Capitol Hill Blue
Posted By: jgw yellowstone - 10/02/20 06:35 PM
Now throw in the subduction zone as well. Interesting times!

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1...k-end-world-spt
Posted By: perotista Re: yellowstone - 10/02/20 06:43 PM
You're link just gives me a blank page. But if Yellowstone super volcano did erupt, one wouldn't have to worry about Climate Change or over population anymore.

Humanity, those that are left, would be thrown back into the stone age. With all the debris and ash cloud thrown up in the atmosphere temperatures would plunge, no sun to grow food, what a mess for the survivors. There certainly wouldn't be many. Yellowstone has erupted three times in the past, approximately 650,000 years apart. we're due.
Posted By: Greger Re: yellowstone - 10/02/20 07:34 PM
Perfect year for it if you believe in signs and portents...
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: yellowstone - 10/02/20 07:54 PM
Better stock up on canned food. It's going to be a very long winter. Of course, if you had a windmill to run the lights in your well-insulated underground greenhouse, you could grow enough food to last a very long time. The SciFi book 7 Eves had a related plot:

======= SPOILER ALERT =========


A very high speed object hits the moon and breaks into fragments. Those fragments collide a lot and start bombarding Earth with enough meteor strikes to superheat the atmosphere and make the surface unsurvivable. Barely enough people make it to the Space Station to survive and go on to build an orbital culture. When they finally (1000+ years later) make it back to the surface, they find human groups that survived deep underground, and another group who used advanced biotech to become cetaceans. The title comes from the seven women who were ancestors of all the space-based culture.
Posted By: jgw Re: yellowstone - 10/03/20 06:38 PM
I have often wondered what ever happened to all the bomb shelters that have been created over the years. There was, if I remember correctly, an entire community created in Montana under a mountain and others too. Some were quite fancy. Every now and then they are mentioned in passing but not often.

I had a friend who was one of the first into Tokyo after we bombed the hell out of them. Thousands dead as the fires created sucked up all the oxygen. He was also one of the first to enter hiroshima and had some pretty interesting pictures of that too. My point is that in a really serious catastrophe shelters are unlikely to help. That, it seems to me, comes under the heading of "Sh*t happens!" and sometimes nothing helps.
Posted By: Greger Re: yellowstone - 10/03/20 07:17 PM
!
Elon Musk is not only investing in space...he also has a tunneling company.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: yellowstone - 10/03/20 08:24 PM
Most bomb shelters are good for a few hours while the bombs are falling. Fallout shelters were stocked for a few weeks. For nuclear winter or super-volcano, it needs to keep you in food, water, temperature, and air for a couple of years. Much harder, because you need a power source. And solar panels on the surface won't work.
Posted By: jgw Re: yellowstone - 10/04/20 06:27 PM
A nice, small, SMR, could do the power job with no problem, no waste, and be completely safe in its own indestructible vault.

https://www.world-nuclear.org/informatio...r-reactors.aspx
Posted By: Greger Re: yellowstone - 10/04/20 07:41 PM
Two cities have backed out of plans to employ small modular reactors this year...dunno why, just saw a headline someplace...the good news is they may have a workable design for a fusion reactor.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: yellowstone - 10/04/20 07:55 PM
I'd sure like to see that in my lifetime. That would be fantastic. Imagine that: All the free electricity you want. Except you do have to pay for all the electrical infrastructure and people to maintain it. But at least we can stop putting carbon into the atmosphere and actually start removing some. If we need to dump excess waste heat, we could just aim simple thermal panels at the clear night sky in the desert. People have been using that method to make ice for thousands of years.

I just had an interesting thought: Summer in Egypt usually has months of temps around 100 F. But the ground temperature down a few meters is 65 - 68 F. What if the pyramids were not so much tombs, but actually summer homes with natural AC for the kings and queens of Ancient Egypt. Humans had been retreating into caves for all of their existence when conditions outside got too nasty. Egypt along the Nile didn't have many natural caves, so they constructed them!

When they died, of course they would be entombed at their favorite summer home.
Posted By: jgw Re: yellowstone - 10/05/20 05:22 PM
Fusion - the dream. They have been working on this one for a very long time and its really in the realm of "hopefully". If it was real it could supply enough heat to melt down all the plastic waste in the entire world, thereby taking care of that problem. In addition to that one, it would also be possible to start mining all the large garbage dumps of the world as well. (there are lots of thoughts like this - most of which start with; "If only we could ...."

However, with endless energy there are a lot of things that become possible that are just daydreams now.

The real difference between SMR's and the other nuclear reactors is that the SMR's are, flat out, completely safe and cannot melt down and can be manufactured in factories and delivered to site. This reduces costs by magnitudes. The only real problems is government and politics (not unlike many other things)
Posted By: Greger Re: yellowstone - 10/05/20 06:25 PM
Quote:
The only real problems is government and politics (not unlike many other things)


Nope. It's an engineering problem that hasn't been solved yet. A materials problem more than anything else.

In a nutshell...containment.
Posted By: Greger Re: yellowstone - 10/05/20 06:35 PM
Just think of it! A walnut sized sun!

Heating water and turning it to steam to spin a turbine and generate electricity...

All in a shoebox sized compartment that a city can just plug into for endless "free" energy.

Only the government is holding us back....
Posted By: jgw Re: yellowstone - 10/05/20 07:51 PM
Sorry, I wasn't specific. I was, in that instance, referring the the SMR's which have been around for a long time and pretty much ignored as well as gov refusing any and all requests for licenses just to test!
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: yellowstone - 10/05/20 11:02 PM
There have been some recent developments in super magnets lately that look very good for small fusion. People in the know aren't saying "20 years" anymore. More like "5 years", which probably means 20 actual years.
Posted By: jgw Re: yellowstone - 10/06/20 05:26 PM
They have been saying that for literally years! I think they are still working with that fusion reactor in france and that has been going on, literally for years. I have seen the recent stuff and I hope they are right but .............

It reminds me of the cure for cancer. About 5 years ago the medial cancer community got together and announced that if they could get fully funded they could get rid of cancer within 5 years. That being said they were never fully funded and we still have cancer.

We seem to spend a lot of time, and treasure, proving that we are incapable of acting in our own best interest and THAT is scary.

I suspect the same outcome, for probably the same reason, insofar as fusion is concerned. Instead we spend out treasure, and effort, on forever wars for no real reason, walls that make no real sense, and a system of healthcare that is very expensive and has worse outcomes than virtually the rest of the industrialized world, etc. (one could go on and on about such) I used to wonder a lot about this stuff but have come to realize that somehow its just the way it is <sigh>
Posted By: Greger Re: yellowstone - 10/07/20 04:21 AM
Fear not, fellow traveler, socialists will be coming into power over the next couple of generations, and technology is not slowing down.
We have just begun a new digital age and there are going to be lots of changes.

If this story was a book that I was in, but I didn't make it to the end...I feel like it would have a happy ending...even though I didn't live to see it.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: yellowstone - 10/07/20 06:24 AM
In the last five years, we have figured out excellent drugs for specific cancers. But that's the problem. Each type of cancer starts in a certain tissue and has a specific mutation that lets it grow unchecked. "Cancer" is really a symptom of dozens (or maybe hundreds) of different diseases. It's like making a cold vaccine, when over 200 hundred viruses cause colds.

As for the fusion advances, they are saying 15 years for a pilot plant:
MIT New Company
It's all about plasma containment by high-temperature superconducting magnets, they have now.
Posted By: jgw Re: yellowstone - 10/07/20 05:42 PM
I don't see socialists taking over anytime soon (sorry). I do, however, hope that we can socialize our healthcare. The trick, I think, is to approach that one from a financial view of the problem.

The nation, as a whole, would save almost 1 trillion dollars a year! That means we could start paying off a debt that has ballooned completely out of control. Our national debt is now larger than our GDP which should scare the hell out of all of us! Given that, and the utter failure of the current healthcare to take care of us, and the millions of survivors needing healthcare in the future this will have to be dealt with, if nothing else, common sense.

If this doesn't get fixed we will be a nation of the poor and the bankrupt, and the sick. Trouble, I think, in River City?

Oh, there really is a difference between socializing something and a socialist government! In this particular case socializing something is just shorthand for saying; "Taxing everybody to pay for everybody's healthcare".
Posted By: Greger Re: yellowstone - 10/08/20 08:52 PM
Quote:
I don't see socialists taking over anytime soon (sorry). I do, however, hope that we can socialize our healthcare. The trick, I think, is to approach that one from a financial view of the problem.

Socializing our health care would be a sure sign that socialists are taking over.

But I didn't exactly say it would be soon. Next 20-40 years should see things straightened out nicely. We're already seeing the early signs...

Energy should probably be socialized too.
Posted By: Greger Re: yellowstone - 10/08/20 09:02 PM
Quote:
It's all about plasma containment by high-temperature superconducting magnets, they have now.


The "high temperatures" we're talking about are on the order of 100 Million degrees.

An idea now exists on paper that "might" be able to contain something that hot.
Posted By: rporter314 Re: yellowstone - 10/09/20 06:27 PM
I didn't know what this thread was but after reading a couple of posts, here's my advice? opinion?.

After watching a lot of zombie apocalypse shows ... don't trust any one ... they want to eat your brains

you may take that either seriously or humorously or both
Posted By: jgw Re: yellowstone - 10/09/20 07:12 PM
Which is, exactly, wny it should be sold as a financial thing and not a social thing. It remains interesting. Nobody, for instance, has ever called police and fire department socialist yet, basically they are. One of the southern states actually tried to privatize a fire department - that was a disaster. What we have for healthcare, right now, is a disaster and is going to get a lot worse in times to come as the long holder survivors need more and more care.

There are going to be, for instance, literally millions of Covid survivors that are going to go banko just paying their hospital bills alone.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: yellowstone - 10/10/20 08:49 PM
I'm not exactly sure what medicine can do for long-haulers. I suppose for clogged kidneys that go bad, we could give them transplants but that is already at the max limit because of how few good donors there are. Clogged lungs? Maybe some inhalation therapy that helps them develop new lung tissue. Heart and brain? Not much we can do. Maybe suggest diet changes for cardiac health? I suspect they will just have short, miserable lives and medicine will be able to do as much for them as post-Lyme victims.

But we have actually had single-payer medicine, since the health insurance industry and government have made Covid care free. The only people not covered are the ideologs who refused to get insurance even though they could easily afford it. They could actually have medical bankruptcies or lose their houses. Then they fall down into Medicaid and the rest is covered.
Posted By: jgw Re: yellowstone - 10/10/20 09:08 PM
I have no idea what they can do. I do, however, know that they are building clinics that are going to specialize in long termers and they have now formed an organization called "Survivor Corps". There are thousands of them and there will soon be millions I think.

I wasn't aware that covid care has been made free. That's a start. I think, if covid has proved anything, that our healthcare needs a serious overhaul, is too expensive and our outcomes no long measure up.

I googled it and, apparently, its really not. Here is an example: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/09/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-coronavirus-treatment-costs.html
The postings may just be too old and it actually be free. I have, however, decided to just not get it as we are being told its nothing to worry about anyway, and apparently we can just skip it?

then, again, and that being said ............
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: yellowstone - 10/11/20 07:30 AM
All the insurers, Medicare, and Medicaid have waived all copays for Covid care, indicated tests, drugs, and vaccines. "Indicated tests" is the tricky part. You have to convince your PCP or ER doc to order the test. Often they will look at your symptoms and exposure history, say you have Covid-19, and send you home without a test. They say come back if you have trouble breathing, which seems like malpractice to me. They should at least give you a bottle of Vitamin D and a pulse oximeter, and tell you to come back if your SpO2 is ever below 92.

I'm sure that's part of the reason the monoclonal antibodies have remained unapproved. No way in hell are they going to pay for a $30,000 treatment for everybody who gets exposed, when almost everybody kills the virus all by themselves with no antibody cocktail.

The morons who decided to pay for their own health care without any kind of insurance are the one's getting screwed. But after all, they took that responsibility. Now they get the consequences. Those consequences were always there, before the pandemic.
Posted By: jgw Re: yellowstone - 10/11/20 07:20 PM
I hope you are right about Covid-19 coverage. I have the VA so am covered but my wife is not. We have a pretty good system with our hospital up here. They have a testing station that is open all the time. If you have any symptoms they test you. I know some folks who claimed symptoms just so they could get tested. They do the testing and get back to you in a couple of days at most. here is our current state: http://www.clallam.net/Coronavirus/ Most of the new cases are for the 30 and under group. Our health department doesn't screw around.

If somebody gets it in a bar or restaurant they just get shut down for a couple of weeks so they are VERY careful. My concern, however, is the guy running against the current governor. Our current governor comes off as a walking stump when it comes to intelligence. The truth, however, is that this state has good numbers because he has stuck to the lines laid out by the medical folks and we are the first state to have it but have, pretty much beat it. The guy running against him is a committed Trumpy, A police chief in a town with one policeman (him), has a GED for a High School diploma, and proudly states things like; "I believe that everybody has the right to deal with Covid-19 themselves and will not mandate anything" and it gets even better with other remarks. His solution to the state money problems is to "start firing state workers".

It just continues to amaze me. The guy who was leading the kidnapping of the governor was doing it because he couldn't go to his gym! I have a son who feels the same way right now! (I keep my mouth shut) Apparently the gym thing is a social thing and those who indulge need it whether its dangerous or not. The apparent Trump solution is to try and get everybody to get Covid-19 and them that die probably deserve it, already have physical problems or are old and just need to go. He has made no bones about any of this and his true believers also seem to think that is just dandy. The guy running against our current governor tends to parrot this stuff!
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: yellowstone - 10/12/20 02:40 AM
You need to tell your son that about half the student athletes at Ohio State University who had recovered from asymptomatic or mild cases of Covid-19 had hidden heart damage. That could hurt your fitness, athletic, or gym activities in the future. Or maybe cut your life expectancy in half!

This myth about Covid-19 being harmless to the young is pure crap. It is MUCH MUCH better to do everything you can to avoid catching it. That could mean a few months of working out at home, versus a lifetime of misery.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: yellowstone - 10/12/20 02:43 AM
Back on topic, I read the other day that a four year old running uncontrolled at Yellowstone fell into a hot pool and got second degree burns all over his body. Not a place to let your young children run unleashed.
Posted By: jgw Re: yellowstone - 10/12/20 07:40 PM
My son is over 50 years old! He should simply know better. His main gripe is that he has to pay taxes and that upsets him. He is old enough to get over that one I think. I have found, however, that kids get upset with parents telling them almost anything so I just go down the road and let most pass.

I our area, incidentally, its those younger than 30 who are the ones getting it. They just don't get it but, if enough get it, the word will go out and then they will. Sometimes it takes a club to the party to make even a slight difference?
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: yellowstone - 10/12/20 08:48 PM
If he's 50, he's at that age that cardiomyopathy can lead slowly to cardiac arrest. That's the age that heart problems start to manifest. I'm worried that we may have a nation (or rather a world) of people who live a few decades and then succumb to such heart problems because of Covid-19.
Posted By: jgw Re: yellowstone - 10/14/20 04:56 PM
I am hoping that he doesn't get covid-19 On the other hand he and his wife decided to drive to the Dakotas to visit with friends and then meander back here through Wyoming, etc.

They just got back two days ago. One can only wonder.
Posted By: Greger Re: yellowstone - 10/14/20 07:19 PM
Quote:
a world) of people who live a few decades and then succumb


What else have we ever known? Wars, plagues and famines....

There is no shortage of people. And, as it turns out, there is an overabundance of Trump loving Boomers who are taking no precautions at all!
Posted By: jgw Re: yellowstone - 10/27/20 10:12 PM
Things are getting more interesting:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1...system-lake-spt
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