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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Loggie: Nobody but you and I know what tensegrity structures are!

It's a good metaphor, if you know what it is, right?



“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller
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Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Not sure what your after frankly. Why don’t you simply get to your point instead of all this innovation thinking?

My point is that problems are something to be solved, not defeated.


“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller
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Is this an experts way of getting to your observation: ‘ My point is that problems are something to be solved, not defeated’?

No thanks. This took to long to get to your point let alone it’s utility.




Last edited by chunkstyle; 01/10/21 03:38 AM.
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Originally Posted By: logtroll
Random actions, no long term plan, don't care about the details... got it!


Still waiting on you to identify a problem and give a business plan to address it.
Waiting.....

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Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Random actions, no long term plan, don't care about the details... got it!


Still waiting on you to identify a problem and give a business plan to address it.
Waiting.....

Coalition building is the key. Finding a zone of agreement.


“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller
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Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Is this an experts way of getting to your observation: ‘ My point is that problems are something to be solved, not defeated’?

No thanks. This took to long to get to your point let alone it’s utility.

I’m getting the impression that you don’t want to discuss issues, you just want to vent.

Venting is a popular thing in these frustrating times when we, as individuals, have so little control over what happens.

Maybe that’s why there seems to be so little difference between the Dems and Reeps, and why providing for the general welfare is an uphill climb.

It’s far harder to create upward change than it is to sabotage it.

Last edited by logtroll; 01/10/21 12:15 PM.

“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller
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Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Not sure what your after frankly. Why don’t you simply get to your point instead of all this innovation thinking?

My point is that problems are something to be solved, not defeated.

I agree, problems need to be solved. But we have had some problems with us in what seems like forever. Why, they are too useful as a campaign tool to fire up a party's base than to be solved. If they're solved, they ceased to be a campaign issue.

Now most problems will take more or less a bipartisan approach toward them. Usually, one party can't solve the problem on its own. When one party tries the lone approach, they's usually kickback that that party gets blamed for what ever went wrong, ala 1994 and 2010. No approach or solution legislative wise will be perfect, what's not perfect gets laid at the feet of the lone party which tried to solve the problem.

History shows this over and over.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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I agree.

On the premise that that parties are the same, I'd say the arguments for that are based on the idea that sameness is the problem, but I think it's a really just a symptom. If they were truly the same, then how is there so much angry polarization?

Your thoughts about [unethical] people using that as a campaign tool are revealing. In addition to that, certain media business models are built around monetizing the polarization, and they have been very successful - in terms of making money. They have also been a key part of the very destructive ideology of "noble insurrection".

If there's a binary choice that folks can make about politics, it's between fighting and fixing. Fixing is a long, hard slog that may never really get anywhere (winning is not really a goal). But fighting is excellent entertainment and more fitting with human nature (or so it appears). With fighting you can win! And then lose... just ask don't ask Trump, who has always been a winner - even if he has to lie about it.

:doh:


“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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Happy to discuss. Not happy to be patronized. Try talking directly about a subject and stop flattering yourself and I’ll be happy to engage.

For the record, I’ve seen this type of stuff in community orgs. A self declared ‘expert’ using fancy jargon that takes forever to get to a point.

If I’m venting, it’s directed at your idea that you need to use guile to get to your point. Just get to your point.

Its exhausting with the high hat.

The most I can get is out of this meandering thread from you is the problem is there’s problems and their not being addressed in a ‘correct’ way.

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Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Happy to discuss. Not happy to be patronized. Try talking directly about a subject and stop flattering yourself and I’ll be happy to engage.

For the record, I’ve seen this type of stuff in community orgs. A self declared ‘expert’ using fancy jargon that takes forever to get to a point.

If I’m venting, it’s directed at your idea that you need to use guile to get to your point. Just get to your point.

Its exhausting with the high hat.

The most I can get is out of this meandering thread from you is the problem is there’s problems and their not being addressed in a ‘correct’ way.

Coalition building is a good topic, in fact you recommended it. But apparently you haven't had good experiences with it.

How do you go about it?


“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller
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