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Originally Posted By: logtroll

Nobody has commented on the "justice program" described in the link (which is the reason for the topic title). It is a strategy that goes well outside of the authority and discipline mindset.


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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
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I completely agree, logt. That is how discipline should be handled. Few Districts, however, are willing to provide the kind of resources that it requires.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: logtroll

Nobody has commented on the "justice program" described in the link (which is the reason for the topic title). It is a strategy that goes well outside of the authority and discipline mindset.


It would be nice if it works, perhaps only time will tell. And I think NWP may be right: there probably aren't too many school districts that would be willing to invest the time and resources to truly building out such a program.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
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Dostoevsky



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On the whole issue of cell phones versus no cell phone allowed in class, I think there are situations where a student should be reachable by others. So simply banning cell phones or keeping them in the teacher's desk may not be acceptable. Sure a classroom is a special place where all the students and the teacher need to communicate together, but let's face it: It is not the single most important thing in the world. Keeping students incommunicado for hours or whole school days is very like kidnapping.

Maybe we should recognize this fact and let students physically excuse themselves from class to answer their cellphones. Maybe we need something like a parental override for when a cell phone is switched to "in class" mode. An override could cost $10, so it would not be abused. Switching phones to "in class" mode would be done automatically by a little radio in each classroom.

Apparently this girl was in some kind of situation with foster care and the death of a family member in which talking on her cell phone (just maybe) was more important than classroom participation. If her mental state was so fragile she considered her line of communication more important than her education, then the school should have offered her a quiet room where she could talk. Certainly not something you do everyday for all students, but it should be possible to recognize and respond to special student needs.

As adults with cell phones we all make this judgement for ourselves: Most of the time we shut down our cell phones for important meetings, but under some circumstances we don't and will excuse ourselves to go answer them.

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In fact:

Quote:
Not many news agencies have reported, or even wondered why she was asked to leave in the first place. As it turns out she had momentarily looked at her phone during class, and apologized for it at the time. Nor have they wondered why the phone issue, which she had already put away, escalated to an administrator and then the now fired school resource officer who had a reputation around the campus as "Officer Slam" for his tendency to throw students to the ground, assaulted her in the first place. They say she was "disruptive and disrespectful" but witnesses state that she was arguing that she'd done nothing wrong, which actually she hadn't. Before Slamster even approached the student he had another student move his desk and clear a path, then removed the Chromebook that was on her desk - so he planned from the moment he entered the room to assault her regardless of anything she did or didn't do.


Emphasis is mine.

HuffPo


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
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Wow. Thank you for that update. Interesting how the story is evolving.


sure, you can talk to god, but if you don't listen then what's the use? so, onward through the fog!
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That description of events is at odds with other witnesses' descriptions, and, given the author's use of conclusory logic and inflammatory (defamatory?) Language, I do not find it credible. That is the problem with journalism generally any more. Journalists no longer seek facts, they seek confirmation of their predilections. There is no discipline in the profession anymore, and the audience is lazy too.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Originally Posted By: 2wins
Wow. Thank you for that update. Interesting how the story is evolving.


NP smile And excuse my rudeness: Good to see you back, 2wins.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
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"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
That description of events is at odds with other witnesses' descriptions, and, given the author's use of conclusory logic and inflammatory (defamatory?) Language, I do not find it credible. That is the problem with journalism generally any more. Journalists no longer seek facts, they seek confirmation of their predilections. There is no discipline in the profession anymore, and the audience is lazy too.


There are, always have been and always will be contradictory accounts of any event when there is more than one eyewitness. Are you sure you're not being biased with respect to your own predilection?
You weren't there. Neither was I. Neither was the person who wrote the article. All we have are second, third, fourth-hand accounts.
I agree, though, that a lot of journalism has become bastardized because of a lack of rigor in the reporting. But I tend to trust things that coincide with what I saw on the video, as opposed to some idealized version that makes one feel better.

Last edited by Ezekiel; 11/02/15 03:21 PM.

"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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You are completely wrong, Ezekiel, about what my predilections are. My interest has always been getting to "ground truth", not pursuing an agenda. Any fair reading of the Daily Kos piece cannot lead to the conclusion that the author was seeking accuracy. It appeared, and this is contextual, that the author was being directed by the student's lawyer in preparing the piece. I invite you to read it again. (The only witness interviewed was the other student arrested for interference, who is also the only source for the "officer slam" depiction - doesn't that raises red flags? What about the hundreds of students that protested the officer's firing? Might that indicate a diversity of views?)

I have never excused the officer's behavior but have tried to put it in a fair context. I've seen these events develop in real time, and it is more like dealing with a football play on the field than with the luxury of instant replay, with multiple angles and ultra-slow motion. There are many things I see there that are at odds with journalist's depictions of the situation, which make me pause. We all have our lenses, but we should allow ourselves to step back and analyze dispassionately rather than assuming. You, my friend, have made many assumptions - including about me. I invite you to challenge them.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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