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Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
You are completely wrong, Ezekiel, about what my predilections are. My interest has always been getting to "ground truth", not pursuing an agenda. Any fair reading of the Daily Kos piece cannot lead to the conclusion that the author was seeking accuracy. It appeared, and this is contextual, that the author was being directed by the student's lawyer in preparing the piece. I invite you to read it again. (The only witness interviewed was the other student arrested for interference, who is also the only source for the "officer slam" depiction - doesn't that raises red flags? What about the hundreds of students that protested the officer's firing? Might that indicate a diversity of views?)

I have never excused the officer's behavior but have tried to put it in a fair context. I've seen these events develop in real time, and it is more like dealing with a football play on the field than with the luxury of instant replay, with multiple angles and ultra-slow motion. There are many things I see there that are at odds with journalist's depictions of the situation, which make me pause. We all have our lenses, but we should allow ourselves to step back and analyze dispassionately rather than assuming. You, my friend, have made many assumptions - including about me. I invite you to challenge them.

I suggested that you may have let your predilections color your judgement. If that is not true then so be it. I, on the other hand, have had that happen to me. So it would come as no surprise that it could be the case with you.
The fact that the author of the piece takes a position is, in my opinion, much more honest than trying to make believe that one does not have an opinion. I find that to be disingenuous.
No, in fact, there have been several other students interviewed, some who actually defended the cop. But the accounts all coincide with respect to his disposition. Some thought that his being aggressive was "cool", a view that I do not share. I suggest you look at MSNBC's coverage of the story.
If you read my post you should have understood that I accept that there are a diversity of views. But, as opposed to you, I do not discard any of them off hand.
From the three different camera angles that were present during the incident, the intention of aggressive action was clear. Not sure what other proof you would think necessary.
I am NOT dispassionate, I have formed an opinion as to what happened. So have you, although you are loathe to admit it.
Every human on earth does that, so please don't try to convince me otherwise.
There IS NO EXCUSE for what he did. He deserved to be fired. The Sheriff, his superior, also thought so.
Anyone who has to deal with students and behaves in that fashion, no matter what the excuse, is not fit to do the job.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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This is, I think, the result of a general misapplication of government resources. We, as a community, are willing to fund policing, but not education - and that includes educating the educators. Because our spending priorities are skewed, the social costs are skewed. When you only hire carpenters every problem is a nail. We need more electricians.

And we fail to see the second- and third-order effects. Cops in schools means more arrests; more arrests, more convictions; more convictions, less employment; more poverty, more crime, more law enforcement. Rinse, repeat. Dumb budgeting.

Now, reverse the cycle: more education funding, less discipline required, better outcomes; better outcomes, more education, better graduation rates; more education, better wages; better wages, less poverty; less poverty, less crime, better economy; less crime, better economy, more funds available for other priorities (and tax cuts!).


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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I think a lot of what NW refers to is a product of the Internet. There are, however, still print journalists interested in facts. The problem with reporting on police activity has fallen largely in the lap of the agencies themselves. They are not interested in releasing information despite open records laws and it becomes a tug of war between journalists and law enforcement.


sure, you can talk to god, but if you don't listen then what's the use? so, onward through the fog!
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Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
This is, I think, the result of a general misapplication of government resources. We, as a community, are willing to fund policing, but not education - and that includes educating the educators. Because our spending priorities are skewed, the social costs are skewed. When you only hire carpenters every problem is a nail. We need more electricians.

And we fail to see the second- and third-order effects. Cops in schools means more arrests; more arrests, more convictions; more convictions, less employment; more poverty, more crime, more law enforcement. Rinse, repeat. Dumb budgeting.

Now, reverse the cycle: more education funding, less discipline required, better outcomes; better outcomes, more education, better graduation rates; more education, better wages; better wages, less poverty; less poverty, less crime, better economy; less crime, better economy, more funds available for other priorities (and tax cuts!).


Absolutely. That was what I would have liked to say before (but failed to say), when I said that my condemnation was of the system (education, in this case) and not the person.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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Originally Posted By: 2wins
I think a lot of what NW refers to is a product of the Internet. There are, however, still print journalists interested in facts. The problem with reporting on police activity has fallen largely in the lap of the agencies themselves. They are not interested in releasing information despite open records laws and it becomes a tug of war between journalists and law enforcement.


I agree, and I think that the fact that even the Sheriff was willing to admit error in this case speaks volumes. We have seen much more serious incidents involving the death of young men/women where the police have not been as willing to admit error.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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You and I were dealing with weeds, E, instead of tending the lawn.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
You and I were dealing with weeds, E, instead of tending the lawn.


Indeed, my friend. Indeed. ThumbsUp


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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