Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Current Topics
The long and winding road to Dumbass
by chunkstyle - 01/21/22 02:53 PM
Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century?
by pondering_it_all - 01/21/22 05:39 AM
National Commission to Investigate the January 6
by pondering_it_all - 01/21/22 01:35 AM
Interesting read - maybe
by Mellowicious - 01/21/22 01:24 AM
Winning
by perotista - 01/20/22 05:14 PM
Round Table Winter 2021
by pdx rick - 01/20/22 03:05 PM
Texas hostages
by Mellowicious - 01/20/22 03:57 AM
Gerrymandering
by perotista - 01/18/22 04:01 AM
Lindsey v. Mitch: Senate cage match
by logtroll - 01/15/22 05:11 AM
Don't look up
by jgw - 01/14/22 10:42 PM
Complexity Science
by Jeffery J. Haas - 01/12/22 06:34 PM
What's for dinner?
by pondering_it_all - 01/02/22 09:37 PM
RoundTable For Fall 2021
by Mellowicious - 01/02/22 04:21 AM
Divorce: American Style
by pdx rick - 12/31/21 01:56 AM
Gimme some of that good ol time religion
by pondering_it_all - 12/23/21 08:19 PM
F.D.A. Will Permanently Allow Abortion Pills by Mail
by Mellowicious - 12/22/21 09:03 PM
Joe Manchin thread
by perotista - 12/22/21 08:33 PM
Popular Topics(Views)
9,798,541 my own book page
4,862,819 We shall overcome
3,978,344 Campaign 2016
3,620,980 Trump's Trumpet
2,874,832 3 word story game
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 5 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
jgw #312425 06/02/19 12:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,827
Likes: 1
C
enthusiast
Online Content
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,827
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: jgw
Sorry, I was not clear. I am for just, intelligent and honest regulation. The problem with regulation is simple but there are two sides. The sides are regulation and no regulation. These come in two flavors - extreme. The answer is for both sides to sit down, agree there will be regulation and then both sides find common ground. THAT is regulation and not regulations decided by one side or the other. That is how its all designed.

Enough - apologies if you are offended.........


Lord knows you've stated many times how politics for you is between regulation and no regulation. You often mention how the 'left' is defined as politics that believe in sound regulation.
It's quite absurd and has no historical validity to say the 'left' is defined, more or less, by sound regulation.

The democratic party has been drifting further rightward for decades now by your fetish for capitulating to the demands of the right while punching left and alienating larger and larger portions of their base. You seem content with that but I'm not.

I'm not offended. Amused maybe, but not offended by your willful ignorance of leftism.

Last edited by chunkstyle; 06/02/19 12:17 PM.
jgw #312426 06/02/19 12:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,827
Likes: 1
C
enthusiast
Online Content
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,827
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: jgw


However, your determination to label every belief as this and that, right and wrong, etc. when referring to the left (witch, according to you doesn't exist) is an excellent example of how the Dems seem to consistently demonstrate that they can "lose spectacularly". Sometimes they win, sometimes they don't but they never seem to really get it and its frustrating.



What I do is offer a COUNTERARGUMENT to your cartoonish simplifications of left vs. right argument. Both parties have coalitions as they must in a rigid two party system. Both parties have disagreements over goals and priorities.
Republicans tend to be more dynamic and democratic, allowing for the voters to pick their representative that aligns with their ideology.
The Democrats are the opposite. Now more than ever they have become more insular, rigid and dogmatic. They will allow no challenges to their incumbent politicians and are hoping to fend off any and all primary challenges from progressive leftists preferring the more corporate aligned conservative.
The right gets enthusiasm from it's base by primary renewal. The Neolibs get a lock on the Democfratic party and have effectively made it a club.

That may be fine for some Eisenhower Republican retreads but not for a great many FDR New Dealists Democrats. I wish the party to be rid of these Hagfish but they are burrowed in deep and wont be removed without great effort.
Enjoy those tax enhanced savings accounts because that's all they have been able to muster as Democrats for the last 30 years or so. They are devoid of any meaningful ideas for addressing peoples very real material concerns. Quit the opposite really.

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,603
Likes: 83
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,603
Likes: 83
Quote:
that's all they have been able to muster as Democrats for the last 30 years or so


Except for gay marriage equality and the ACA, which matter very much to the people who need them. Looks like getting all the marijuana prisoners out of jail, as well. That has been a key strategy in voter suppression.

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,827
Likes: 1
C
enthusiast
Online Content
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,827
Likes: 1
It was democrats punching left while fawning to the right that brought us the ACA. It was democrats that killed the single payer option.
It was democrats that passed the crime bill that lead to our privatized incarceration state and swollen prison populations. The 'Tough on Crime' posturing such as Kamala Harris is familiar with.
It was a democratic socialist that said we could not have social justice without economic justice. I'm all for social justice. But as the democratic party has largely abandoned economic justice in favor of corporate support, I don't know how solid any gains will be. Witness the current right to abortion...
On the other hand, run on ACA, gay marriage, big tent jargon in 2020. I'll see you at the victory party.

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,652
Likes: 47
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,652
Likes: 47
I still credit Democrats for what they've accomplished. It's been a long uphill struggle for progressives of all stripes.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
jgw #312443 06/04/19 07:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,603
Likes: 83
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,603
Likes: 83
At this point, Democrats can run on save Medicare and Social Security, too. And against Trump's tax cut for the rich that added $1.38 to your paycheck. And you don't run on "See how great ACA is?" You run on "Republicans want you to die."

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,827
Likes: 1
C
enthusiast
Online Content
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,827
Likes: 1
Yeah PIA. That's about it from these centrist shills.

"Hey, were not as bad as Republican!"


See you at the party...

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,827
Likes: 1
C
enthusiast
Online Content
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,827
Likes: 1
I haven't seen all that much for most of my adult life.
I have seen the biggest income disparity in US history grow.
In the face of widespread economic violence, the commodification of most every basic necessities, a reckless disregard of the ecosystem, betrayal of labor unions, etc etc it would seem time for a course correction. For the managerial class, maybe not. They got them 401's to think about.

Whatever gains have been made by progressives it has not been with the help of the neoliberals.

I've really distracted from the topic at hand. My apologies.

Last edited by chunkstyle; 06/04/19 01:48 PM.
jgw #312448 06/04/19 08:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,827
Likes: 1
C
enthusiast
Online Content
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,827
Likes: 1
A timely interview in defense of third parties...


jgw #312468 06/06/19 05:55 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,435
Likes: 14
J
jgw Offline OP
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
J
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,435
Likes: 14
Yep, the Dems don't need any of the damned centrists. The simple fact is that there are more unaffiliated than party members, on either side. Most of those are in the center. They prefer not to support any extremism. Extremism, in this case is what the center would believe to be anything that goes too far. The trick, to get their vote, is to convince them that you are not representing an "extreme". Single Payer Healthcare is a good example because its to poorly sold to the public. The Republicans actually claim that one of the main things wrong with Single Payer is that there are no options! That is crazy, has nothing to do with single payer because Single Payer, in theory covers everything for everybody so "options" just don't exist because everybody is already covered. Single payer is also more economic, for the citizen, than the current for profit system ("For Profit Healthcare" is another term more descriptive than just "Healthcare", incidentally). Right now the nation is paying, on average, 50% more for their for profit healthcare than they would for a well designed single payer system. The problem is that the left/democratic fears the term "single payer" because the Republicans have demonized it. I don't think so - the left/demcrats have just done a seriously poor job of describing "Single Payer". Single payer is just another one of them things that gov can do better than for profit system. This includes Public Schools, Fire Departments, Police departments, etc. Some, like public schools, get blasted because, in come cases gov does a lousy job running the system. One of the main problems is that we measure against other systems, in other countries, that seem to be doing a better job. This means that our public school system, which provides something like 30% less instruction time than other systems that actually have no summer vacation, no Christmas vacation, no Easter vacation, teacher meetings, etc. Most government social efforts, like schools, police, firemen, etc are also the programs more likely to be cut in times of financial hardship.

Anyway, I guess this is another blather filled anti-democratic rant, sorry about that.................

Page 5 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 38 guests, and 1 robot.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
SuZQ2, KevFilthyANML, Risky, Gladys G. Jackson, Beach Baby
6,297 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums61
Topics17,275
Posts313,954
Members6,297
Most Online294
Dec 6th, 2017
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.27 Page Time: 0.013s Queries: 36 (0.005s) Memory: 3.0332 MB (Peak: 3.2530 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2022-01-21 18:15:17 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS