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#311657 03/23/19 12:47 AM
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Well, the long wait is over. Almost. In a perfect world he would be perp walked out of the White House with cameras flashing as he is loaded into a black SUV and whisked away at dawn. But this is a world where Donald John Trump was elected president. Things don't follow a logical sequence as we would expect them to. Maybe it's a result of climate change.

Before the report drops I'm gonna bet on "No Collusion". Because to even hope otherwise would set me up for another disappointment and, frankly, I've had enough of those.


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so why would everyone who had contact with Russians lied about having contact?

why would Mr Trump actively try to obstruct the investigation of a non-crime?

nothing about this makes sense.


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Nothing has really made sense since Trump was elected.


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I haven't decided of I'm excited or disappointed. I'm ready for the next stage of investigations, but I think it's going to be a long hard slog, with fights over subpoenas, stonewalling, outrageous lies, so, pretty much what we've suffered through for the last two years...

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I doesn't "make sense" because we have not seen the report yet. Don't make the mistake of assuming the report is empty, just because you have not seen it. We have no idea: It could contain a list of names and details of every crime documented. Indictments so far were just Mueller's team using standard prosecutor MO for getting information. We know there are a lot more criminals and crimes, so for now I would assume that all that info is in the report.

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Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I haven't decided of I'm excited or disappointed. I'm ready for the next stage of investigations, but I think it's going to be a long hard slog, with fights over subpoenas, stonewalling, outrageous lies, so, pretty much what we've suffered through for the last two years...

1. NW_P, what can we expect from Mueller's report?

2. "No new indictments" means exactly that. What about the already present ones that have never been unsealed, what happens to those?

3. How much of the dirty stuff do you think will could shift-over to State courts where no Federal pardon can be given?

My gut feeling is that the Mueller Report will be a roadmap for future Prosecutors as Mueller has already done the groundwork.

smile


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"No new indictments" says it all. A Republican investigation has found Republicans not guilty. The indictments we've seen have largely just been efforts to flip Trump associates. They flipped, the information they provided wasn't enough.

No Collusion, just like the President said.

Just a prediction, based on years of observation and cynicism regarding all things Republican.

Last edited by Greger; 03/23/19 02:47 PM.

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Originally Posted By: pdx rick
1. NW_P, what can we expect from Mueller's report?
Depends on how much gets released. I think it is important to go back to the letter that made the appointment, and remember two things: First, it was initially a counterintelligence investigation, and prosecutions were only an ancillary activity.

I suspect that there will be three parts to the report: a) a summary of findings regarding interference; b) indictment and declination decision summaries (which we may never see); and c) ancillary discoveries and evidence. This may be the most important part of the document, and again, may never see the light of day.

Originally Posted By: pdx rick
2. "No new indictments" means exactly that. What about the already present ones that have never been unsealed, what happens to those?
Indictments are indictments. There are many reasons they may remain sealed (e.g., Defendant is not amenable to arrest - abroad, or in the presidency). Also, remember that means no more Meuller indictments. His primary remit was to investigate interference. Many things were sent to other Justice offices and may be continued investigations and indictments. Some of the SC prosecutors are taking their cases with them to their new assignments.

Quote:
3. How much of the dirty stuff do you think will could shift-over to State courts where no Federal pardon can be given? My gut feeling is that the Mueller Report will be a roadmap for future Prosecutors as Mueller has already done the groundwork.

smile
I think a lot has already been shifted. It will be a roadmap only to the extent that it is made available.

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It's a counterintelligence investigation and it always was.

The word "collusion" has never appeared in any part of the investigation at the outset.
It was never an investigation into "collusion" because collusion is not a legal definition of a crime.
Obstruction and espionage, on the other hand, are.

The word "collusion" is a right wing straw man. Always has been.
The word collusion appears nowhere in the order authorizing Muellers investigation.
There isn't even a crime called collusion.
Mueller was ordered to investigate any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump campaign.

The purpose of the Mueller Investigation is to identify threats to our national security, potentially including the President of the United States and his associates.

I'll wait patiently for the President to tweet: "No obstruction!"

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What is happening is, exactly, the way it should be. Mueller has, basically, turned it all over to congress which, according to the constitution, is the body in charge of removing a president. This is done by doing an impeachment and then turning that over to the senate to convict. Impeachment is the case for conviction and the senate is for the judgment. In Clinton's case, for instance, he was impeached but the senate could not convict so he continued to serve. The current Democratic house currently has EVERY committee investigating. I believe that Mueller sent Cohen out to point the way and, now, they will also have the Mueller investigation for what he has discovered in the last 1.5 years. The trick, I suspect, is to control the enthusiasm for impeachment until they have all the facts and enough of those that even the sitting Republicans can no longer support Jackass and get re-elected.

We will, of course and in the fullness of time, see how it all resolves itself. The hard part will be reading and watching rampant speculation, bogus claims, lunatic claims, Democratic over enthusiasm, and a lot of bad behavior on both sides. If we all thought that the runup to the Mueller Investigation of tough just wait!

My own thought is that this stuff is going to be stretched out to 2020. Just about 4 months before the election the Dems will start to impeach (timing is EVERYTHING!) By that time I would expect the Dems to have enough so that Jackass will be lucky to not go from the presidency to prison (I know, extreme) I also suspect the children of the Jackass will get theirs as well.

Last edited by jgw; 03/23/19 06:03 PM.
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