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Originally Posted By: Ezekiel
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
There is little question that this was an overreaction. But, the teacher was not to blame. He/she did the right thing, and contacted the administrator. As I understood it, the student was not just using her phone, but was talking on it, disrupting the class. She should have been disciplined.

OMG!!! Talking on the phone! They should have convened the firing squad.
It wasn't just an overreaction. It's a system that does not work. Why couldn't the teacher deescalate the situation without tossing the girl across the room? Why do they need cops for something as banal as that? Why are the overwhelming majority of these cops white, no matter what the ethnic composition of the school? Why have similar abuses been recorded across the country and they always seem to follow the same pattern (racially and socially)?
I'm sorry there is no amount of logic that justifies having a cop deal with a student who doesn't obey the teacher, unless there is something criminal in the student's behavior.


It was not the teacher who tossed the student. It was the school "peace" officer. The student was outright defiant and needed to be disciplined, but not in the way that officer handled it. Both should be punished. IMHO, since the officer had prior incidents of violence, he was rightly fired. But that girl should have some meaningful kind of discipline as well. I understand that she suffered a death of either a family member or friend, but that does not giver the right to be so disruptive and defiant. Excusing her behavior will just cause the incident to happen again. As I said before, discipline should have started at an early age(infancy). And for all teachers, school administrators and law enforcement, there should be better training in de-escalation. Learning how to peacefully nip the problem in the bud.

When I was volunteering at the high school in my neighborhood last year, the teachers required all students to label their cell phones/iPads/iPods/computer watches/pagers, put them on vibrate and deposit them in the teachers' desk drawers. The students were allowed to retrieve them on their way out of class. This made the students more likely to pay attention in class. This action was also announced to all students and parents at orientation at the beginning of each year. So no surprises. That could be one example.


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Originally Posted By: Scoutgal
Originally Posted By: Ezekiel
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
There is little question that this was an overreaction. But, the teacher was not to blame. He/she did the right thing, and contacted the administrator. As I understood it, the student was not just using her phone, but was talking on it, disrupting the class. She should have been disciplined.

OMG!!! Talking on the phone! They should have convened the firing squad.
It wasn't just an overreaction. It's a system that does not work. Why couldn't the teacher deescalate the situation without tossing the girl across the room? Why do they need cops for something as banal as that? Why are the overwhelming majority of these cops white, no matter what the ethnic composition of the school? Why have similar abuses been recorded across the country and they always seem to follow the same pattern (racially and socially)?
I'm sorry there is no amount of logic that justifies having a cop deal with a student who doesn't obey the teacher, unless there is something criminal in the student's behavior.


It was not the teacher who tossed the student. It was the school "peace" officer. The student was outright defiant and needed to be disciplined, but not in the way that officer handled it. Both should be punished. IMHO, since the officer had prior incidents of violence, he was rightly fired. But that girl should have some meaningful kind of discipline as well. I understand that she suffered a death of either a family member or friend, but that does not giver the right to be so disruptive and defiant. Excusing her behavior will just cause the incident to happen again. As I said before, discipline should have started at an early age(infancy). And for all teachers, school administrators and law enforcement, there should be better training in de-escalation. Learning how to peacefully nip the problem in the bud.

When I was volunteering at the high school in my neighborhood last year, the teachers required all students to label their cell phones/iPads/iPods/computer watches/pagers, put them on vibrate and deposit them in the teachers' desk drawers. The students were allowed to retrieve them on their way out of class. This made the students more likely to pay attention in class. This action was also announced to all students and parents at orientation at the beginning of each year. So no surprises. That could be one example.


