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#298040 01/11/17 07:00 PM
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jgw Offline OP
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We seem to have serious problem, with OUR government and nobody seems to even vaguely care. I will try and give 2 examples of this. This first is that our own government doesn't seem to have any idea of just how many agencies it has.

https://cei.org/blog/nobody-knows-how-many-federal-agencies-exist
http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/03/the-government-has-no-idea-how-many-agencies-it-has/

googled "number of agencies in the federal government" and got 239,000,000 replies.

Then there are our intelligence agencies. It would seem that we have so many that no single human being has any idea of who/what they are, what they are doing, etc. The link below was printed in 2010 and there is no reason to believe that there have been any changes in this problem since then.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/top-s...beyond-control/

I have not heard a single elected even utter the word "fix". I would add, to that club, talking heads of tv, and anybody from the administration. The last major reorganization of gov occurred, I think, in 1947 was the Hoover Commission which was established by Harry Truman and was responsible for a number of major reorganizations. I don't think there is a single business, that hires more than 1000, that does not hire consultants to examine their businesses and make suggestions. The same, obviously, does not apply to OUR government which has not had this done in almost 70 years.

I also tend to believe that if our government is, based on the above and stuff I am sure the rest of your can easily add to these examples. If this is true then, I think, an out of control government just may have something to do with a growing lack of faith, on the part of its citizens, in their government.

I am sure I have probably mentioned this stuff before but I think its worth a revisit. This is especially true when our 2 political parties choose what we have been told are the least liked candidates we have ever been presented with, that not only are our politics toxic and an offence (on any number of levels), but our government is, obviously, out of control (and nobody there seems to care). Throw in unending wars that cannot be won, an electorate that seems dysfunctional, and disinterested, I would venture the thought that we are in deep, deep, sh*t.

In the past we have always been able to blunder through. This time, however, I am beginning to have doubts <sigh>

jgw #298044 01/11/17 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: jgw
We seem to have serious problem, with OUR government and nobody seems to even vaguely care.

OUR government? It certainly isn't MY government!! I gave up on it years ago.

It is ridiculously nave to think it can be "fixed".

The only thing that will work is to start all over again from the beginning.

But most people aren't up for the hard work that means --- YET!
.


Once, weapons were manufactured to fight wars; today, wars are manufactured to sell weapons

It is far easier to deceive folks than to convince them they are deceived
matthew #298058 01/12/17 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted By: matthew
Originally Posted By: jgw
We seem to have serious problem, with OUR government and nobody seems to even vaguely care.

OUR government? It certainly isn't MY government!! I gave up on it years ago.

It is ridiculously nave to think it can be "fixed".

The only thing that will work is to start all over again from the beginning.

But most people aren't up for the hard work that means --- YET!
.


The pain threshold of the American petite bourgeoisie has been increased by 8 years of Obama. I am waiting to see how long it will take to bring that down to negative levels.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



Ezekiel #298059 01/12/17 11:56 AM
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That's a bit obscure. Translation?


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
jgw #298065 01/12/17 06:59 PM
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I'm sorry,jgw (et al), that you've bought into the hype/meme. How big is "the government"? WaPo (subscription).


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
jgw #298067 01/12/17 08:36 PM
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BIG .... BIGNESS ... BIGGEST ... BIGGIER

conservatives like to confuse/conflate big with limited ... we have a limited government ... bureaucracies are inherently bloated

it is too bad conservatives think our government should be limited to the original 4 cabinet positions .... the problems facing government are larger or of greater impact on daily life thus demanding a granular approach for effective solutions


ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
jgw #298081 01/13/17 09:11 AM
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Simple people think all problems are simple. They aren't. You need to find solutions that are elegant instead of simple. They actually need to solve those problems, not just sound like they do.

This is the fundamental difference between Democrats and Republicans. Democrats like to identify real problems and implement real solutions that actually work. Republicans prefer fake problems (like voter fraud) and invent ideologically pure "solutions" with a snowball's chance in Hell of working. Then they brag about it and blame Democrats for their failures.

jgw #298099 01/13/17 09:51 PM
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I am a bit confused with the replies. Apparently nobody thinks its odd that OUR GOVERNMENT actually has no idea how many agencies it is, ie. it is ignorant of its own constituent parts (agencies). This is not an artifact of big government its an artifact of a failed government. It also means that there are regulators, of the government, that the government doesn't even know exist! For those of you who claim that OUR GOVERNMENT is not theirs is just plain strange. My suggestion is that you move to some place else to passively go through life whilst taking no responsibility. I cannot resist. For those of you who claim that the current president is not their president I would point out that you really don't get it. You do not have a choice - we have one president, he/she is it and he/she is ours whether we like it or not - its just the way it is.

I see others who don't argue the facts but think that fixing anything would be a complete waste of time. Sorry, can't buy that one. If Harry Truman (Democrat) could get the gov reorganized (several times) due to the Hoover (Republican) Commission I see no reason why we can't do that again. Instead, apparently, we just have to accept that we will be ruled by the greedy until there is blood in the streets.

I would like to see a new commission to make a run at reorganization. I would also like to see gov take a prime time spot, on public radio/tv reserved for shows on individual agencies and what they do (gov currently seems to think that mysterious government is the way to go).

I would also like to see a law that made voting mandatory. If somebody can't make up their mind, or don't like the choices they need not vote but leave that part of the ballot blank but they MUST submit the ballot (which, in itself, sends a message to them that rule). I also believe that EVERYBODY should pay tax, even the poor. It need not be much but it should be something. Its part of the deal, as far as I am concerned. Its pretty obvious to anybody who is watching that having a class or passive, non-interested, self obsessed citizenry is not exact working well.

I remember once, years ago, I was working in a little business and there was a customer that spent a lot of time whining about the elites and rich and how those that we poor and not rich were screwed over by those same elites and rich. I finally took a breath and suggested that she could easily join up with all them elites and rich if she really wanted to. She thought that was a real big joke. She said 'sure', that's likely to happen. I told her what to do. It was pretty simple. I had a friend who was constantly working at good works, making local gov better, etc. and he was constantly whining that there were never enough volunteers to help in his efforts and I sent her to him. She had no kids and was not married and had a lot of time on her hands. My friend helped her out by making her real busy, real quick. Over the years, with some amusement, I watched as she volunteered to run for city council, then state rep, etc. She is now gone but, before she died she did some good work - just needed a bit of help to get started. (she also got married and had kids).

So, if you think fixing gov is a complete waste of time, as far as I am concerned, YOU are the problem. If there are no solutions, and nobody is willing to even try, then we are, basically all doomed and might as well end it all right now <sigh>.

I also, incidentally, favor the draft. I believe that, when we had the draft, that the draft help bring the country together and did much to curve our lust for war. It was also educational. In every small town there is always the toughest guy in town. When we had a draft the toughest guy in town learned, quickly, that there is ALWAYS somebody a bit tougher <G>. Think on it, If we goto war, and start killing people, then the justification is that we are at risk, and it needs to be done. Now, however, there seems to be no curbing and we seem to be having wars that we cannot win on a regular basis. Apparently, when one of ours gets killed in one of these wars these days its apparently ok because the deceased volunteered and probably deserved it.

jgw #298106 01/14/17 02:15 AM
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There are several problems with your rant:

1. Who exactly is this "they don't know everything" you are talking about. The President? The head of the GAO? Is somebody supposed to keep track of every single thing the government does and which person is responsible? Big corporations are not as big as the government and they certainly do not work that way. The CEO sets a broad agenda and has executives to oversee them, They have lieutenants, etc. all the way down. Somebody supervising 20 people might know everything they are doing, but he would be accused of being a micro-manager. I am sure that every department head knows exactly the responsibilities of his department. There really is not a lot of overlap (because we rarely hear of jurisdictional conflicts), but our government is responsible for MANY MANY things because a country like the US is very complex. Way too complex for one person to keep every detail in his mind at once. This is why we write things down.

Any attempt to reorganize will just shuffle responsibilities around. Fine if that's how you want to waste MANY MANY man-hours and billions of dollars.

I really doubt that 95% of government agencies are secret, and the ones that are need to stay that way. All of them have websites that talk about their responsibilities and actions. You just have not read them all.

Mandatory voting and involvement? Fine. I vote in every election anyway. Why not make everybody else. My wife's sister never votes just so she won't be called for jury duty! I'd like to stop that.

The draft: We always had problems with that, because of deferments for students (children of the rich) and all sorts of special service programs for those rich kids when they went in. I can see a two years mandatory service plan for both genders, with no exceptions. But expand the definition of "service" to include Conservation Corp, teaching in depressed areas, Peace Corp, etc. so those with religious or ethical objection can serve as well. If you are in college and doing okay, service is delayed but never cancelled. So we get lots of High School grads right out of school up to people with PhDs.

jgw #298109 01/14/17 03:57 PM
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Want to know how many "Agencies" the Federal Government has check the Federal Register. Or for those that want to know more, dig into the budget. Won't find the classified agencies, but you can find enough info to get a good idea. The authors of those two articles did little research IMO.


Last edited by Ujest Shurly; 01/14/17 04:04 PM.

Vote 2022!

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!
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