Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Current Topics
What's for dinner?
by TatumAH - 10/28/21 03:22 PM
What % of humanity is batsh!t crazy?
by Greger - 10/28/21 02:43 PM
Retailers
by Greger - 10/28/21 02:31 PM
Gerrymandering
by Greger - 10/28/21 02:03 PM
Trump screws up
by logtroll - 10/28/21 01:17 PM
REWARD: Vote Fraud
by pondering_it_all - 10/28/21 09:03 AM
RoundTable For Fall 2021
by pondering_it_all - 10/28/21 08:48 AM
In production movie Rust
by pondering_it_all - 10/28/21 07:53 AM
National Commission to Investigate the January 6
by rporter314 - 10/27/21 03:44 PM
Lyrics
by Mellowicious - 10/27/21 03:16 AM
Winning
by perotista - 10/25/21 11:58 PM
Why and How can they?
by logtroll - 10/25/21 11:13 PM
A Fungus Amungus
by TatumAH - 10/25/21 03:38 PM
Joe Manchin thread
by Greger - 10/25/21 02:08 PM
Le Shrooms
by logtroll - 10/25/21 12:07 AM
U.S. Companies Bet Shoppers Will Keep Paying Higher Prices
by pondering_it_all - 10/24/21 08:35 PM
Bureaucracy
by jgw - 10/24/21 08:33 PM
The GOP, goop, and political Pop-tarts
by pdx rick - 10/23/21 03:12 PM
Carbon Sequestration
by pondering_it_all - 10/23/21 07:28 AM
Popular Topics(Views)
9,601,163 my own book page
4,739,546 We shall overcome
3,790,950 Campaign 2016
3,467,112 Trump's Trumpet
2,730,417 3 word story game
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 194 of 212 1 2 192 193 194 195 196 211 212
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,328
Likes: 9
J
jgw Offline
old hand
Offline
old hand
J
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,328
Likes: 9
I remember it well. Watched the Republicans mark it up and add a bunch of stuff.

It won't be too much longer to find out. First they have to lose, then Trump needs to be dealt with, and THEN we will find out.

The thing that gives me some hope is that straight forward paper ballots are available if anybody challenges and they don't get mistakenly destroyed (I put nothing past the Republicans this time around as Trump has infected them all!)

Last edited by jgw; 10/24/20 06:11 PM.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,403
Likes: 56
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,403
Likes: 56
Quote:
Are you supporting health insurance companies over universal healthcare, as Biden has declared in tonightís debates? If so, why?


I'm actually in favor of British-style National Health. Not MediCare For All, because my Medicare drug coverage copays actually costs me about $6000 per year, while my Blue Cross had a much lower copay cost. The problem is that Medicare drug costs have a weird donut hole and then Catastrophic Care level coverage has the patient paying 5% of the drug retail price. Combine that with drug companies charging any price they like with a monopoly on a new drug for many years, and voila: Drugs seniors can't afford.

BUT, (and this is a very important BUT), Democrats barely got ACA made into law over 10 years ago, and Republicans have been doing everything they can think up to kill it ever since. So I believe that in the real world, ACA was the best we could do then. Even including a public option stopped passage until it was removed. That's just how real politics works. You can't take your opponents in Congress out back and shoot them. People in their states or districts vote them in and they get to vote on bills. Want to change things to be better? Change voter's hearts.

Democrats might vote for National Health, if they get enough voter support. Republicans never will.

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,598
Likes: 13
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,598
Likes: 13
In 2016, Trump gained a quarter of his electoral votes from just 191,000 votes in the closest four states. Trump won Florida, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan by less than 1.3%. 538 has Biden winning all four, three of them handily.

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
C
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
Real clear politics has Biden at the same spot as Clinton in the top battleground states. 3.8%

Top Battlegrounds 2020 vs. 2016

Last edited by chunkstyle; 10/23/20 11:10 PM.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
C
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
I find it darkly hilarious that it's this close and polling had Sanders performing better than the DNC anointed candidates of both 2016 and 2020 against Trump.

Awww waddya gunna do. Better than the threat of a New Dealist realignment I suppose.

Last edited by chunkstyle; 10/23/20 11:13 PM.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
C
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
Are you supporting health insurance companies over universal healthcare, as Biden has declared in tonightís debates? If so, why?


I'm actually in favor of British-style National Health. Not MediCare For All, because my Medicare drug coverage copays actually costs me about $6000 per year, while my Blue Cross had a much lower copay cost. The problem is that Medicare drug costs have a weird donut hole and then Catastrophic Care level coverage has the patient paying 5% of the drug retail price. Combine that with drug companies charging any price they like with a monopoly on a new drug for many years, and voila: Drugs seniors can't afford.

BUT, (and this is a very important BUT), Democrats barely got ACA made into law over 10 years ago, and Republicans have been doing everything they can think up to kill it ever since. So I believe that in the real world, ACA was the best we could do then. Even including a public option stopped passage until it was removed. That's just how real politics works. You can't take your opponents in Congress out back and shoot them. People in their states or districts vote them in and they get to vote on bills. Want to change things to be better? Change voter's hearts.

Democrats might vote for National Health, if they get enough voter support. Republicans never will.


Your still not clued up to the Sanders 'Medicare for all' plan he had put out during the campaign? Hadn't read the proposal?

I thought we had this discussion 50 pages back? I even provided a link to it at the time for anyone to read it so's you'd understand it's not the same thing as what you have.

I think you made the same incorrect comparison then as now..

Anyway. Who cares, right? Ain't happening now either way this elections going. Missed the shot and there's only been a few since Roosevelt. We'll continue to talk. People will go broke, die or both under our current Dunkin Donuts managed system.


Last edited by chunkstyle; 10/23/20 11:31 PM.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,580
Likes: 9
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,580
Likes: 9
I hear Brunhilde clearing her throat with a "do re mi" .... but I haven't heard the "Hojotoho"!


ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,598
Likes: 13
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,598
Likes: 13
RCP is crap. I keep pointing this out. They have no quality control.

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,403
Likes: 56
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,403
Likes: 56
I actually voted for Sanders in the California Primary, but he lost. Doesn't matter what Sanders proposed, because he did not get enough primary votes to win. You have to win the primary and then the election to actually make changes.

Your ideas might be so brilliant that the winners adopt them, but they get the credit then. Ideas are a dime a dozen.

I am happy getting what's possible. I might want the impossible, but by definition that's not going to happen.

As I said before, you have to change voter's hearts. Make them into better people who care about others, the future, and The Republic. Essentially civic virtue.

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
C
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
Ok. Sounds like you didnít actually read the proposal and still conflate Medicare for allí with current Medicare.

You donít have to Ďchange hearts and mindsí the public is already there. Acting like itís not is so much reducing expectations that liberals politicians do. Iíve stated before, popular will of voters has had nearly no effect on legislation at the federal level. Thereís has been good research on this fact so arguing outside of this reality with someone is like arguing with a Qanon conspiracist.

Oddly, Qanon does get the gist right from time to time. They were much more ahead on the wealthy pedophilia going on. Details were pretty incorrect but they called the crime ring right. But thatís a different thread.

No, thereís nothing unique to America and adoption of progressive policies on healthcare. Both factions have been skilled at lowering peopleís expectations while enriching the only class of voters they care about. Donor class obviously.

How bout that final debate. Epic, watching thoroughly corrupt liars going at each otherís corruption. You gotta love the lack of any quality material to be had in either factions candidate.



Last edited by chunkstyle; 10/24/20 01:09 PM.
Page 194 of 212 1 2 192 193 194 195 196 211 212

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 42 guests, and 0 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
SuZQ2, KevFilthyANML, Risky, Gladys G. Jackson, Beach Baby
6,297 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums61
Topics17,228
Posts311,632
Members6,297
Most Online294
Dec 6th, 2017
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.25 Page Time: 0.044s Queries: 37 (0.036s) Memory: 3.0415 MB (Peak: 3.2529 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2021-10-28 16:52:56 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS