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#335788 09/09/21 02:15 AM
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“In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witness against him, to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense..”

In cases where the constitution is restricted to citizens, it generally says so.

Question 1:
Today, or was it yesterday, pre-trial hearings for Guantanamo prisoners began, almost 20 years after 9/11. I’d say they were charged, but I don’t believe all of them ever were charged - certainly not in the first 10 years.

Any of the men who spent 20 years at Guantanamo who wasn’t a terrorist when he was imprisoned, is likely to be one now, and probably some of his friends and family as well.

Question 2: When Osama bin Laden was captured, he was killed at sea and his body dumped. Why was
he not tried in a court of law, at Nuremberg (or the
current version thereof?) I thought at the time that we
made him a martyr; I also believe that it would be rightfully called an assassination.

I have no sympathy for bin Laden. I don’t know enough yet about the Guantánamo Bay prisoners to have sympathy for them either. But I do find these events to have blatant disregard for the justice people wave flags about.

Why did we get away with it?
=============================
Correction - my memory is clearly faulty here. bin Laden was killed in Abbottobad (sp.) This was clearly, in my view, still an assassination. But I clearly remember someone being buried at sea; if it wasn’t bin Laden, who was it?

Last edited by Mellowicious; 09/09/21 03:09 PM. Reason: Correction? Retraction?

Julia
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Bin Laden was buried at sea to prevent his final resting place from becoming a mecca for martyrs.

Hitler's remains were hidden as well.

Yes, it was an assassination.

Foreign actors are often NOT granted Constitutional rights or speedy trials.

There were a few things that the founders never imagined would happen. Back in those days, they'd have likely been hung without a trial.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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Thank you. I was beginning to think I had dreamed (nightmared) that burial at sea.

It still upsets me that the US ordered and carried out an assassination. I’m sure it’s not the first time but to me it’s a shameful thing, not to celebrated in the news and the streets.

Last edited by Mellowicious; 09/09/21 06:09 PM. Reason: Another, different brain f*rt

Julia
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Its my understanding that there are several prisoners at Guantanamo who have not been charged. The problem is that they didn't do anything wrong but there is nobody that will take them. If they are turned loose they have no place to go so we just kept them.

Its obviously the new American Way. If you fail just keep on doing it for years (failing) in the hope something will change so failure and defeat need not be admitted or apply.

Its just one of them "in the fullness of time" deals.

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Yeah. Kinda makes my skin crawl.


Julia
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Trump just brazenly assassinated Qasem Soleimani without so much as disturbing a hair on his political pompadour.

And made it clear there was nothing anyone could do about it.


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Yeah. I wonder if it’s been going on forever, and it’s only the advent of the web that has made it public. I may be wildly wrong - I was only a toddler in ‘63 - but I have a feeling JFK might have taken out Castro had he had the opportunity. what I’ve read tells me President Diem of South Vietnam was carried out with the tacit approval of JFK as well.

Jeebus, it HAS Been going on a long time.


Julia
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Since the dawn of man...same with the Gitmo crowd...

It's not always terrorists. Sometimes it's witches. Sometimes it's pirates. Sometimes smugglers, sometimes slavers, drug dealers...black guys selling single cigs.

Someone's always getting a raw deal.


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I'm pretty sure Osama was killed on the ground, while resisting capture. Not in the air. When people declare war on the US, they can surrender to US Agents or armed forces. Killing somebody who is surrendering is a war crime. But if they are fighting US forces, they have no rights until apprehended. If US agents or armed forces kill them during the fight, that's what they were supposed to do. That's how war and police work.

"Take no prisoners." means war crimes are going to be committed, and people can be prosecuted for them.


We're flying electric helicopters on Mars yet you can't turn on your clothes dryer in Texas. That's because scientists are in charge of Mars, and Republicans are in charge of Texas.
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I don,t think anyone was suggesting war crimes on the part of the soldiers who killed bin Laden. And yes, according to Wiki, he was killed in Pakistan, which is why I got confused about he whole burial at sea thing.


Julia
“It’s the shipwreck that leads you to the magical island.”
(Trevor Noah)
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