Capitol Hill Blue
Posted By: jgw Confused - 06/07/21 05:00 PM
I am confused. We have all been watching the Trump folks going at it. Seems that they have abandoned the constitution, attacked the congress physically, and some have, as far as I can tell, qualified as terrorists.

All of that being said none of them, except for those who have rioted, have been called out. There are, for instance, in the Congress of the United States actually members who have ignored the constitution with, apparently, some kind of immunity as they do it with some regularity.

On top of that we have a retired, self admitted criminal, who has been called a traitor to the nation, by a sitting judge who has now said that we should have a military takeover, just like Miramar!

So, the president has said our system is in serious jeopardy. We have heard the same, on TV, by any number of talking heads as well as many politicians both sitting and retired. If this is really the case then why in the world has not our government done something about it? It seems to be that they can't save themselves, nor our system of government. It just keep on happening, its getting worse and worse and, obviously, nobody is going to do a damned thing!

I can guarantee you that should a problem arise and the other side is in charge they will act swiftly to take care of business and everybody gets to get shot or goto prison.

So, I am curious - anybody have any thoughts on this one?
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Confused - 06/07/21 11:54 PM
Ordinarily, I would say the Wheels of Justice turn slowly. Investigations, Grand Jury, Indictments, etc. all take time and the FBI is overloaded with all the insurrectionists. But I think the Justice Department did a lot of very questionable stuff during Trump's administration, and a lot of those people are still there. The Secret Service needs a purge to shift the Trump loyalists to positions having nothing to do with protecting Democrats, and there may be similar things happening in other Justice Department agencies.
Posted By: jgw Re: Confused - 06/08/21 05:10 PM
I agree with that! I find all this law stuff just confusing. We have a group of people determined to destroy the government and replace it with somebody who will wreck any freedoms we might have. This is ongoing, reported daily, yet nothing seems to happen. They are, however, going after the rioters and, perhaps, that might be a start. Its the mouths that are the problem and I have no idea how to do something about that even though there is that old rule; You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater to create panic. Our current group, of about 30%, is in panic, I think.

Its just strange. We have people literally trying to destroy our nation and getting away with it!

I actually not even sure, or understand, a lot of what Biden is doing. He hasn't, as you say, cleaned out the Justice Department and a lot of other agencies that got infiltrated bigtime. He is dancing with Repubicans in an effort to get stuff done whilst the Republicans have said, right out loud, that is simply not going to happen. His edge is, I think, simply too think. My own thought is that he should do everything he can to assure a win in 2022 and THEN have at it!

Of course that means imbuing some sort of discipline in the Democratic party and fix their messaging problems. Don't see that happening either. I have also noticed that he is starting to age.

Its interesting. Seem a lot of our problems have to do with a variety of mouths working hard to screw it up. One would think there are rules?
Posted By: Greger Re: Confused - 06/10/21 04:12 PM
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We have a group of people determined to destroy the government and replace it with somebody who will wreck any freedoms we might have. This is ongoing, reported daily, yet nothing seems to happen.

What we do not have is consensus on which side is trying to destroy the government...

Republicans say it's the socialists. Biden and his radical agenda.

Democrats say it's the fascists. Trump and his radical agenda.

The truth is that it's the billionaires.
Posted By: perotista Re: Confused - 06/10/21 05:31 PM
Most billionaires play both sides of the fence except a few like Koch and Soros. They invest, er donate to both parties and their candidates. More to the party and candidates they think will win, but they always give to the other party and its candidates just in case they win. That way, regardless of who the winner is, they owe these so called moneyed folks.

Here recently their money has been going to the Democrats. Which makes sense since Obama twice was the favored to win along with Hillary Clinton and Biden. Before that their money went to G.W. Bush twice, Bill Clinton twice, G.H.W. Bush in 1988 and Reagan twice. They simply funded the favorite, politics be danged.

You can see the money from 2008-20 Here.

2020 election to cost $14 billion, blowing away spending records

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2020/10/cost-of-2020-election-14billion-update/

That doesn't include the Jan 2021 senate runoffs in Georgia where well over another billion was spent. Almost all the money from out of state.Which as I stated before makes me feel Georgia's two new senators don't belong to Georgians, they belong to the moneyed elite from out of state.

I would like to see a law that simply states that if you can't vote for a candidate, you can't invest, er, donate to that candidate. I suppose the bottom line is these billionaires get a very good return on their investments, er donations. They're smart businessmen, if they didn't get a very good return they wouldn't invest.
Posted By: Greger Re: Confused - 06/10/21 07:30 PM
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They're smart businessmen, if they didn't get a very good return they wouldn't invest.

They have engineered low taxes, low wages, lax regulation and minimal oversight. They have engineered partisan gridlock which benefits only them. They have engineered for themselves a virtual Utopia where they cannot fail, where the streets are paved with gold.

The reason we can't have nice things in the USA is because they don't pay taxes.

News just broke about how little the wealthy actually pay...not just billionaires...the top 1% benefits most, but the top 10% need s to be looked at because when you make your income from investments you pretty much pay no tax.
Posted By: perotista Re: Confused - 06/10/21 11:44 PM
Exactly. we pawns in this game are way to fixated on tax rates. These moneyed elites and those in congress know that. Congress can raise the top tax rates to 50%, but will also include a bunch of loopholes and other deductions to more than off set the rise in the top rate. Republican, democrat, it doesn't matter.

