Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Current Topics
lamda variant
by pondering_it_all - 08/03/21 06:44 PM
Doug Thompson column for January 7
by Jeffery J. Haas - 08/03/21 01:18 AM
Winning
by perotista - 08/02/21 08:04 PM
no vaccine folks
by jgw - 08/02/21 06:46 PM
The Disintegration of Trumpism
by perotista - 08/02/21 05:32 PM
Government
by jgw - 08/01/21 06:47 PM
California Drought, Grapes of Wrath in Reverse?
by Greger - 07/30/21 02:19 PM
Summertime Roundtable
by logtroll - 07/30/21 12:56 PM
Lies and the Law
by Greger - 07/30/21 01:18 AM
Vaccines, over 65, youth
by Jeffery J. Haas - 07/29/21 11:04 AM
Arizona Audit/Recount 2020 election
by pondering_it_all - 07/27/21 11:54 PM
Roundtable for Spring 2021
by Jeffery J. Haas - 07/26/21 12:18 PM
cdc report
by pondering_it_all - 07/23/21 08:47 PM
Haiti - little problem
by Greger - 07/21/21 05:39 PM
Hyperinflation, debt, and the survival of nations
by pondering_it_all - 07/12/21 08:26 PM
Popular Topics(Views)
9,391,544 my own book page
4,593,794 We shall overcome
3,583,414 Campaign 2016
3,297,962 Trump's Trumpet
2,580,950 3 word story game
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 29 of 50 1 2 27 28 29 30 31 49 50
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,060
Likes: 8
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,060
Likes: 8
Any capitalist can see that the world would be far better off without all these people polluting it and using up our resources.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,655
member
Offline
member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,655
Quote:

Let’s put that to a test. As a Classical Liberal, do you believe that free markets will always produce the best results, without the need for regulations to correct for collateral damage? For example, I’m thinking of the Berkeley Pit in Butte, Montana. Did the mining company that created, and profited from, this environmental disaster ever pay to fix the problems it caused, or did it externalize the cost?

Thousands of snow geese die in toxic lake


There has not, never has been, and never will be a completely free market. Since there never has been a completely free market the situation you attempting to use to condemn free markets does not work. Then the idea of "externalizing" the cost of the environmental disaster you mentioned is BS. Every single company's income to pay all of the costs of doing business; whether they are payroll, research, advertising, taxes, buying raw materiel, or production, come from its customers. Since no business has a penny unless it gets it from their customers of course any and all costs are not "externalized." How can INcome possibly be EXternalized? It can't!


The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,075
Likes: 10
L
veteran
Offline
veteran
L
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,075
Likes: 10
I agree that there has never been a completely free market economy, and submit that there never can be. But that wasn't the topic.

I think that you do not want to acknowledge the concept of externalization. If so, then you obviously can't explain how Classical Liberalism deals with it. I think it deals with externalization of economic costs by refusing to acknowledge that it exists. Therefore, I can see how you might well be a Classical Liberal.

BTW, a Classical Liberal has virtually no relation to a Contemporary Liberal, in case anyone was wondering.


“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,655
member
Offline
member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,655
The "externalization" of economic costs is, as I said, a form of argumentation like deconstructionism. It is a form of obfuscation and irrelevant to the discussion. The costs of doing business have always been passed onto the consumers. They have because the consumer pays for everything a business does. No [i]income[/], no business. By talking about "externalizing" economic costs you are putting the cart before the horse. It is a way to sound intellectual but is actually being pretentious.


The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,075
Likes: 10
L
veteran
Offline
veteran
L
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,075
Likes: 10
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
The "externalization" of economic costs is, as I said, a form of argumentation like deconstructionism. It is a form of obfuscation and irrelevant to the discussion. The costs of doing business have always been passed onto the consumers. They have because the consumer pays for everything a business does. No [i]income[/], no business. By talking about "externalizing" economic costs you are putting the cart before the horse. It is a way to sound intellectual but is actually being pretentious.

So, who’s paying for the consequences of the Berkeley Pit?


“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,060
Likes: 8
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,060
Likes: 8
So lemme get this straight? Damage to the environment up to and including illness and deaths of workers and citizens are of absolutely no concern to you? That industrialists should be allowed to ravage the land and leave it a stinking toxic cesspool is perfectly fine as long as they are able to make a buck?

It'd be perfectly fine if I hopped on your table and sh*t on your dinner as long as I was making a profit?

And you wonder why capitalism has gotten such a bad rap lately.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,655
member
Offline
member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,655
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
The "externalization" of economic costs is, as I said, a form of argumentation like deconstructionism. It is a form of obfuscation and irrelevant to the discussion. The costs of doing business have always been passed onto the consumers. They have because the consumer pays for everything a business does. No income, no business. By talking about "externalizing" economic costs you are putting the cart before the horse. It is a way to sound intellectual but is actually being pretentious.

So, who’s paying for the consequences of the Berkeley Pit?

Whoever is buying the products of the company that owns the Berkeley Pit.


The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 15,760
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel
Online Happy
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 15,760
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: logtroll

So, who’s paying for the consequences of the Berkeley Pit?

Whoever is buying the products of the company that owns the Berkeley Pit.


By that logic we should all be paying fifteen to twenty dollars a gallon for 87 octane regular gas. Because: Externalization.


"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,655
member
Offline
member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,655
Originally Posted By: Greger
So lemme get this straight? Damage to the environment up to and including illness and deaths of workers and citizens are of absolutely no concern to you? That industrialists should be allowed to ravage the land and leave it a stinking toxic cesspool is perfectly fine as long as they are able to make a buck?

It'd be perfectly fine if I hopped on your table and sh*t on your dinner as long as I was making a profit?

And you wonder why capitalism has gotten such a bad rap lately.

Where in the HELL in my comment did I even come close to saying or even suggesting that I don't care about pollution and the medical problems it causes? No, you just assumed that I don't care. Since courtesy is important here I will not say all the nasty things that your completely inaccurate comment made think of. Someday Greger you might stop making ridiculous assumptions about capitalists. And someday the Vikings will win the Super Bowl two years in a row.


The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,075
Likes: 10
L
veteran
Offline
veteran
L
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,075
Likes: 10
The former owners of the Berkeley Pit abandoned it and left society with the costs of dealing with it. The Capitalists forced socialization of the externalized costs.

This isn’t rocket science, Hatrack.


“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller
Page 29 of 50 1 2 27 28 29 30 31 49 50

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 45 guests, and 0 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
KevFilthyANML, Risky, Gladys G. Jackson, Beach Baby, Superfly
6,296 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums61
Topics17,167
Posts308,834
Members6,296
Most Online294
Dec 6th, 2017
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.21 Page Time: 0.019s Queries: 36 (0.010s) Memory: 3.0454 MB (Peak: 3.2530 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2021-08-04 16:33:24 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS