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jgw #312311 05/22/19 11:41 AM
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Correct Gregor.
With a rationale.
It can be confusing.

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"War" has become too complex for its own good. $Trillion dollar$ airplanes and ships are ridiculous. Jets that can't fly at night or in the rain, I hear the pilots helmet alone is half a million buckeroos...ships so complex no one knows how to run them or repair them. Certainly not the poorly trained sailors driving them all over the ocean and running into things. Not just little things either...other ships minding their own business get slammed by the US Navy's gross incompetence.

None of this is to serve the country's "security" either. It's to secure the wallets of what used to be called the Military Industrial Complex.
We keep these little wars going for no other reason than to feed the bank accounts of the very wealthy.

We'll be far better off when folks just stop volunteering and refuse to be drafted.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
jgw #312313 05/22/19 04:23 PM
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They have been showing the latest and greatest rockets at Ft. Lewis on the news. Each one of the rockets, we are told, cost over 100,000.00 each. They look to be about 5 feet long. I suspect its the electronics that cost the fortune. I just don't get it. The first electronics cost the bucks, after that its automated and cost a LOT less. Seems we just pay for the first one, over and over again. The rockets are really neat and keen but the cost?

I also tend to believe that the military industrial complex for the 18 year long war in Afghanistan. I read someplace that the military has now tried exactly the same things a minimum of 4 times each and each has failed. Given that the mission remains a secret I wonder how they failed too.

Just wondering.............

jgw #312317 05/22/19 05:24 PM
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What was it, something like half a million people were ground up by our military/economic policy in Iraq alone?
We have commodified the grinding of up of human livestock since Korea with little end in sight or at least while there's money to be had.

No, I took my cues from 'Johnny got his Gun' decades ago.

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The Age of War is over. All the land has been "discovered". It's all been divided up and international law pretty much forbids anyone from taking anyone else's land. Israel is the holdout on this one.

We have the technology to destroy the planet in a matter of hours.


Whatever the question may be..."War" is the wrong answer.


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jgw #312323 05/23/19 06:54 AM
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The electronics in those rockets has to be all high reliability components. They have to work right every time. Not like cell phones or TVs. That's a big part of why they are so expensive.

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Originally Posted By: Greger
The Age of War is over. All the land has been "discovered". It's all been divided up and international law pretty much forbids anyone from taking anyone else's land. Israel is the holdout on this one.

We have the technology to destroy the planet in a matter of hours.


Whatever the question may be..."War" is the wrong answer.




The Age of War has yet to arrive. It will come with the climate trying to kill us through world wide Famine, Disease, Thirst, break down of society, failure of Rule of Law and the institution of Us Over Them. In short; the arrival of the Four Horsemen and their cousins and lesser siblings.

Fully agree with your last statement, but we will never have the chance if we do not do something now.


Vote 2022!

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!
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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
The electronics in those rockets has to be all high reliability components. They have to work right every time. Not like cell phones or TVs. That's a big part of why they are so expensive.


That is one of the reasons.
The very first official W-2 earning job I ever had was at Penril Data in Rockville, Maryland. Penril was one of the very first companies to make computer modems. We used to get the IC's stuffed end to end in long plastic tubes where they could be "spilled out" onto the test bench.
Imagine a Pez dispenser except without the cartoon character head on top, and this "dispenser" was about a yard long.

We typically culled about seven to ten percent of them and at that time that was considered to be a pretty good cull rate. This was 1973.

Transistors, capacitors, resistors all came rolled up in bandolier style packaging, almost like bulk nails for a nail gun but the microchips were in the "Pez" dispenser tubes. Some of the components, like certain resistors and capacitors, were "mil-spec" and guaranteed to be within very tight tolerances.

By the way, most of the assemblers were not only low skilled immigrants, most of them had no idea what they were even building.
A disc capacitor, being round and shaped like a little "cookie" was a "galleta".
Ponga la galleta en el hoyo marcado A..."Put the little cookie in the hole marked A", and "ponga la cuenta en el pequeño agujero marcado B, "put the little bead in the little hole marked B".
Or "Ponga la lata pequeña en el hoyo marcado con C, "put the little can in the hole marked C." Electrolytic capacitors were of course, little cans.

Capacitors were cookies and resistors were little striped beads. These little Mexican and Vietnamese ladies might as well have been doing beadwork.

When we started using CMOS chips, we had to ground their arms to eliminate static electricity, and some of the ladies thought they were being chained to their workstations, until we explained that they were to put the straps on and take them off themselves, and that they only needed to wear the strap when they were handling these specific parts.
Por la electricidad...

We had to pantomime the whole "rub your feet on the carpet and get a static electricity jolt" meme so that the ladies understood that this was about preventing the little spark from hurting these delicate parts.



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I am a product of the "all volunteer" army. I enlisted at the age of 23, after I had a college degree, and while I was in law school. I had always felt (still do) that every capable citizen owes a debt to their country to serve (in some capacity) for the betterment of the nation and their fellow citizens. I didn't object to military service, so that is what I chose (rather than VISTA, or Peace Corps, or Red Cross). I had no idea when I joined that it would end up being a career.

I spent half my time on Active Duty, and half as a Reservist. I started as a Private First Class, and retired as a Lieutenant Colonel. When I joined it had been an "all volunteer" army for ten years, so I served with Vietnam-era draftees and volunteers alike (two of my drill sergeants were Vietnam draftees who stayed on for a career). But, don't get the idea that it is, even now, "all volunteer". There are many reasons why people "volunteer". Some, out of patriotism or duty, some out of "family habit", some to escape gangs or poverty, some for the benefits (college, retirement, and including citizenship), some for a career based on merit, some to challenge themselves. In some cases "volunteering" is the easier call, or better option. None (that I knew) volunteered to be mercenaries.

Military people, and their families, detest war and see it as both a last resort and a necessary evil. That's why you see so many Generals and former Generals resisting military intervention. They know the cost and, many have experienced it first hand. Though I was never deployed to combat (even when I volunteered to), I lost friends and colleagues in violent deaths in conflicts. Because of this shared experience, military families and communities are close-knit. It's also why they are particularly patriotic and passionate - they seek meaning in that sacrifice.

To me these issues are not academic, they are personal. It is true that the draft "broadens" the community that experiences military service, but a) why inflict pain randomly? and b) why would we need a draft now? We have as many service members as we need, and they are really, really good because they are motivated. It is also true that the military community is becoming more isolated and suffers privately and separately. That plight needs to be better understood and shared, but not by inflicting it on others.

I'm getting a little wordy. More thoughts later.

jgw #312331 05/23/19 04:51 PM
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My father was a tanker in Korea. My one uncle drove ammo trucks one way, body bags the other in Vietnam. My Mom was a psych Nurse at the VA hospital which allowed me a good deal of exposure to the damaged veterans of three major seperate conflicts.

No war was ever waged on behalf of poor people. It has always been rich people arguing. Or as the soldiers in the south would say in the Civil War: "rich man's war, poor man's fight".

Now it seems to be how some people get rich.

Last edited by chunkstyle; 05/23/19 04:52 PM.
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