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Pooh-Bah
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Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler
Slipped Mickey just wrote the best post of the entire year...at least so far. Year ain't over yet and who knows, he may grace us with another one even better. Bow

I think you put it in a nutshell perfectly.
Hasan did radicalize and apparently he was called on it by his fellow Muslim soldiers on several occasions, and it wasn't picked up on, perhaps partly because his Muslim partners were afraid of repercussions and perhaps partly because there is maybe some built in complacency that is systemic in nature like it is in any extremely large organization such as the military.

We all know that there is a certain sense of complacency in the rest of government. We know because we're always goddam complaining about it...that's why I know WE KNOW.

And so it goes in the military as well, yes?
So there's the issue of fear, and the issue of complacency, which together form a wall that is hard to breach.
Maybe if Hasan had stood up, started throwing crap around and yelled about his love of suicide bombers and his duty to commit jihad in the mess hall one day, he would have been picked up and examined, someone higher up would have thrown a large enough red flag that he would have to submit to some analysis, maybe he would have gotten a PTSD des or maybe a Big Chicken Dinner.

But I suspect he wouldn't have been allowed to ripen to the point of bursting like he did.

But Hasan maintained that quiet exterior, that unnoticeable and studious look that said "everything's alright".
Only in front of his fellow Muslim soldiers did he argue and show his true fundie stripes. And they dared not speak a word of it because they feared being put in the spotlight as Muslim soldiers in the United States Army.

We missed the ball on this one. It wasn't a terrorist attack, and I for one am ready to believe wholeheartedly that any mainstream Muslim with the heart and the guts to enlist and serve in our military does so because they are invested in the notion that this is an America that can accomodate the idea of a Muslim who loves an America that is free, free where they can be free to worship and believe the same way that the rest of us do in our own right.

And to me that takes an awful lot of guts, to sign up and serve as a Muslim in the American military. It probably takes more guts than you or I will ever comprehend.

And Hasan was having a simple crisis of guts, where he believed that HIS OWN interpretation of Islam was the ONLY interpretation.
And as Mickey said, that's about the time he skipped over into
DSM-IV Land, and said goodbye to his service as an American soldier and began his service to bloody holy jihad instead.

And we just weren't sharp enough to notice when he slipped away all those years ago.

Thanks for the kind words, Checkers.

I am afraid you are correct about the Muslim men and women serving in the US military. How much "camel jockey" can one person take from the people who are suppose to have your back?

The fact that the far right won't let up on pushing the Muslims infiltrating our army button mean that down at ground level American troops who happen to be Muslim are really taking a beating now from the far right and likely from ultra right soldiers. Ironic, isn't it? Probably a little peace love and understanding would have allowed Maj. Hasan to reach out to his army mates. Instead the constant barrage of ethnic and religious bigotry from ultra right dumbasses likely forced Hasan to seek comfort and solace in his faith. The more they pushed the more he was alienated and the deeper he went until he reached fundamentalism, which embraced him.

So what happens now? Seems as if the ultra right dirt balls will be even tougher on their Muslim brothers and sisters in arms and will likely force even more to cross the line. I think you are correct. And as I said before the US military cannot do much at all about fundamentalism unless they attack they attack all factions of fundamentalism. The Christiban won't permit that. One hell of a dilemma for the vast majority.


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Originally Posted by Slipped Mickey
[snip] Instead the constant barrage of ethnic and religious bigotry from ultra right dumbasses likely forced Hasan to seek comfort and solace in his faith. The more they pushed the more he was alienated and the deeper he went until he reached fundamentalism, which embraced him.

So what happens now? Seems as if the ultra right dirt balls will be even tougher on their Muslim brothers and sisters in arms and will likely force even more to cross the line.[snip] The Christiban[ won't permit that. One hell of a dilemma for the vast majority.
feedtrolls Thanx for sharing your too obviously bigoted opinion in re the motivation for Major Hasan's murderous outburst. Of course your opinions are your own.

Last edited by Harvey3; 11/08/09 10:06 PM. Reason: context
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All ranters, inhale, hold and release. Things are getting a might bit personal in here, so before we moderators have to step in, please cool things down. Maybe get away from this thread for a while, that often works for me.

At any rate, genug ist genug.

Phil Hoskins, moderator


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Does anyone know how the Air Force became so infested with Fundies? It was never that bad in the Army. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of fundies I knew in the Army. None were officers. Mid level NCOs.

Why the Air Force and not say, the Marines or the Navy? It sounds like the entire officer corps of the Air Force has been converted into a branch of the Southern Baptist Convention.


"When fascism comes to this country it will be draped in the flag and carrying a cross"-Sinclair Lewis
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It's the Despair Quotient!
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It has.


"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
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Pooh-Bah
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Great question, Allen. I'm guessing, but I think it may have begun in Colorado Springs at the USAF Academy. Also in Colorado Springs are Focus on the Family (Dr. James Dobson), New Life Mega Church (Ted Haggard) and perhaps the greatest single concentration of Christian fundamentalists in one American city. Fundies apparently made it a mission to blitz the academy and thus by doing so infest the USAF through top down pressure from its officer corps. It seems to have worked.


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Pooh-Bah
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Allen and Checkers, don't miss reading this link which is a letter dated 2 Sep 09 to SecDef Gates from Mikey Weinstein, founder of Military Religious Freedom Foundation, concerning the ongoing issue of fundamentalism and the USAF Academy.

Military Religious Freedom Foundation


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Interesting. But what about the vast numbers of officers that are commissioned via ROTC? Is the Fundie infestation widespread throughout the Air Force or just at the Academy? I take it that this has been ongoing for a long time now.

The link provided reminds me of something I'd always noticed about the military and the military mindset:

It's juvenile. From top to bottom it's juvenile.

Further reading on his website indicates that it is a particular brand of Fundies that has particularly infested the military.

Dominionist Christianity. Those people make me shudder.

SOURCE


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Originally Posted by Allen Owen
Does anyone know how the Air Force became so infested with Fundies? It was never that bad in the Army. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of fundies I knew in the Army. None were officers. Mid level NCOs.

Why the Air Force and not say, the Marines or the Navy? It sounds like the entire officer corps of the Air Force has been converted into a branch of the Southern Baptist Convention.
perhaps it has something to doo with the academy's proximity to fundie central, colorado springs. just a guess.


sure, you can talk to god, but if you don't listen then what's the use? so, onward through the fog!
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Pooh-Bah
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Well, the point of all this is to illustrate the point that religious fanaticism exists in more than one form in the US military. I believe that point has been established. I don't believe that anyone would doubt that it is a problem. The question then is how does the army deal with the fanaticism of one group without encouraging the other group of religious fanatics?


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