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We like to talk about the new testament in these contexts but the Torah also has a great history of being rewritten and retranslated over time. One of the great finds in the dead sea scrolls were a number of scrolls detailing the evolution of the book of isaiah.I see some inspiration in the bible but I view it as the work of man and therefore always with great skepticism.I am always saddened by the wholesale acceptance of it as the "word of god."


sure, you can talk to god, but if you don't listen then what's the use? so, onward through the fog!
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There are some lessons to be learned from the Old Testament. Some of which are things not to do-like selling your daughters into marriage or doing cruel things to others.


milk and Girl Scout cookies ;-)

Save your breath-You may need it to blow up your date.




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Lol


sure, you can talk to god, but if you don't listen then what's the use? so, onward through the fog!
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Originally Posted By: 2wins
Lol


I was being serious, but then I re-read my post and saw the humor in it. Thanks, 2wins, for making see it in a different way! LOL


milk and Girl Scout cookies ;-)

Save your breath-You may need it to blow up your date.




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I am not a Christian myself, but I don't think most Americans are either. For example, most "Christians" firmly believe that our departed loved ones are in heaven looking down on us. That is pretty much their whole reason for being Christian: When you die, you go to heaven if you were good on Earth.

But the Bible says only Prophets and Saints join God and Jesus in heaven when they die. The rest of us get a dirt nap until Judgement Day. Then we rise from the dead and get sorted out into up or down-bound travelers. So no, your loved ones are NOT in heaven, unless you believe in Hallmark Christianity-lite (TM).

The odds of getting into heaven are pretty bad, too. Only 144,000 people out of the many billions of people on Earth since Christ came are granted "grace" from birth. They WILL go the heaven, and you probably won't no matter how good you were. At those odds you are more likely to win the lottery.

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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
...At those odds you are more likely to win the lottery.
Ahhh! Winning the lottery would be like heaven!


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I am not a Christian myself, but I don't think most Americans are either. For example, most "Christians" firmly believe that our departed loved ones are in heaven looking down on us. That is pretty much their whole reason for being Christian: When you die, you go to heaven if you were good on Earth.

But the Bible says only Prophets and Saints join God and Jesus in heaven when they die. The rest of us get a dirt nap until Judgement Day. Then we rise from the dead and get sorted out into up or down-bound travelers. So no, your loved ones are NOT in heaven, unless you believe in Hallmark Christianity-lite (TM).

The odds of getting into heaven are pretty bad, too. Only 144,000 people out of the many billions of people on Earth since Christ came are granted "grace" from birth. They WILL go the heaven, and you probably won't no matter how good you were. At those odds you are more likely to win the lottery.


I agree that we Christians will be waiting for Judgement Day. But as to the 144,000? Well I'll let God/Jesus/Holy Spirit decide. wink


milk and Girl Scout cookies ;-)

Save your breath-You may need it to blow up your date.




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Originally Posted By: Scoutgal
I agree that we Christians will be waiting for Judgement Day. But as to the 144,000? Well I'll let God/Jesus/Holy Spirit decide. wink

As being also a person of science, Scoutgal, what is your basis for belief in the Christian concepts of heaven and the Trinity and such?


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In my view, judgement day is every day. Although I am not consistent about it (or anything else in my life) I try to at least occasionally review my behavior and see if I am behaving as I profess. "Live your own beliefs" is my mantra. I won't be waiting for anyone else to render judgment.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: Scoutgal
I agree that we Christians will be waiting for Judgement Day. But as to the 144,000? Well I'll let God/Jesus/Holy Spirit decide. wink

As being also a person of science, Scoutgal, what is your basis for belief in the Christian concepts of heaven and the Trinity and such?


I believe that God created science-and God gave us brains and the ability to think and reason. Jesus promises a paradise/Heaven and we know(at least we Christians believe we know) that some have already gone there. So it would follow(by using deductive reasoning) that we are in a waiting mode until Jesus' second coming. It is a matter of faith. Kind of like believing in scientific theories like E=mc2.


milk and Girl Scout cookies ;-)

Save your breath-You may need it to blow up your date.




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