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#277380 03/13/15 07:53 PM
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Ardy Offline OP
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i thought it would be interesting to check the religious views of lincoln... who could be considered a founding father of the republican party

Lincoln's parents were Hard-shell Baptists, joining the Little Pigeon Baptist Church near Lincoln City, Indiana, in 1823.[8] In 1831, Lincoln moved to New Salem, which had no churches.[9] However, historian Mark Noll states that "Lincoln never joined a church nor ever made a clear profession of standard Christian belief."[10] Noll quotes Lincoln's friend Jesse Fell:

that the president "seldom communicated to anyone his views" on religion, and he went on to suggest that those views were not orthodox: "on the innate depravity of man, the character and office of the great head of the Church, the Atonement, the infallibility of the written revelation, the performance of miracles, the nature and design of...future rewards and punishments...and many other subjects, he held opinions utterly at variance with what are usually taught in the church."[11]

Noll argues Lincoln was turned against organized Christianity by his experiences as a young man witnessing how excessive emotion and bitter sectarian quarrels marked yearly camp meetings and the ministry of traveling preachers.[12] As a young man, Lincoln enjoyed reading the works of deists such as Thomas Paine. He drafted a pamphlet incorporating such ideas. Nonetheless, after charges of hostility to Christianity almost cost him a congressional bid, he kept his unorthodox interests private.[13]


from wiki


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Originally Posted By: Ardy
i thought it would be interesting to check the religious views of lincoln... who could be considered a founding father of the republican party
...
Which does not necessarily imply that a Lincoln Republican bears any correlation to say, a TEA Party Republican, or a PNAC Republican, or Reagan Republican, or even a Boehner Republican.

Of course, Lincoln's views on religion support the notion that the GOP has morphed into something very different. (I assume that was your point...)


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Ardy Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: logtroll

Of course, Lincoln's views on religion support the notion that the GOP has morphed into something very different. (I assume that was your point...)



something like that

conservative tend to be republicans
and tend to become pedantic in mantaining as how we are an explicitly christian nation and that the founders we all devoted christians. etc. etc.

ok so what about the most significant republican politician. the gop is after all the party of lincoln. so one might expect such a mythical figure to embody what they claim to be true

except it aint so. and for that matter. their other hero ronald reagan was mostly religious rhetoric. not a church goer and definitely not born again.

just sayin.....


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Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: Ardy
i thought it would be interesting to check the religious views of lincoln... who could be considered a founding father of the republican party
...
Which does not necessarily imply that a Lincoln Republican bears any correlation to say, a TEA Party Republican, or a PNAC Republican, or Reagan Republican, or even a Boehner Republican.

Dems and Rethugs switched philosophies after 1964 and those new philosophies became cemented in Nixon's southern strategy.


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The Southern Strategy was a ploy to bring all the racists together into one party.
Lincoln was a racist. An abolitionist, certainly, when it suited his political goals, but a racist none the less.

Quote:
Here is his famous quote from a debate with Sen. Steven Douglas, from "The National Park Service website's "Lincoln Home Historical Site's Page," entitled "Fourth Debate Charleston Illinois":

I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]-that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.


Lincoln may have been at least partly right. Even now, 150 years later, the two races have enormous difficulties living together.
This, in my mind, must be the fault of White Americans who simply cannot fathom that anyone different from them can possibly be equal.


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Reagan believed in astrology, so I would say actual Christianity was pretty far in his background beliefs. Like most Americans who say they are Christian, but only claim that tradition because they don't want to be identified with some other cultural group.

Like my mom, who says she is Christian but believes in reincarnation. I guess if Jesus comes in this lifetime, she is saved. If He's late, she is coming back as somebody else. Probably a Hindu or a Chinese Communist, by the numbers.


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An opinion piece appearing in the mouthpiece of American Communism that seems germane - though totally wrong, it goes without saying.


NYT


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Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan

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