Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Current Topics
Carbon Sequestration
by TatumAH - 10/18/21 05:53 PM
RoundTable For Fall 2021
by Greger - 10/18/21 05:16 PM
Gerrymandering
by perotista - 10/18/21 05:03 PM
Where did this car thing start?
by Greger - 10/18/21 04:39 PM
Winning
by Greger - 10/18/21 03:44 PM
A Question of Culture
by Mellowicious - 10/18/21 02:54 PM
A Musical Quiz
by Greger - 10/18/21 02:13 PM
What % of humanity is batsh!t crazy?
by pdx rick - 10/18/21 03:31 AM
Mobile sign-in issues
by pdx rick - 10/18/21 03:20 AM
Biden Administration Threads not in Current Topics
by Jeffery J. Haas - 10/18/21 03:10 AM
Divorce: American Style
by pdx rick - 10/17/21 01:58 PM
Arizona Audit/Recount 2020 election
by rporter314 - 10/16/21 05:23 PM
opening schools
by Greger - 10/12/21 12:33 PM
Lyrics
by pondering_it_all - 10/10/21 09:04 PM
Miss Navaho Nation
by logtroll - 10/10/21 02:53 PM
Section 230
by jgw - 10/08/21 08:09 PM
Constitutional Convention
by jgw - 10/06/21 05:41 PM
Popular Topics(Views)
9,574,711 my own book page
4,722,597 We shall overcome
3,766,737 Campaign 2016
3,447,511 Trump's Trumpet
2,712,623 3 word story game
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 47 of 50 1 2 45 46 47 48 49 50
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,402
Likes: 37
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,402
Likes: 37
The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist?

The answer is neither. Capitalism is an ideological myth. Socialism is an ideological myth. They do not exist, they are simply flawed intellectual abstractions. Pretending they exist is blocking rational discussion of what does exist and pragmatic ideas of how to best deal with the problems that we have created.

This article is a good example - it showcases young people who recognize an existential crisis and are looking for solutions but who feel compelled to try to make their solutions fit within the box of an ideological myth, which unnecessarily complicates and constrains their efforts. It’s funny, and sad, that free markets are a bedrock condition of their plan, yet a key strategy is using government incentives to shape the “free markets”.

It is a religious taboo to acknowledge that this strategy is not legitimate capitalism, nor is it sacred socialism. What is it? Does it even need a name?


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,598
Likes: 13
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,598
Likes: 13
Originally Posted By: jgw
The very word "socialist" has cost Bernie the presidency - just saying............

I know, I guess I just don't understand.........
As it turns out, being a socialist is less of a stigma than being a woman.

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
C
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Originally Posted By: jgw
The very word "socialist" has cost Bernie the presidency - just saying............

I know, I guess I just don't understand.........
As it turns out, being a socialist is less of a stigma than being a woman.


The smearing continues...

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,315
Likes: 8
J
jgw Offline
old hand
Offline
old hand
J
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,315
Likes: 8
I just cannot resist. I really don't understand that necessity to even say 'socialist'. Then, after that deny that same 'socialist' and then say nobody understands. Just make a simple distinction. There are social services and they are not socialism. Socialism is a political thing social is something done by society. I am amazed that somebody has yet to come up with something like "societyist" or somesuch. This entire blather about a word is simply amazing although also a bit odd, at least to me.

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,402
Likes: 37
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,402
Likes: 37
Originally Posted By: jgw
I just cannot resist. I really don't understand that necessity to even say 'socialist'. Then, after that deny that same 'socialist' and then say nobody understands. Just make a simple distinction. There are social services and they are not socialism. Socialism is a political thing social is something done by society. I am amazed that somebody has yet to come up with something like "societyist" or somesuch. This entire blather about a word is simply amazing although also a bit odd, at least to me.

Do you say ‘capitalist’? Do you say ‘conservative’? Why do we use words at all, if we can’t agree on their definitions?


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,332
Likes: 36
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,332
Likes: 36
Quote:
There are social services and they are not socialism. Socialism is a political thing social is something done by society. I am amazed that somebody has yet to come up with something like "societyist" or somesuch.


Social Democracy is what it's called. Except in America where we hate social services. Here we must link it to something everyone hates so no one will want healthcare, fair wages, and education.

So far it's working and you(JGW) will vote for the guy who wants to send jobs overseas, keep wages low and healthcare unattainable. The guy who wants to make abortion illegal, keep college debt high, and the eternal wars going on forever. The guy who has voted on several occasions to reduce Social Security and cut Medicare. They guy who thinks $7.25 is a fair wage and can't remember which state he's in or which office he's running for.

The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist?

It is neither. America has no future.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 15,891
Likes: 22
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 15,891
Likes: 22
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
There are social services and they are not socialism. Socialism is a political thing social is something done by society. I am amazed that somebody has yet to come up with something like "societyist" or somesuch.


Social Democracy is what it's called. Except in America where we hate social services. Here we must link it to something everyone hates so no one will want healthcare, fair wages, and education.

So far it's working and you(JGW) will vote for the guy who wants to send jobs overseas, keep wages low and healthcare unattainable. The guy who wants to make abortion illegal, keep college debt high, and the eternal wars going on forever. The guy who has voted on several occasions to reduce Social Security and cut Medicare. They guy who thinks $7.25 is a fair wage and can't remember which state he's in or which office he's running for.

The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist?

It is neither. America has no future.


Twenty years from now, when most people from my generation are long dead, Trump will be remembered for what he did to capitalism, AND democracy.
And I guarantee you that the same fearmongering and paranoia will be attached to capitalism thanks to Trump that is currently being attached to socialism thanks to Castro.


"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,315
Likes: 8
J
jgw Offline
old hand
Offline
old hand
J
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,315
Likes: 8
You may be right about Trump. On the other hand he may get covid-19 and die due to having another rally. In that case he will go down as the perfect example of an elected jackass who ignored science, facts, and covid-19 - got his just rewards, and set a new low for the American Voting Public.

Just a thought............

Last edited by jgw; 03/11/20 07:03 PM.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,332
Likes: 36
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,332
Likes: 36
Or Biden may die of it before the general election...Does Bernie then become the nominee? Or do we just default to four more years of Trump since he'll be running against a dead man...


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,332
Likes: 36
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,332
Likes: 36
Quote:
Twenty years from now, when most people from my generation are long dead, Trump will be remembered for what he did to capitalism, AND democracy.
And I guarantee you that the same fearmongering and paranoia will be attached to capitalism thanks to Trump that is currently being attached to socialism thanks to Castro.


I wouldn't count on that, we might not even end the Cuban Embargo by then. How is Reagan remembered? You may have forgotten that Americans have very short memories.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
Page 47 of 50 1 2 45 46 47 48 49 50

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 34 guests, and 0 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
SuZQ2, KevFilthyANML, Risky, Gladys G. Jackson, Beach Baby
6,297 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums61
Topics17,216
Posts311,201
Members6,297
Most Online294
Dec 6th, 2017
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.24 Page Time: 0.021s Queries: 36 (0.011s) Memory: 3.0407 MB (Peak: 3.2529 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2021-10-18 18:01:37 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS