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Carpal Tunnel
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You're asking ME to say good things about Biden?

The only thing good about Biden is that he's not Donald Trump. Right now, that's enough for me.

I'm not much of a history buff so I'll judge Biden by his actions as president. I don't expect a lot. But I expect a lot worse if Trump is re-elected.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
Greger #329872 11/01/20 11:59 PM
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My ballot gave me the option to vote for Trump or Biden. I voted for Biden.

Hmm


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
logtroll #329876 11/02/20 12:36 AM
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In truth, there were some other candidates on the ballot, but I had never heard of any of them. Pretty sure they didnt have any chance of winning.

Did I do a bad thing by casting my vote for Biden?


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
logtroll #329878 11/02/20 01:55 AM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Biden is not a 'good thing' in any way, shape, or form. He's a place holder and Harris is the anointed heiress to The Resolute desk. The Party played their hand well and got what they wanted. But the left has grown stronger as well! We just voted for a $15 minimum wage in Florida, and for open primaries(state only).

Biden is where the pendulum pauses, that moment in time before it begins the inevitable swing to the left!


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Greger #329885 11/02/20 02:43 PM
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Im not as optimistic as you are Gregor.

Without pressure from below, outside of the performative vote ritual, most of the time representatives will sniff the air for a dollar or succumb to brand discipline.

So where are those pressures? Without class consciousness and politics, your left with little more than culture wars and virtue signaling to build coalitions with. Something the left has been engaged with since the sixties, IMO.

Sanders was a good attempt at class politics but it may take a depression to help people understand that liberals and conservatives are a club, as Carlin pointed out, and most aint in it.

Brand loyalty is a powerful market tool. It sells immense tonnage of junk every year. It sells politics as well. To think that a couple of hundred thousand dollars worth of Rubles could sway an election against a billion dollars worth of propaganda advertising, costing Dems the 2016 election, is absurd, but a good example of the strength of consumer brand politics over class.

I just dont see that dynamic changing anytime soon. I would like to be proven wrong but when have we been as atomized as we are in todays society?

Last edited by chunkstyle; 11/02/20 02:45 PM.
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Quote:
Im not as optimistic as you are, Greger.


You can look at the gray clouds or you can search for silver linings.


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Greger #329898 11/02/20 10:02 PM
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There will always be more sh*t than there will be wishes come true.

More gray cloud than silver lining. So it's a lot easier to see.

I believe there is a definite path to social democracy in the United States. Our constitution was practically written for it, younger generations are all for it, and Boomers are fading fast. McConnell, for instance, will likely not finish his next term.

Yessir, I see a path through the wilderness where you just see a tangle.


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jgw #329906 11/03/20 06:35 AM
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McTurtle may not even live until his next term, even if he wins. That Black Death look is pretty damned scary. Almost makes me believe in God or at least Karma.

jgw #329907 11/03/20 12:48 PM
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Back to JGWs original point of victim blaming public policy outcomes as it relates to voting. From the Institute for New Economic Thinking:

The idea that public opinion powers at least the broad direction of public policy in formally democratic countries like the United States has been an article of faith in both political science and public economics for generations.[i] Especially during the Cold War, direct tests of this hypothesis by social scientists were rare indeed, questioning it was often considered un-American. But not long after the U.S. government dramatically ushered in a single payer insurance system for banks but not the rest of the population in 2008, long simmering doubts began to crystallize...
... Their unsettling conclusion startled many: Not only do ordinary citizens not have uniquely substantial power over policy decisions; they have little or no independent influence on policy at all.[ii] The pair reaffirmed Gilens assessment in an earlier study that knowing what high income Americans think matters a lot: If opinion shifts among those at the 90th percentile of income and above, changes in policy in the direction they want become far more likely.

Affluent Authoritarianism: McGuire and Delahunts New Evidence on Public Opinion and Policy

Pretty much confirms what the works of others, Picketty, Graeber, etc.. have shown to be the case. Voting is mostly performative for 90% of voters.
This is a frat house fight that ordinary Americans have little interest in the outcome in a real sense so its up to the media to whip up the hicks, or manufacture consent as Chomsky puts it.
So no, voting has little effect on policy outcomes for the vast majority of Americans JGW. Unless you have any proof that says otherwise your just blaming people for their situation instead of the institutions that are engaged in doing the screwing.
But then dealing with the current reality is not on the agenda for much of the country anyway. The fact that we live in an illiberal democracy doesnt enter into these types of conversations for those doing the victim blaming.



Last edited by chunkstyle; 11/03/20 01:05 PM.
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