You could be worth billions in investments, but be cash starved. I read a couple of articles where a couple of CEO's only wanted one dollar in yearly salary. So their taxable income is one dollar while they take the rest of it in investments, stocks, bonds, real estate and other things. They can take their capital gains which is taxed differently than income and reinvest it avoiding paying the Capital gains tax.

I'm no financial guru, I only know what I read. Perhaps we need to treat all income the same. Tax all income before any reinvestment to avoid paying taxes. I don't know if that would be feasible or the repercussions of it would be. That for those who are experts in the financial sector to figure out.

the one thing I do know, we, everyone needs to stop celebrating when the top tax bracket is raised as that in reality doesn't mean a thing. It just makes a lot of us feel better with no benefit whatsoever as the moneyed elites still pay less taxes that probably anyone on this site regardless of their tax bracket.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Confused - 06/12/21 01:31 AM
The biggest loophole makes no sense at all: The automatic basis step-up in your assets when you die. Say you bought Amazon stock back when the price was $1 per share. You bought 1000 shares. If you sell it to pay for your nursing home expenses, you pay 20% of the profit you made. If you manage to hold it until you expire, if your estate is worth less than 11 million, nobody ever pays any tax on that profit. It's not income to your heirs. Nada. Zilch.
When your heirs sell it, their basis is not $1 per share. It's whatever the prices was when you died! That's the "step-up". It lets your heirs inherit your estate's full value, with nobody ever paying tax on your acquired wealth.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Confused - 06/12/21 01:01 PM
The main problem is that we have an economy that is 99.9% obsessed with money!
Posted By: jgw Re: Confused - 06/12/21 07:30 PM
economy IS money!
Posted By: logtroll Re: Confused - 06/12/21 09:36 PM
Hahahahaha!!! Nuh-uhh! LOL

Money is just a tool to facilitate trade. Everybody has forgotten that.

I had a neighbor once, a salesman. He used to say to me, in a heavy Colombian accent, "You know why we work, Logtroll? We work to make money to buy sings!"
Posted By: logtroll Re: Confused - 06/13/21 12:22 AM
Originally Posted by jgw
economy IS money!

A curious, but unrecognized fact, is that the world’s currency is primarily debt, with money coming in far behind.

World debt is around $381 trillion, while world money supply is $37 trillion.

Does this fact have any effect on what your understanding of an “economy” is?
Posted By: logtroll Re: Confused - 06/13/21 12:23 AM
Maybe debt can be defined as money that hasn’t been created yet?
Posted By: Greger Re: Confused - 06/13/21 03:08 PM
Gold that hasn't been mined...

Fish, not yet caught...?

Taxes not yet collected...

a handful of gimme and a mouthful of much obliged...?
Posted By: logtroll Re: Confused - 06/13/21 03:10 PM
... work not yet done?

... inflation not yet inflated?
Posted By: jgw Re: Confused - 06/13/21 08:48 PM
You seem to be dedicated to whining about 'money'. Money is no less an act of faith than religion and, these days money seems to be the faith of the majority. You may not like it or even believe in it and it makes absolutely no difference. I am not sure what you battle really is about but I wish you luck. All you have to do is to find a replacement. Oh, wait a minute! There is one! Ebucks! Wonderful deal! Freely admitted faith money! Its even better than ours as ours is, basically, backed by the economy which, in turn, is money which means it continues to work. I actually bought some, a very long time ago, and then lost them when I switched a computer and its now in smoke or I would be rich! (based on absolutely NOTHING!)

I remember when we dumped the gold standard. The main thing, then, was there was simply not enough gold, in the entire world, to cover our money! I could get into the weeds in this one but I won't because its a bit insane. Our dollars, for instance, actually represent a worldwide faith in America (whether you like that or not). the UK once had that position but got replaced. I could go into the why's of it all but why bother. Its mind bending just as religion is. Oh, remember, "Faith can move mountains!"

Its probably best, when dealing with money or religion, to just let it lay because you can't win!
Posted By: logtroll Re: Confused - 06/13/21 10:30 PM
Whining? Can't win? I think we might be having another Tower of Babble incident again.

I thought I was trying to open discussion around a difficult and poorly understood concept.

Or maybe it's too uncomfortable to admit that when it comes to money we are all delusional, therefore better just keep mum?
Posted By: Greger Re: Confused - 06/14/21 02:44 PM
Yes, Loggy, perhaps you are one of those "democrats" who need to keep their mouths shut.

Money is a means of exchange and nothing more.

It doesn't become capital until one acquires enough of it that they no longer need what they have.

Some form of exploitation is always responsible for the acquired wealth of the capitalists.
Posted By: logtroll Re: Confused - 06/16/21 12:30 AM
If money makes the world go 'round, could debt make it go in the reverse direction and turn back time, like Superman did once?

Posted By: Greger Re: Confused - 06/16/21 01:47 PM
Unfortunately, no. I tried it once and debt led to financial devastation and bankruptcy. My world stopped spinning altogether but my fortunes nor the world's rotation did not reverse.
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