I know it was the cop. Never said is was the teacher. The teacher called the cop who tossed the student. THAT WAS STUPID. That only escalates things.
As far as what she did: most teenagers do similar things. She is not going to school to be disciplined. And if she can't get along with others there are other ways of dealing with it: 1) warning 2) suspension and if all else fails 3) expulsion.
There are rules in all public places because it isn't just about "you", i.e. you're not alone.
My point is and remains: there is no need to call a cop for such a banal and common occurrence. Teachers have dealt with disruptive students for centuries, they should be trained to deal with it.
And if the student does not want to cooperate, he/she should not be allowed to attend classes.
Calling a cop for minor incidents simply reinforces the "police state" mentality that has taken hold of this country. It is wrong and the teacher is as much to blame as the cop. I don't care if he "followed the rules", there is (or should be) a modicum of common sense when evaluating the situation.
I know that my reaction, were she my daughter, would be fury!
I taught for several years, and even though that is not my primary occupation, even a DUMMY like me learned quickly how to de-escalate heated situations.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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Okay, let me clarify the situation somewhat. The teacher did not call the cop. THAT is why I say the teacher did the right thing. The teacher tried to get the disruptive student to put the phone away, and the girl went on being an ass. Teacher asked her to leave the room, girl refused. Teacher contacted administrator, (assistant vice principal I think) asked her to come into the hallway, girl refused. Administrator contacted the officer.

Also, officer did not have a "reputation" for violence. The two complaints were from his rookie year 8 years earlier, and not substantiated, according to some sources (the Department has not confirmed).

I agree that having cops in schools can, and does, change the dynamics of the schools, and leads to escalations in enforcement. This is something that should have been handled "after class" (depending on how disruptive she was being). Her refusal to stop being an ass is what led to the confrontation. But, she could have been removed after school.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Okay, let me clarify the situation somewhat. The teacher did not call the cop. THAT is why I say the teacher did the right thing. The teacher tried to get the disruptive student to put the phone away, and the girl went on being an ass. Teacher asked her to leave the room, girl refused. Teacher contacted administrator, (assistant vice principal I think) asked her to come into the hallway, girl refused. Administrator contacted the officer.

Also, officer did not have a "reputation" for violence. The two complaints were from his rookie year 8 years earlier, and not substantiated, according to some sources (the Department has not confirmed).

I agree that having cops in schools can, and does, change the dynamics of the schools, and leads to escalations in enforcement. This is something that should have been handled "after class" (depending on how disruptive she was being). Her refusal to stop being an ass is what led to the confrontation. But, she could have been removed after school.


Does it really matter who called the cop? The point is it still should have been handled differently and without the intervention of law enforcement.
The students called him officer "slam" - gee I wonder why?
As far as her being an ass, to my knowledge that is not a criminal offense. If it were half the country would be in jail.

HuffPo

And from eyewitness accounts the teacher and the administrator stood there and did nothing as she was being assaulted. They share the blame, yes indeed.




Last edited by Ezekiel; 10/31/15 09:34 PM.

"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Also, officer did not have a "reputation" for violence. The two complaints were from his rookie year 8 years earlier, and not substantiated, according to some sources (the Department has not confirmed).


Oh, like Michael Brown and Eric Garner, etc. etc. etc.
Like the cop who assaulted James Blake.
The list goes on. I find very little credible in cops talking about other cops.
And the second instance, if I'm not mistaken, has not been judged yet.
Does it not strike you as odd that a 250 pound man needs to attack a defenseless teenage girl in that fashion?


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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Originally Posted By: Ezekiel
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Okay, let me clarify the situation somewhat. The teacher did not call the cop. THAT is why I say the teacher did the right thing. The teacher tried to get the disruptive student to put the phone away, and the girl went on being an ass. Teacher asked her to leave the room, girl refused. Teacher contacted administrator, (assistant vice principal I think) asked her to come into the hallway, girl refused. Administrator contacted the officer.

Also, officer did not have a "reputation" for violence. The two complaints were from his rookie year 8 years earlier, and not substantiated, according to some sources (the Department has not confirmed).

I agree that having cops in schools can, and does, change the dynamics of the schools, and leads to escalations in enforcement. This is something that should have been handled "after class" (depending on how disruptive she was being). Her refusal to stop being an ass is what led to the confrontation. But, she could have been removed after school.


Does it really matter who called the cop? The point is it still should have been handled differently and without the intervention of law enforcement.
The students called him officer "slam" - gee I wonder why?
As far as her being an ass, to my knowledge that is not a criminal offense. If it were half the country would be in jail.

