trump may truly be unhinged will be to find any tweets which do not portray him as the greatest president. If he ever authentically apologizes .... he is about to press the red button
Posted By: Spag-hetti Re: Trump Forum - 08/26/17 12:22 AM
And now Trump has pardoned Joe Arpaio.

I thought presidents could only pardon people convicted of felonies. Arpaio's crime was a misdemeanor, wasn't it? I probably have it wrong.

Sad day. Nobody needed to face true justice more than Arpaio.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/26/17 03:04 AM
That may not actually work. There is some question as to Presidents pardoning civil contempt charges. This may go to the Supreme Court who may just say no. Contempt is a tool of the courts to get people to obey court orders, not an ordinary crime. As judges, they may not want to give it up.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 08/26/17 03:38 AM
Trump has cemented his legacy today as inarguably the worst President in US history. And it only took months.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 08/26/17 03:43 AM
I also note, it took an historically bad hurricane to cover the bad news pouring from the White House. Every time I think he has reached the bottom, this President finds a new low.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 08/26/17 04:54 AM
And now Gorka's gone...never a dull moment with this administration.
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 08/26/17 06:31 AM
Quote:
this President finds a new low.


Indeed. In this case 938 mb. Talk about a “low blow” Trump, of course will save all.....
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/26/17 06:58 PM
Quote:
And now Gorka's gone...never a dull moment with this administration.


Well, that's actually a very good thing. It's just very bad that a Nazi with a fake PhD could work in the White House for all these months. But I guess when you elect a conman, you should expect conmen on his staff.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 08/27/17 05:05 PM
I predict should Mr Trump be relieved of duty and office, he will characterize it as a massive conspiracy by liberals to rid the country of the greatest president who ever lived and will ever live.

Mr Trump has so divided America that the seriously delusional and intellectually bankrupt Roger Stone may know what resides in the hearts of Trump supporters ... is an open rebellion on the horizon? will Mr Trump go to war to dismantle all investigations? Would Mr Trump even leave office if convicted?

Your thoughts should all be viewed through the narcissistic lens of Mr Trump for appropriate conclusions.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 08/28/17 02:22 PM
How Will the Supreme Court Respond to the Arpaio Pardon? the Atlantic
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 08/28/17 02:51 PM
Every time I think I cannot be more disgusted, Trump finds a way.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 08/28/17 03:41 PM
Remember you have only been exposed for but a few months. How disgusted will you be after 4 years??

Don't let it get you down .... tomorrow tomorrow
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 08/28/17 05:36 PM
My disgustometer has long since pegged out.
Posted By: Spag-hetti Re: Trump Forum - 08/29/17 04:15 AM
Quote:
Thank you, PIA, for saying this:
This may go to the Supreme Court who may just say no. Contempt is a tool of the courts to get people to obey court orders, not an ordinary crime. As judges, they may not want to give it up.


Fingers, toes, arms and legs crossed. One for more than one reason.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 08/29/17 11:44 AM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
...I guess when you elect a conman, you should expect conmen on his staff.

When you elect a clown, expect a circus. smile
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 08/30/17 04:16 PM
The Politico headline:Trump to seize populist mantle for pitching messy tax overhaul, says so much. Trump is a huckster, pure and simple, and his tax proposals are just plain lies. It's a myth that corporate tax cuts mean more jobs - NYT (subscription) Among the tax "breaks" He proposes to cut are electric vehicle deductions and historic preservation. Among the taxes he wants cut are inheritance and top tax brackets. The corporate tax cut is a farce. As the NYT article points out, of the 92 companies that got the biggest tax breaks, employment went down by 1% (483,000+ jobs) and shareholder value/executive pay went up. Profits? Zilch. Investment? Negligible. It is nothing but a scam. Who will benefit most? Guess who? Trump
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 08/30/17 05:12 PM
the voodoo economics of trickle down are well known, however it is the mainstay of conservative idiot-ology. It is a pipe dream sold by people who use verbal legerdemain to manipulate the most economically vulnerable citizens.
Posted By: Spag-hetti Re: Trump Forum - 08/30/17 09:03 PM
Ask Governor Brownback about the great voodoo economics experiment in Kansas. Cutting taxes for the wealthy and the corporations did not bring more jobs ... rich folks just put that money in their pockets.

And to offset those tax cuts he cut money to schools. They had to close early one year because they ran out of money. A kid can graduate in the top 10% and not get accepted into college because their schools suck. The good teachers fled across the nearest border to earn a living wage.

He cut services and he cut infrastructure spending. Lots of jobs went out the window with those two moves.

Brownback sure hopes he gets appointed Trumps boss of religious freedom because he needs to get out of Kansas, where he is soundly detested.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 08/30/17 09:46 PM
or they love him as they love the great narcissist, Mr Trump ... with a great leap of faith
Posted By: chunkstyle Re: Trump Forum - 08/31/17 01:34 AM
Hard times to flush the unconvinced. It takes mounting repair bills to convince a fool they bought a crappy car. Kansas got suckered into buying one. We got warned
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/31/17 03:53 AM
If course they have been warned, then they have implemented their policies, had a massive failure, Democrats fix the problem, and Republicans just come with more stupid ideas. Their ideas just don't work and they don't care.

Because underneath it all, they think government can't work and they aim to prove it. But it isn't government that can't work: It's Republican government.

Private industry would NEVER hire somebody who believes the company will fail and then does their best to destroy it. Why do we? This attitude should disqualify them for office.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 08/31/17 12:29 PM
It has crossed my mind that the internet is a root cause for the power of the stupid to have an outsize effect on policy and government.

Quote:
Nichols argues that the country has shifted from a healthy skepticism of accepted knowledge to a proud, self-satisfied ignorance and active hostility to the very idea of expertise. Across American society, intellectual authority is resented, resisted and disregarded, with every opinion ostensibly holding equal weight.

This leveling of viewpoints has been accelerated by digital technologies and platforms, which have further lowered the barriers to participation, opening the floodgates to those without the requisite educational backgrounds and professional credentials. As Nichols puts it:

“I fear we are witnessing […] a Google-fueled, Wikipedia-based, blog-sodden collapse of any division between professionals and laypeople, students and teachers, knowers and wonderers—in other words, between those of any achievement in an area and those with none at all.”

In the absence of these crucial distinctions, Nichols asserts, public discourse has become degraded by unquestioned cognitive biases and a dearth of informed, evidence-based argumentation.


American idiot...
Posted By: Spag-hetti Re: Trump Forum - 08/31/17 08:25 PM
Quote:
I said:
I thought presidents could only pardon people convicted of felonies. Arpaio's crime was a misdemeanor, wasn't it? I probably have it wrong.


I was right about being wrong. Presidents can pardon federal crimes but not state crimes or civil suits. So the state could bring charges against Arpaio, and if he is convicted, it sticks.
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 08/31/17 08:49 PM
This article might help make sense of things. The Trump part comes later on:

Quote:
Each of us is on a spectrum somewhere between the poles of rational and irrational. We all have hunches we can’t prove and superstitions that make no sense. Some of my best friends are very religious, and others believe in dubious conspiracy theories. What’s problematic is going overboard—letting the subjective entirely override the objective; thinking and acting as if opinions and feelings are just as true as facts. The American experiment, the original embodiment of the great Enlightenment idea of intellectual freedom, whereby every individual is welcome to believe anything she wishes, has metastasized out of control.

From the start, our ultra-individualism was attached to epic dreams, sometimes epic fantasies—every American one of God’s chosen people building a custom-made utopia, all of us free to reinvent ourselves by imagination and will.


How America Lost Its' Mind
Posted By: Ken Condon Re: Trump Forum - 08/31/17 08:58 PM
And then reflect upon this:
Quote:
Six out of 10 of those who approve of President Trump’s performance, or about 25% percent of the American public, say they cannot “think of anything Trump could do, or fail to do,” that would make them disapprove of him.

Something about shooting someone on a street........
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 08/31/17 09:35 PM
Quote:
they cannot “think of anything Trump could do, or fail to do,” that would make them disapprove of him.


Just give it a little more time. It's early yet and the Obama economy is still going strong. When it starts to hit them in their pocketbooks and there's no other place to point a finger...

They already know he's an idiot and a failure, but he's their idiot and failure so they'll stick with him until the grits hits the pan. Then they'll drop him like a hot potato.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 08/31/17 10:09 PM
Were that should be true and valid but I suspect those conclusion would only apply to rational folks, not true believers. They will defend and excuse something along the lines of .... everyone but Mr Trump is lying, etc

How can you argue or discuss anything with true believers
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 08/31/17 11:14 PM
I think his supporters who are at the bottom of the economic ladder will continue to support him: They have more of less nothing and Trump's ineptitude won't hurt them. They will still have nothing no matter what he does. Maybe a little enjoyment out of his anti-elite nonsense, like watching WWE wrestling.

But his working class supporters WILL be affected. They will suffer real loss of income, health care access, education opportunities for their kids, mortgage interest and other deductions, etc. They will notice and start placing the blame where it lays. Hard to blame Obama, Clinton, or Democrats when Republicans are running everything.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 09/01/17 01:40 AM
I agree that his "soft" supporters will eventually see him for what he is and start looking for something better.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 09/03/17 03:19 PM
But would they recognize what "better" looks like?
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 09/03/17 04:24 PM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
But would they recognize what "better" looks like?


I'm dealing with something of this nature but on a completely different subject, and this comment turned on a lightbulb (or maybe a light emitting diode...).

It has to do with the importance of context. If you see a problem (I see two in current conservative ideology of problem solving by destruction, and liberal ideology of wishful thinking) and want to fix it, you first have to identify the what and why of the problem, so you know what to work on. Using the right wing as an example, since it is the more actively toxic, in my opinion, the context of what "better" is always takes right wingedness as a given. This is a cultural tumor that was intentionally implanted and nurtured by what has now become the new Republican Establishment, beginning it's clear emergence with Newt Gingrich, and fed with endless lying propaganda since.

The tumor is now grown so big that in the last election, there were no GOP candidates on the "good" side of the street, so contextual "better" was still really bad.

(I guess I just identified the POTUS as a huge malignant tumor.)

On the Democratic establishment side, I'd say we have a very large benign tumor.

Understandably, lots of people are vaguely aware of this problem, but "anybody from our party" should not be a given in the contextual equation. There should be some real standards set out that candidates need to meet. I heard a snippet of an interview with Richard Dawkins yesterday, in which he said something like there should be evidence of qualifications relevant to the job presented regarding political candidates.

We've got some tumors to excise, folks, and need to graft in some healthy tissue.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 09/03/17 04:40 PM
John McCain: It’s time Congress returns to regular order - WaPo (subscription) It's a start...
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 09/03/17 04:40 PM
I think that Trump's base actually likes a malignant tumor for president.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 09/03/17 05:52 PM
His base is getting down to those trolls who just want to see Liberals pissed off. They don't consider themselves as elite or highly educated and it's their "turn" to win. The reason he won those Midwestern states (and thus the Electoral College) is because those states contain a lot of long-term unemployed or under-employed who have stayed there instead of going where the new jobs are and resisted retraining.

They see themselves as anti-elite and proud of it. The real problem for them is that Trump can do nothing to make their lives better. The economic forces that made them that way are far far bigger than Trump. It's like King Canute beating the incoming tide. They will continue to spiral down economically until they move and get retraining (as Hillary suggested). Of course, Trump is not doing anything to help them but he's claiming he is. see "New Coal Jobs"
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 09/08/17 12:13 PM

Boy are Trump sycophants seething and shaking their tiny fists in a fury over at Breitbart about Trump cutting a deal with Schumer and Pelosi regarding the debt ceiling and DACA.

In the words of Don Jr: I love it.

smile
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 09/08/17 06:23 PM
See, I told you guys that there several things that just need to get done and it doesn't matter if you are Democratic, Republican, Socialist, or Freedom Caucus. You just have to skip your posturing, get them done, and then you can go back to partisan bickering.

Some times you just have to water and mow the field before the teams can play the game.
Posted By: Spag-hetti Re: Trump Forum - 09/09/17 06:22 PM
You all know how the evengelicals are always saying things like, "Gawd sent AIDS to punish homosexuals," and "Gawd sent Katrina to New Orleans because of its orgies" and "Gawd gave us Sandy Hook because of abortion"?

Wonder if they are going to say that Gawd sent Irma to punish the Donald. (I'd use his title, but you know how he hates political correctness. That's why he calls Senator Schumer and Minority Leader Pelosi Chuck and Nancy. I bow to his preference.)


According to this article

"After destroying "Le Chateau des Palmiers," Trump's 11-bedroom mansion located on the Caribbean island of St. Martin (as well as Richard Branson's home on his private island), the storm has South Florida in its crosshairs. And the president's seaside resort, Mar-a-Lago, has been ordered to evacuate as Irma approaches."

"Mar-a-Lago isn't Trump's only South Florida holding, though. Sixty miles south of the resort, on Sunny Isles Beach, Trump owns three 45-story luxury condo towers, collectively known as Trump Towers, Sunny Isles. Floor plans for apartments in the buildings range from 1,435 square feet to 2,558 square feet, with prices on units currently for sale reaching as high as $3 million."


Wow. Maybe we can pray away the popinjay.

Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 09/09/17 10:19 PM
I'm afraid it's going to hit Key West, (the only part of Floriduh I like) and mostly miss the east coast. Oh well, the parrot-heads don't need much to be happy when they come back. Easy come, easy go. Let's light up and put on some Buffet.

We can worry about a new house tomorrow.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 09/10/17 05:33 PM
Well, day after tomorrow.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 09/11/17 06:20 PM
Very good article in Slate about the confirmation of items in the Steele dossier. You know, the one Bob Woodward called "garbage". Seems many of Steele's items have proved to be true, long after he reported them or even known about them from other sources.
The Steele Report, Revisited

Quote:
The quid pro quo as alleged in the dossier was for the Trump team to “sideline” the Ukrainian issue in the campaign. We learned subsequently that the Trump platform committee changed only a single plank in the 60-page Republican platform prior to the Republican convention. Of the hundreds of Republican positions and proposals, they altered only the single sentence that called for maintaining or increasing sanctions against Russia, increasing aid for Ukraine and “providing lethal defensive weapons” to the Ukrainian military. The Trump team reportedly changed the wording to the more benign, “appropriate assistance.”


Quote:
Consider, in addition, the Orbis report saying that Russia was utilizing hackers to influence voters and referring to payments to “hackers who had worked in Europe under Kremlin direction against the Clinton campaign.” A January Stanford study found that “fabricated stories favoring Donald Trump were shared a total of 30 million times, nearly quadruple the number of pro–Hillary Clinton shares leading up to the election.” Also, in November, researchers at Oxford University published a report based on analysis of 19.4 million Twitter posts from early November prior to the election. The report found that an “automated army of pro-Trump chatbots overwhelmed Clinton bots five to one in the days leading up to the presidential election.” In March 2017, former FBI agent Clint Watts told Congress about websites involved in the Russian disinformation campaign “some of which mysteriously operate from Eastern Europe and are curiously led by pro-Russian editors of unknown financing.”
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 10/11/17 05:20 PM
So President Trump is mulling over the idea of "revoking the license for NBC"?
I have some bad news for the Commander-In-Chief, there's no such thing.
There is no such thing as an FCC license for a broadcast, cable or satellite network. FCC licenses the transmitters at individual stations.

A broadcast license is exactly that, a license to "broad cast" (cast broadly, like seeds in a field) an electromagnetic radio frequency signal over the airwaves.
TV networks are not IN the broadcasting business. They only supply the CONTENT which is sent to a network of individual stations.

It is the individual television station that sends out the broadcast signal to your homes over the airwaves. Likewise, your cable and satellite box is NOT receiving a "broadcast", it is receiving a data stream sent by a service provider.

The President would have to show cause as to why each and every individual station is "failing to serve the public interest" and that is an extroardinarily (by design) complex and arduous process.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 10/11/17 11:59 PM
It is also the very definition of an impeachable High Crime: Misusing the powers of your high office to attack your critics. Yet another one for the big list of offences.

Trump's List is going to be Yuuuuuuge: The greatest list of all time! Nothing like it ever!
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/04/17 05:06 AM


Billy Bush has something to say to Donald J Trump. smile
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 12/05/17 05:28 AM
Trump can't even hire a decent lawyer: His lawyer claimed HE sent that tweet as Donald that incriminated him for obstruction of justice. But the tweet was an incredible blunder and any lawyer would know that. It also contained "he pled guilty", which a lawyer would NEVER write. The proper legal terminology is "pleaded".

So he's obviously lying to protect his client but he's so bad at it that anybody can see through him. What kind of a crappy lawyer can't tell a convincing lie?
Posted By: Ujest Shurly Re: Trump Forum - 12/05/17 02:43 PM
" What kind of a crappy lawyer can't tell a convincing lie?"


Trumps?



VOTE 2018
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 12/06/17 12:38 AM
From Russia With Love
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 12/06/17 03:58 AM
TRUMP WHITE HOUSE WEIGHING PLANS FOR PRIVATE SPIES TO COUNTER “DEEP STATE” ENEMIES

Quote:
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION is considering a set of proposals developed by Blackwater founder Erik Prince and a retired CIA officer — with assistance from Oliver North, a key figure in the Iran-Contra scandal — to provide CIA Director Mike Pompeo and the White House with a global, private spy network that would circumvent official U.S. intelligence agencies, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials and others familiar with the proposals. The sources say the plans have been pitched to the White House as a means of countering “deep state” enemies in the intelligence community seeking to undermine Donald Trump’s presidency.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 12/06/17 09:00 AM
I think Trump is in for it now. He will be deposed in the Zervos defamation suit, and that is sworn testimony. I don't think he can help but incriminate and perjure himself at this point in his mental deterioration. Just about every time he opens his mouth, he lies. Every tweet is a lie or a self incrimination. TV and tweets are one thing. Sworn testimony is another. There are severe consequences to lying under oath.

If they ever get him under oath, in front of a Congressional hearing, or if he even just talks officially to an FBI agent, he is toast...

Hello, President Pence.

And I think Prince and North are going to have a hard time finding people to volunteer for prison with their scheme.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/06/17 12:16 PM
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Hello, President Pence.

Nope. nono

Mueller's going after Pence too.

I read somewhere over the past weekend that in October 2016, after the Access Hollywood tape reveal, that Pence and Reince were looking to make Pence the main guy. When Trump finds this out, Pence will be toast in Trump's eyes.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/06/17 12:58 PM
He has always suffered from Narcissist Personality Disorder (" is a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others" - Mayo Clinic). In his reality what you know are lies are truths for him. Almost anything he says is a lie because of the nature of his disorder.

Think about the two sides of reality as seen through the eyes of a marine, what did we do wrong, answered by another who realized the truth, or the egocentric arrogance of a Col, I did it and Ill do it again, who can't handle the truth of reality.

I don't believe any prosecutor would bring charges against him because of his personality disorder. Would a prosecutor charge a schizophrenic for a crime?

I suspect the best avenues of removal are either a 25th Amendment solution or impeachment. I also do not see either being implemented by Republicans. I suspect they will suck it up for the rest of his term and either hope he doesn't run in 2020 or primary him.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/06/17 01:00 PM
LOL .... I think Mr Trump already knew VP Pence was toast and more. It was a politically expedient decision to have him on the ticket as opposed to his original choice of having himself run as president and VP.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 12/06/17 05:41 PM
All this talk about impeachment is mostly wasted breath. Trump is going nowhere. It's a democratic fantasy. Democrats can't look for Republicans to police their own. Al Franken is toast. John Conyers has retired. The RNC is endorsing Roy Moore. What more do you need to know?
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 12/06/17 06:08 PM
Originally Posted By: Greger
All this talk about impeachment is mostly wasted breath.


Not if we sweep both chambers in 2018.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 12/06/17 06:34 PM
Trump Was Embarrased

Trump was upset that the Pence family was bringing their pets to live in Washington, D.C.: WTF? Seems Trump is the first President in 150 years with no pets. I guess that's a matter of taste, but to think your servants should not have pets is the ultimate arrogance.

I think it is just more proof there's something seriously wrong with Donald. And something fundamentally normal about Pence.
Posted By: Spag-hetti Re: Trump Forum - 12/06/17 07:15 PM
Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

So, ok. Is this a punch in the eye for the Muslim world? Is he trying to draw Muslim ire?

More hate, more attacks and then he gets to use the nukes?

If other countries don't move their embassies, won't Jerusalem be kind of lonely?
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 12/06/17 08:51 PM
When does the new embassy got bombed?, is what I want to know. This has always been seen as deliberate provocation. When Americans die, will this be another Benghazi? Another Beirut Marine Barracks? If you send more soldiers to guard it, is that just more people who can be killed?
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 12/07/17 06:41 PM
Trump WANTS the backlash. He WANTS attacks. He WANTS to be a "war time" President because it strokes his ego. And it distracts from Russia. Deep thought is not required. I doubt he thinks about anything (but sleights) for more than 15 minutes. No strategy involved. Evangelicals love it. He wants love.
Posted By: Golem Re: Trump Forum - 12/07/17 08:10 PM
Alan Dershowitz: Why Trump is right in recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Alan Dershowitz
Fox News
December 6, 2017

Quote:
President Trump’s decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital is a perfect response to President Obama’s benighted decision to change American policy by engineering the United Nations Security Council Resolution declaring Judaism’s holiest places in Jerusalem to be occupied territory and a “flagrant violation under international law.” It was President Obama who changed the status quo and made peace more difficult, by handing the Palestinians enormous leverage in future negotiations and disincentivizing them from making a compromised peace.

It had long been American foreign policy to veto any one-sided Security Council resolutions that declared Judaism’s holiest places to be illegally occupied. Obama’s decision to change that policy was not based on American interests or in the interests of peace. It was done out of personal revenge against Prime Minister Netanyahu and an act of pique by the outgoing president.

It was also designed improperly to tie the hands of President-elect Trump. President Trump is doing the right thing by telling the United Nations that the United States now rejects the one-sided U.N. Security Council Resolution.

More
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 12/07/17 08:37 PM
F*$k Alan Dershowitz. He's been in the bag for Trump for a year. I don't get it. He's been prostituting himself all over the airwaves, and his legal analysis is specious. He's as wrong about this as a half-dozen other opinions he's voiced lately. I recognize that he's Jewish, but that doesn't excuse abandoning all principles.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/08/17 12:19 AM
Dershowitz apparently selectively forgot UNSCR 242 passed in 1967 regarding status of occupied territories.

Pres Obama has not one-sidedly changed anything but Mr Trump has. With this action he has singlehandedly stopped the peace process from ever succeeding and begun the previously nefarious scheme to annex Palestine to satisfy Jewish extremists.

Let's see. Annexed territory and Palestinians have no Israeli rights. I think that will do it.
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 12/08/17 01:07 AM
I have a number of Jewish friends, and many of them acknowledge privately that Jerusalem is a sticking point in the Jewish psyche, but the Israeli approach has not been consistent with their principles. For many it is a very emotional subject. I understand Dershowitz, but I still vehemently disagree with him. Don't forget that he is, primarily, a libertarian - so his views on Civil Rights are generally good, but he cannot acknowledge his HUGE blind spot when it comes to Israel. On that subject, he turns off his analytical brain and goes with the most extreme, pro-Israel views. He gives lip service to "Palestinians" but not where Jerusalem is concerned. I could link a number of posts to demonstrate that point.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 12/08/17 02:08 AM
Quote:
nefarious scheme to annex Palestine


I don't think so: If they annex Palestine, then all of those Palestinians become citizens of Israel. Voting citizens! If Israel even gets to have a non-Jewish majority there would be huge changes.

I think Israelis would prefer a two state solution, but only after they annex all the usable land into Greater Israel.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/08/17 03:29 AM
Quote:
If they annex Palestine, then all of those Palestinians become citizens of Israe

I think that argument is what has kept Palestine a separate entity.

The Likud Party has a always had the Biblical lands as the homeland platform. The West Bank is a part of that. So the problem has always been, how can Israel steal the land with the world looking? Once the Palestinian capital has been removed from discussion, there is no point in continuation of peace process. Now without a capital Israel can continue settlements in occupied territory until the Palestinians have been effectively politically neutered in small enclaves. Once this has been accomplished, Israel can annex, gerrymander the land and thus prevent Palestinian power.

It is the plan I would use, and I am sure the Likud has thought of it.

I am trying to find tickets for the End of Times Show .... coming to the ME sooner than God would like
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 12/08/17 05:54 AM
Did I say that Republicans interpret moral high ground as weakness?
WANT PROOF??

Sheriff Joe Arpaio ‘Seriously, Seriously, Seriously’ Considering the U.S. Senate
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 12/09/17 03:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Did I say that Republicans interpret moral high ground as weakness?

One of the fundamental principles of the Nuevo Regressive Conservatives is that anything goes as long as you are #WINNING!!
Posted By: logtroll Re: Trump Forum - 12/09/17 10:05 PM
Does Trump have degenerative brain disease?
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/10/17 12:41 AM
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Did I say that Republicans interpret moral high ground as weakness?
WANT PROOF??

Sheriff Joe Arpaio ‘Seriously, Seriously, Seriously’ Considering the U.S. Senate

A convicted, pardoned, felon wants to be a Senator under the Republican umbrella? Hmm Quelle surprise. coffee
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/10/17 12:42 AM
Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

So, ok. Is this a punch in the eye for the Muslim world? Is he trying to draw Muslim ire?

More hate, more attacks and then he gets to use the nukes?

If other countries don't move their embassies, won't Jerusalem be kind of lonely?

Muslim countries will soon begin to recognize East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine. Hmm
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/10/17 12:44 AM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Trump WANTS the backlash. He WANTS attacks. He WANTS to be a "war time" President because it strokes his ego. And it distracts from Russia. Deep thought is not required. I doubt he thinks about anything (but sleights) for more than 15 minutes. No strategy involved. Evangelicals love it. He wants love.

For now on, men with a small penis can no longer run for President. crazy

End...of...story. smile
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/10/17 12:45 AM
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
F*$k Alan Dershowitz. He's been in the bag for Trump for a year. I don't get it. He's been prostituting himself all over the airwaves, and his legal analysis is specious. He's as wrong about this as a half-dozen other opinions he's voiced lately. I recognize that he's Jewish, but that doesn't excuse abandoning all principles.

Bow

Recognizing Jerusalem as the Jewish State capital is all about Armageddon and The Second Coming. Seriously. Hmm
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 12/10/17 05:08 AM
Yup, Gelicles want that real estate and they intend to convert all who live there, too.
Those who refuse, die.
Hey, this ain't ME telling you, it's their own sermons.
They don't make a secret of it.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/10/17 12:38 PM
Israel unilaterally declared sovereignty when they got solid assurances Pres Truman would recognize the new state as soon as it declared, thus circumventing UN protocols and thus almost assuredly ending any hope of a 2-state solution as proposed by the LoN and UN.

My rebuttal is for Palestine to declare sovereignty and lay claim to eastern Jerusalem as its capitol as well as set the boundaries. At this moment I suspect every Muslim country may recognize Palestine as a sovereign state.

If it is good for Israel, certainly it must be good for Palestine.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Trump Forum - 12/10/17 11:15 PM
Of course, this is an act of Trump, not of Israel. Let's wait and see what exactly Israel does with it. They may do nothing because they like the way things are now. That's the interesting problem: If you go for the single-state solution all the Palestinians become Israeli citizens and get to vote. Israeli politics changes dramatically.

If you go for the two-state solution, all the settlements are in the Palestinian state. They might want to move back to Israel.

If they do something more radical, like take the west bank and kick all the Palestinians out, the UN comes in to enforce their old borders and kicks THEM out.

That's why I think they will do nothing.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 12/13/17 09:15 PM
Omarosa Manigault throws tantrum, has to be escorted from White House

Omarosa Manigault throws tantrum, has to be escorted from White House after chief of staff fires her

Quote:
Manigault Newman “acted very vulgar and cursed a lot and said she helped elect President Trump,” sources told American Urban Radio Networks’ April Ryan.

“And she said, ‘I brought the black vote.’ General Kelly said, ‘no, you did not. It's not there,’” Ryan told CNN.

Manigault Newman then tried to enter the residence area of the White House and had to be escorted from the building, Ryan said.


Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/17/17 10:05 PM

A lot of people wonder what Putin's interest in Donald Trump is. We know what Trump's interest in Putin is - to get a Trump Tower, Moscow.

Today, a reichwing nut posted an article on a site that I frequent, quoted it, but not paste the link. I quickly found the quote to be from Breitbart. No wonder he was too cowardly to post the link.

Turns out, the Breitbart story came from Sputnik news.

The story? It was about Sweden having to raise their retirement age in response to Muslim immigration because of the historically high fertility rate rate of the Muslim population.

First of all, Rightwingers shouldn't be making posts about issues they don’t understand, in countries that don’t affect them. Surely that couldn’t have anything to do with racism/islamaphobia/xenophobia, could it?

Social Affairs Minister Annika Strandhäll and Financial Markets Minister Per Bolund said in a statement:

Quote:
"We are reforming the Swedish pension system in order to raise pensions and increase security for both today's and future pensioner."


The point I'm trying to make: Putin hates Muslims because of what happened in Chechnya. Putin is a CONservative homophobic, racist, islamaphobe, and xenophobe, and he saw a kindred spirit in Donald J Trump.

Plus the fact that Hillary Clinton called Putin out on the 2012 Russian election shenanigans.
Posted By: Greger Re: Trump Forum - 12/18/17 04:30 AM
Putin seems to be a pretty savvy politician. I don't think he sees a kindred spirit in Trump at all. I think he sees a weak ignorant buffoon and he helped him because he'd rather see a weak ignorant buffoon leading the US rather than a savvy politician like himself.
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Trump Forum - 12/18/17 05:04 AM
Greger, spot on as always.
Posted By: jgw Re: Trump Forum - 12/18/17 06:31 PM
Given the way that Trump has been filling his pockets with even more to come from the new "tax Cuts for the Middle Class" I would think that he had enough money to pay back the Russian Mafia so, perhaps, he will be off the hook?
Posted By: NW Ponderer Re: Trump Forum - 12/20/17 09:16 PM
I think Trump's presidency, and the Republican Congress, has been absolutely inspiring! Huge number of Democratic Challengers - TRMS.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/20/17 10:05 PM
Quote:
I would think that he had enough money to pay back the Russian Mafia so, perhaps, he will be off the hook?

LOL

I think that is the beauty of the "hook". Once snagged you can't wiggle free.

He could resign or flee to Russia (after he rescinds the Magnitsky Act and he sets up accounts to launder his money to Russia), otherwise he is here to sell America to Russia.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/21/17 01:35 AM
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Greger, spot on as always.

Yup. smile
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/30/17 04:21 PM

...from the NYT interview that Donald Trump gave on Thursday:

Quote:
'I saved coal.'

'I was treated better than anyone in the history of China.’

'I did things that Ronald Reagan couldn’t do.’

‘there’s been no collusion, absolutely no collusion, everyone agrees there’s no collusion.’ (sixteen times)

‘I have absolute right to control the Justice Department.'

‘I know more than the greatest CPA.’

--Donald Trump

These are obviously cartoonishly ridiculous statements. At no point can this kind of babbling be assuring to us Americans.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: Trump Forum - 12/30/17 04:51 PM
all of which corroborate the diagnosis .... NPD



Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)
Quote:
Living with or being involved with a narcissist can be mentally and emotionally exhausting.

It can feel like you have to perform "mental gymnastics" from dealing with the lying (even when confronted with undeniable proof ), the gaslighting, the triangulation, the projection, the constant contradictions, the manipulation, blame-shifting, the charm they lay on, the inflated sense of self - even subtle forms of torture, such as sleep deprivation, these people inflict on their victims - appears to be conscious and calculated to push the target of their "affections" past their limits, into surrender - and ultimately into total compliance - as a source of Narcissistic Supply.


If that sounds familiar ... raise your hand
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 12/31/17 07:28 PM


Trump represents a demographic with a collective death wish that isn’t even close to a majority, but the damage done to America by Trump will long outlive him, or them.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Trump Forum - 01/09/18 03:32 AM


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