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Thereís plenty of orgs out there. There plenty to plug into and volunteer with. Then comes orientation, meeting scheduled, action plans and usually a follow up. Most follow the Roberts rules. From my experience, they often get hidebound by careerists.

Now compare this to a labor strike. A problem is identified. Thereís broad agreement. Negotiation takes place. If the problem doesnít get resolved the stakes get escalated until their is resolution. Iím from a labor family, btw. Characterizing s strike as you did is revelatory as well as insulting, intentioned or not.

Iím in favor of strikes. They are horizontal and Democratic. Nelson was talking about cross organization coordinating which I agree with. Labor issues are connected to gender, environmental and income issues. Thatís where there needs solidarity or coalition building if you prefer. Thatís where the work is.

There has been thousands of labor strikes over the last few years. A serious uptick in labor activity. Letís not kid ourselves here. Iíve said it before and will say it again. Itís what doesnít get discussed that says as much about the the orientation of this community as what is said. This forum has a more rightward tilt that youíd expect from a mostly PMC class here. Thereís no solidarity in a meritocracy only an atomized class consciousness based on economic and credential status, IMO. How you get this class to throw in with labor has been a constant struggle. They donít see their interest allied with labor. The policies that have come from this class proves the point. The danger now is the professional class simply accommodates itsrlf to fascism. Plenty of historical and current examples of this.

Thatís why Iím curious what you think are the problems and hear what your ideas are for solutions.

Iíve given you mine, lets hear yours.

Last edited by chunkstyle; 01/10/21 04:06 PM.
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I am generally in support of labor unions, though I've had several bad experiences with them. Based on my experience, I don't accept that whatever they do is good, or necessarily solve problems in the long-term. We have deeper systemic cultural flaws that underlie management/labor conflicts, so temporary balance of power adjustments are not really solutions.

I have also had poor experiences with having employees, unrelated to unions. That is a serious problem that I would like to find a solution for, but unfortunately the problem seems to be rooted in human nature.

In my opinion, you don't appear to have much experience with coalition-building related to "fixing", so I will drop that topic of discussion.


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
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Iíve been in the community spaces, From library meeting rooms to street protest. Iíve had a sit down, fortified with signatures of constituents, with my state senator to door knocking. I donít need your judgement as to what Iíve done or itís effectivenes.


Yeah, not every Union is perfect. What is. I look at Is the entire record and draw my conclusions. Those would be, on the whole, they got a lot done for the better. For a time...

You created that Ďeverything they do is good framingí, BTW. Why?

Yeah culture. Just as important is economic and bad ideas that come from those arrangements.

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Right now thereís gunfire all around me and nothings in season for the cal.

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You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Maybe you could try being direct for a change. Reduced the chance of misunderstanding.


What were the problems you identified that led you to engage with organizing Logs?

Iím happy to learn what you know.

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Really, anything youíd like to share to learn from.

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No, thanks.


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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So your just fronting off? You have no experience with organizing?

Oh well. Call me surprised.

Do you have a Ďhate has no home hereí or Ďtrust scienceí signs?

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Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
So your just fronting off? You have no experience with organizing?

Oh well. Call me surprised.

Do you have a Ďhate has no home hereí or Ďtrust scienceí signs?

That's why. You want to fight, I want to fix. We got no communication happening.


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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