HuffPo


School law enforcement should only handle violent situations. Student-teacher violence, student student violence strangers coming onto campus, disaster emergencies, illegal activity and similar situations. Student discipline(and yes, students sometimes need discipline-I was also a teacher) should be handled only by teachers administrators and parents. There still needs to be better training and rulkes in place for handling situations like this.


milk and Girl Scout cookies ;-)

Save your breath-You may need it to blow up your date.




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Originally Posted By: Scoutgal
Originally Posted By: Ezekiel
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Okay, let me clarify the situation somewhat. The teacher did not call the cop. THAT is why I say the teacher did the right thing. The teacher tried to get the disruptive student to put the phone away, and the girl went on being an ass. Teacher asked her to leave the room, girl refused. Teacher contacted administrator, (assistant vice principal I think) asked her to come into the hallway, girl refused. Administrator contacted the officer.

Also, officer did not have a "reputation" for violence. The two complaints were from his rookie year 8 years earlier, and not substantiated, according to some sources (the Department has not confirmed).

I agree that having cops in schools can, and does, change the dynamics of the schools, and leads to escalations in enforcement. This is something that should have been handled "after class" (depending on how disruptive she was being). Her refusal to stop being an ass is what led to the confrontation. But, she could have been removed after school.


Does it really matter who called the cop? The point is it still should have been handled differently and without the intervention of law enforcement.
The students called him officer "slam" - gee I wonder why?
As far as her being an ass, to my knowledge that is not a criminal offense. If it were half the country would be in jail.

HuffPo


School law enforcement should only handle violent situations. Student-teacher violence, student student violence strangers coming onto campus, disaster emergencies, illegal activity and similar situations. Student discipline(and yes, students sometimes need discipline-I was also a teacher) should be handled only by teachers administrators and parents. There still needs to be better training and rulkes in place for handling situations like this.

Law enforcement should only be involved if there is criminal activity.
Discipline is best left to the parents.
I am fed up with this paramilitary horseshyte so ubiquitous in this country. The stuff of impotent phoney brave.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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I didn't disagree with the assessment that this should have been handled as discipline, not involving law enforcement. I am just not willing to condemn anyone based upon group perception, and that includes cops. Won't play that game.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I didn't disagree with the assessment that this should have been handled as discipline, not involving law enforcement. I am just not willing to condemn anyone based upon group perception, and that includes cops. Won't play that game.


Nor do I. I condemned him based on evidence. Apparently his boss agreed that the evidence was overwhelming against his actions.
My assessment is directed at a system not a person.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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Originally Posted By: Ezekiel
Originally Posted By: Scoutgal
Originally Posted By: Ezekiel
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Okay, let me clarify the situation somewhat. The teacher did not call the cop. THAT is why I say the teacher did the right thing. The teacher tried to get the disruptive student to put the phone away, and the girl went on being an ass. Teacher asked her to leave the room, girl refused. Teacher contacted administrator, (assistant vice principal I think) asked her to come into the hallway, girl refused. Administrator contacted the officer.

Also, officer did not have a "reputation" for violence. The two complaints were from his rookie year 8 years earlier, and not substantiated, according to some sources (the Department has not confirmed).

I agree that having cops in schools can, and does, change the dynamics of the schools, and leads to escalations in enforcement. This is something that should have been handled "after class" (depending on how disruptive she was being). Her refusal to stop being an ass is what led to the confrontation. But, she could have been removed after school.


Does it really matter who called the cop? The point is it still should have been handled differently and without the intervention of law enforcement.
The students called him officer "slam" - gee I wonder why?
As far as her being an ass, to my knowledge that is not a criminal offense. If it were half the country would be in jail.

HuffPo


School law enforcement should only handle violent situations. Student-teacher violence, student student violence strangers coming onto campus, disaster emergencies, illegal activity and similar situations. Student discipline(and yes, students sometimes need discipline-I was also a teacher) should be handled only by teachers administrators and parents. There still needs to be better training and rulkes in place for handling situations like this.

Law enforcement should only be involved if there is criminal activity.
Discipline is best left to the parents.
I am fed up with this paramilitary horseshyte so ubiquitous in this country. The stuff of impotent phoney brave.


This is exactly what I said. in my post here.


milk and Girl Scout cookies ;-)

Save your breath-You may need it to blow up your date.




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