Capitol Hill Blue
Posted By: Mellowicious Who are the Taliban? - 09/05/21 11:43 PM
OK, I think I may have gone down the rabbit hole here.

Rick made a comment that the Taliban were generally an uneducated. It started me looking for information on them - not so much about “the Taliban,” the group we constantly hear about, but on its more cellular level.

If I want to know general info about an average soldier, I can google statistics till the cows come home. How many, what age, why enlisted, etc.

I can’t get that stuff on the Taliban, of course, for about a hundred and twenty reasons. But even the number varies greatly over time, anywhere from 3000 to 100,000.

Why does a man join with the Taliban? “Taliban,” in Pashto, means “student,” and the original Taliban actually were religious students. Are they students now? Are they even literate? Are any of them married? Do they have children?

Who are the da*n Taliban?
Posted By: Greger Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/06/21 02:00 PM
Near as I can tell, the Taliban are typical conservatives.

We haven't even begun to figure them out here...there's no chance we'd understand conservatives of an entirely different religion and culture.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/06/21 03:07 PM
Originally Posted by Greger
Near as I can tell, the Taliban are typical conservatives..
Bow
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/06/21 03:18 PM
...as I wrote on another thread, my information about the Taliban fighters (not to be confused with their upper management - their Leaders) are uneducated comes from NPR's "All Things Considered" and Terry Gross' "Fresh Air."

Because of my commute, I have lots of time to listen to the radio. smile


Just to put this out there, it's not all news for me, there's also C89.5 - Listener supported dance radio. smile

offtopic

Interesting story about how I found C89.

In my former vanpool (I am ALWAYS the driver in the vanpools - I hate other people's driving. smile ), we start off in Tacoma and we had one pick-up on the way to work. I was at the pick-up and I turned down the volume so when the other new riders got in, they radio is not blasting for them. I must have changed the station without realizing it when I turned-down the volume.

As most listeners of NPR know, they play "bumper music" between segments. A song came on that I was familiar with, it was the instrumental part of the song - but I did think that it was interesting that NPR picked THAT song to use for bumper music...and the bumper went on longer than usual...and continued....and I'm thinking....this is weird...did NPR go off the air? Then another dance song came onto the radio. Then another. THEN finally the DJ came on and called out the station call letters of C89 - Seattle's Home For Dance.

Turns out the C89 is the broadcast learning channel for the Seattle School District and has been on the air for 50 years. They play the newest dance tracks - just like a club would do. Anywhooo...I was hooked.

So now I alternate between NPR and C89 in the vanpool.

(Also a rule in vanpools is that the driver picks what's on the radio. laugh )
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/06/21 03:35 PM
From another thread:
Originally Posted by pdx rick
The average Taliban fighter is not educated - at all. THAT is why they are so easily manipulated. That nearly all women and girls in Kabul are way more educated than these religious idiots and they somehow think THEY'RE superior to these educated women?

LOL , ROTFMOL

Rick, I just did a quick search; the first link came up with a literacy rate 15% for all women and girls. If, as the article I listed somewhere but can’t find now says, Taliban are recruited from madrassas, then some, if not most, have probably received some form of education. And even a minimal education level can pretty easily outstrip a15% literacy rate. I think your comments about women and girls in Kabul are educated women are over generous. I’ll search for some Kabul-specific literacy numbers
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/06/21 03:54 PM
From my understanding, the women and girls in Kabul are just as educated as the men and boys are. In fact, I heard on the radio recently that the only Rhodes scholar in all of Afghanistan is this woman. Hmm
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/06/21 04:04 PM
Corrections: the 15% number seems to be trash. Literacy numbers seem to run around 50-55% for men 15 and older, 30% for women 15 and older. Numbers for Kabul specifically don’t seem to be available (which I should have known.)

Looks like average years in school for girls is about 5 years. They cannot be taught by men (including their fathers) and education is often cut short by early marriage.

This little foray into female education prompted by apparently very different interpretations of “educated women.”

Greger - again, an interpretation, but - typical conservatives?
I think you would draw a line between conservatives and religious conservatives? Even then, the Taliban are far more bloody than, I think, any conservative group in the US except, possibly, the Klan, who made up their own rules and enforced them by death.

You’re right; no chance of understanding the Taliban; nor would I want/need to - but talking about a group makes me want to know more about them.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/06/21 04:09 PM
That's too bad that the girls are only getting 5 years of education. Seemed that a lot more progress was made in the 20 years of US occupation, then that.
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/06/21 04:21 PM
I think the average for children of either sex is six years, although advanced education is available.

I’d venture to say the biggest change to education due to the occupation was the education of girls and women in the absence of the Taliban.

(and yes, I’m more than a little ashamed of myself for not having learned this 20 years ago.)
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/06/21 04:26 PM
It's going to be difficult for the Taliban to put horse back into the barn, the horse has been set-free to roam and explore. You can't quash that.

smile

Already the women are protesting to be a part of government - and the Taliban are doing all they know how to do - beat them back into submission. Hmm

Misogyny is the worst. frown
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/06/21 05:44 PM
Yes. And did you happen to see what the Taliban did at that protest?
Posted By: Greger Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/06/21 05:48 PM
And, much as we may clutch at our pearls, and frown on their uncivilized ways, we must remember that these folks are not actually civilized in any modern sense of the world.

There's about an 800-year wokeness gap between them and us.

Much like the gap between us and the American Taliban.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/06/21 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by Greger
...Much like the gap between us and the American Taliban.

:ohsnap:


In all seriousness, I find little difference between the Taliban and th American Religious Conservative. Hmm
Posted By: Greger Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/06/21 05:54 PM
Originally Posted by Mellowicious
Yes. And did you happen to see what the Taliban did at that protest?
Second amendment solutions have become the norm there too.
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/06/21 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by pdx rick
In all seriousness, I find little difference between the Taliban and th American Religious Conservative. Hmm

The Taliban are much more willing to use deadly force.
The Taliban, in the past, have prohibited education for girls and women.
The punishment for homosexuality, by Taliban law, includes but is not limited to honor killing. Recent punishments have included rape and severe beating, not separately, but one after the other.

There are still some noticeable differences.
Posted By: Greger Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/06/21 11:59 PM
Quote
There are still some noticeable differences.

Like what? Have you looked at the rate of mass shootings in the US? Deadly force is easy for these folks.

Women's rights just took a huge hit here too.

Transgender kids continue to struggle...I don't wanna even think about how many women may have been raped or abused over the last week in the USA.

Ya know...?
Posted By: logtroll Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/07/21 12:12 AM
At least the U.S. is the greatest nation in history on earth, and we are in the process of making it great again. Except it is already great... wait, I'm a little confused.

Maybe it's the greatest delusion of all time that we enjoy? But I bet the Talibano Boys think they are greater than America right now... are they?

Whoa, I think my mind is blowing............... it's fer sure smokin'.

eek2
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/07/21 01:20 AM
Murders happen here all the time, yes, but they’re generally not legally sanctioned.

I’m not even going to refer to killings by the police; they are generally racial and situationl.I’m not discounting that; I jus5 think they’re a different kettle of fish - an important one, but different.

But, generally speaking, our government doesn’t run around beating or killing citizens. The Taliban does.

Legally-sanctioned blood in the streets. It does make a difference.

(Yes, Greger, I know about mass shootings; we had one of our own right here in Omaha, not long after I moved here.)

Oh, and - the fact that we have a lot of violence here does not make the violence there any more acceptable. Quantity may be less in total, because there are fewer people. But there it’s not random lunatics at a shopping mall; it’s the government, not at all random, but fully intentional. It’s the government. They’re lunatics too - but they’re in charge.
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/07/21 01:23 AM
Death squads, anyone? How about some throat-slitting?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_by_the_Taliban
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/07/21 10:36 AM
So, the Taliban is only slightly worse than the American Christian Conservative (ACC). laugh

/snark smile
Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/07/21 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by pdx rick
So, the Taliban is only slightly worse than the American Christian Conservative (ACC). laugh

/snark smile

So I guess I am not the only one who noticed. 🤣
Posted By: Greger Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/07/21 04:47 PM
A different kettle of fish perhaps, but still a kettle of fish.

Four just killed in a nearby town(Lakeland)...including a baby. An 11-year-old girl, shot multiple times survived. An ex-Marine Iran/Afghanistan vet gone off his rocker.

On Jan 6 we saw what happens when these folks are turned loose on society. When their actions are "sanctioned" by the president. A president who might easily get re-elected and who generously sanctions all sorts of violence against anyone who stands against him...

The only difference between these two kettles of fish is that one is in my backyard and the other a million miles away.
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/07/21 05:05 PM
Greger, not a contradiction but a clarification: my comment about “different kettle of fish” referred only to police killings, as I couldn’t whether they should be classed as government ordered, or government sanctioned. For me, those two things are different.

The other note I’d like to make is that the incidents you name are prompted not by religion, nor by law. And it’s the violence according to the law that I believe puts the Taliban in a “class” of its own.
Posted By: Greger Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/07/21 05:53 PM
I don't really know what rule of law currently exists in Afghanistan.

They tell me Mohamedism is a peaceful religion. It's not. It's a religion that enforces peace.

It's the only thing that stopped the tribes from killing each other. Remember...these folks refused to bow the the Jesus phenomenon, they battled on for another 1200 years before Mohamed brought peace.

I feel like the leadership is trying to act a little bit like adults. But you know how the Trumpers on the streets react whenever one of their leaders tries to get them to take the vaccination....
Posted By: Mellowicious Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/07/21 07:26 PM
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/7/taliban-announce-acting-ministers-of-new-government

The Taliban is (are?) the rule of law. There are still some formalities but they’re definitely defining the rule of law.

I haven’t exactly bowed to the Jesus phenomenon, myself…

Philosophical, and honest, question: how can religion enforce peace? I’m trying to wrap my head around it.

Enforce: to cause something to happen by necessity or force
Can I assume you mean the appearance f peace, and not actual peace? Yes, I know it’s a dumb question.
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/08/21 01:58 AM
Welp..so much for the "New and Improved" Taliban... THAT lasted for a week. coffee

Taliban form all-male Afghan government of old guard members
WaPo.com
Posted By: Greger Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/08/21 02:02 AM
"We are peacekeepers, not soldiers."

"Didn't you just chop someone's head off...?"

"Motherf*cker was real peaceful after that."
Posted By: Greger Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/08/21 02:22 AM
Quote
Taliban form all-male Afghan government of old guard members

No surprise there. The goal is to get rid of western influence, not embrace it.

It won't be the first time a group of old men ruled with an iron fist, nor is it liable to be the last.
Posted By: pondering_it_all Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/11/21 02:04 AM
I've actually worked as officemates with some Muslim engineers. Very peaceful fellows. No fights at all about religion, just give them a room where they can go pray five times a day, and don't insist they try the pork appetizers. I've even had lunch with them and ordered baby back ribs, with no problem at all. Very similar to Mormons I've worked with. They don't mind at all if you drink, they just order a soft drink.

One place there were Hindoo, Buddhist, Muslim, Christian, Atheist, and maybe even a Sikh or two. We all got along fine. The Muslims seemed a lot more normal than the Hindoo guys. Like no elephant god figurines hanging from their rear-view mirrors!
Posted By: pdx rick Re: Who are the Taliban? - 09/11/21 04:56 AM
The "stranded" Americans that remained when the US Military left Afghanistan, went home today on a flight. Rightwigers are so GRRRRRRRR mad that no one was harmed. Rightwingers want for anything bad to happen to diminish Joe Biden's presidency - especially the orange blowhard, Trump.

crazy
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