Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Current Topics
Gerrymandering
by pdx rick - 09/27/21 12:00 AM
RoundTable For Fall 2021
by logtroll - 09/26/21 11:58 PM
Critters, animal/vegetable, and their place
by olyve - 09/26/21 11:03 PM
Vaccine Refusers Don’t Get to Dictate Terms Anymore
by pondering_it_all - 09/26/21 10:22 PM
Winning
by pdx rick - 09/26/21 10:04 PM
A Musical Quiz
by olyve - 09/26/21 06:58 PM
Did I hear that right?
by Mellowicious - 09/26/21 05:34 PM
What % of humanity is batsh!t crazy?
by perotista - 09/26/21 12:28 AM
Medications that might help against SARS-CoV-2
by pondering_it_all - 09/25/21 09:47 PM
Summertime Roundtable
by pondering_it_all - 09/24/21 10:42 PM
New Texas law
by Greger - 09/22/21 10:12 PM
Afghanistan
by pdx rick - 09/20/21 07:59 PM
25,000 Employees sue Disneyland for better pay
by Greger - 09/20/21 04:46 PM
Masks, after vaxx, after delta
by pondering_it_all - 09/18/21 11:54 PM
The Lawlessness is the Point
by pondering_it_all - 09/18/21 11:32 PM
CRISIS ALERT!!
by logtroll - 09/13/21 01:10 PM
How did Common Sense Die?
by logtroll - 09/13/21 12:45 PM
World Travel via GeoGuessr
by pdx rick - 09/12/21 09:35 PM
Popular Topics(Views)
9,522,893 my own book page
4,687,046 We shall overcome
3,707,355 Campaign 2016
3,399,358 Trump's Trumpet
2,676,690 3 word story game
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 7 of 10 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 10
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
C
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
Theres plenty of orgs out there. There plenty to plug into and volunteer with. Then comes orientation, meeting scheduled, action plans and usually a follow up. Most follow the Roberts rules. From my experience, they often get hidebound by careerists.

Now compare this to a labor strike. A problem is identified. Theres broad agreement. Negotiation takes place. If the problem doesnt get resolved the stakes get escalated until their is resolution. Im from a labor family, btw. Characterizing s strike as you did is revelatory as well as insulting, intentioned or not.

Im in favor of strikes. They are horizontal and Democratic. Nelson was talking about cross organization coordinating which I agree with. Labor issues are connected to gender, environmental and income issues. Thats where there needs solidarity or coalition building if you prefer. Thats where the work is.

There has been thousands of labor strikes over the last few years. A serious uptick in labor activity. Lets not kid ourselves here. Ive said it before and will say it again. Its what doesnt get discussed that says as much about the the orientation of this community as what is said. This forum has a more rightward tilt that youd expect from a mostly PMC class here. Theres no solidarity in a meritocracy only an atomized class consciousness based on economic and credential status, IMO. How you get this class to throw in with labor has been a constant struggle. They dont see their interest allied with labor. The policies that have come from this class proves the point. The danger now is the professional class simply accommodates itsrlf to fascism. Plenty of historical and current examples of this.

Thats why Im curious what you think are the problems and hear what your ideas are for solutions.

Ive given you mine, lets hear yours.

Last edited by chunkstyle; 01/10/21 04:06 PM.
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,262
Likes: 28
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,262
Likes: 28
I am generally in support of labor unions, though I've had several bad experiences with them. Based on my experience, I don't accept that whatever they do is good, or necessarily solve problems in the long-term. We have deeper systemic cultural flaws that underlie management/labor conflicts, so temporary balance of power adjustments are not really solutions.

I have also had poor experiences with having employees, unrelated to unions. That is a serious problem that I would like to find a solution for, but unfortunately the problem seems to be rooted in human nature.

In my opinion, you don't appear to have much experience with coalition-building related to "fixing", so I will drop that topic of discussion.


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
C
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
Ive been in the community spaces, From library meeting rooms to street protest. Ive had a sit down, fortified with signatures of constituents, with my state senator to door knocking. I dont need your judgement as to what Ive done or its effectivenes.


Yeah, not every Union is perfect. What is. I look at Is the entire record and draw my conclusions. Those would be, on the whole, they got a lot done for the better. For a time...

You created that everything they do is good framing, BTW. Why?

Yeah culture. Just as important is economic and bad ideas that come from those arrangements.

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
C
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
Right now theres gunfire all around me and nothings in season for the cal.

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,262
Likes: 28
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,262
Likes: 28


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
C
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
Maybe you could try being direct for a change. Reduced the chance of misunderstanding.


What were the problems you identified that led you to engage with organizing Logs?

Im happy to learn what you know.

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
C
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
Really, anything youd like to share to learn from.

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,262
Likes: 28
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,262
Likes: 28
No, thanks.


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
C
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,675
So your just fronting off? You have no experience with organizing?

Oh well. Call me surprised.

Do you have a hate has no home here or trust science signs?

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,262
Likes: 28
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,262
Likes: 28
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
So your just fronting off? You have no experience with organizing?

Oh well. Call me surprised.

Do you have a hate has no home here or trust science signs?

That's why. You want to fight, I want to fix. We got no communication happening.


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
Page 7 of 10 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 10

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 41 guests, and 0 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
SuZQ2, KevFilthyANML, Risky, Gladys G. Jackson, Beach Baby
6,297 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums61
Topics17,196
Posts310,272
Members6,297
Most Online294
Dec 6th, 2017
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.23 Page Time: 0.018s Queries: 36 (0.005s) Memory: 3.0324 MB (Peak: 3.2529 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2021-09-27 00:12:27 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS