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jgw #333030 03/07/21 10:25 PM
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If they don't eat their own then they have no high ground to complain about republican shenanigans.

Should be fairly simple for old white powerful men to stop harassing women for sex.


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pdx rick #333031 03/08/21 01:58 AM
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The filibuster hasn’t been used to encourage debate or compromise in a very long time. If ever. Is there even one example of the filibuster being used and leading to a bipartisan, compromise bill? I very much doubt it and can think of none myself. The filibuster has always been used as a way for the minority to foil the majority by sending a bill to its death.

The whole thing has become an absurdity, if it ever was anything else: A device to require a super-majority to end a debate that is not happening. Sort of like praying to a deity that doesn’t exist to get the deity to stop doing something it has no control over.


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pdx rick #333039 03/08/21 02:13 PM
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I suppose looking at it from a strictly partisan view point, trying to gain as much short term political gain as possible, then it doesn't matter.

How did the first use of the nuclear option, setting the precedence for it use play out in the long term for Reid and company? Kavanaugh, Barrett.

ending the filibuster will probably have the same long term effects. Democrats will pass legislation, then when the GOP regains power, they'll repeal all that legislation and pass their own. Then the democrats come back into power and repeal all Republican legislation and pass their own. The country being jerked from far left to far right to far left again.

It doesn't matter, what will happen will happen. Now if we had leaders like Daschle and Lott, Mitchell and Dole, Baker and Byrd, there would be no talk at all about ending the filibuster. It's all about the intransigent of our current political leaders. But this seems what the people want, or do they? Perhaps it only what both major party's want. Americans or a majority want compromise and the party's working together whenever possible. Keep in mind I said, whenever possible.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/220265/americans-favor-compromise-things-done-washington.aspx

There's a reason for the ever growing number of independents as both major parties shrink. Independents have grown from 30% in 2006 up to 41% as of 12 Feb 2021. Democrats have dropped from 37% to 32% of the electorate while Republican have fallen from 31% down to 26%. I find it interesting we had wave elections in 2006, 2010 and 2018. There was one in 1994 and then you have to go all the way back to 1948 for the next one.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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Quote:
How did the first use of the nuclear option, setting the precedence for it use play out in the long term for Reid and company? Kavanaugh, Barrett.

Nothing really wrong with Kavanaugh or Barret. Unless you're a hyper-partisan.

Quote:
The country being jerked from far left to far right to far left again.


Wrongo, mate! The country gets jerked back and forth within the narrow confines of a centrist worldview, never moving right or left. Removing the filibuster will allow both parties more freedom to implement their agendas. Voters will determine later whether these agendas are acceptable or not. When one party over-reaches they will be removed from power...witness the 2020 election...when an autocratic ruler was defeated and sent packing. Despite Republicans coming out in record numbers to support him.

Ideally, once government is given the freedom to govern rather than being hobbled by an archaic and inefficient "rule", then voters will choose which direction they want to go.


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Actually, when one side tries to remove the legislation of the other side it rarely goes well. That was proven with the ACA which they tried and tried to get rid of and failed. The same will happen with much of what the Dems want. The Trick will be to force an actual filibuster, let it play out and then pass the whatever.

I believe the reason for the parties losing members is because each party has tended to simply go too far! I think everybody is sick and tired of the too far, on either side. It was much better when the sides were able to sit down and pass legislation both sides could live with. I think that Biden is trying for that again. I also think that's the way its supposed to work!

pdx rick #333051 03/08/21 07:45 PM
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The more I think about it, the more I believe the filibuster is unconstitutional. According to that document, senate decisions are all decided by simple majorities with the VP breaking ties. The only supermajorities in it are about impeachment conviction and restoring the right to hold office after insurrection. Seems to me any law that declares the senate vote should work differently, should be voided. And the filibuster is not even based on a law! It's just a "gentlemen's agreement". Since "gentlemen" seem to be quite absent from the congress anymore, it's time to jettison it.

It doesn't matter if Democrats keep it out of fear Republicans will retaliate later if they hold the majority: Because Republicans are willing to do anything legal (or even illegal) if it benefits them. Some time in the future, if they need to dump it to pass a bill, they will in a second. McConnell refusing to give Garland a hearing proved that.

jgw #333052 03/08/21 07:47 PM
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Quote:
the reason for the parties losing members is because each party has tended to simply go too far!


Nawp. It's because neither party has gone far enough. Neither party has accomplished anything, no meaningful legislation has been passed.
We're still talking about the ACA and it was passed 12 years ago.

Voters have lost faith in either party delivering equitable legislation. Why side with one or the other when neither delivers the goods.



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The more I think about it, the more I believe the filibuster is unconstitutional.


I like the way you think.

But like most laws it's not so much unconstitutional as extra-constitutional.


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Greger #333074 03/09/21 06:13 PM
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On reflection we may both be right. I think that the Republicans have gone too far with their politics and you believe that not enough legislation as been passed. Now we will see as Biden seems to be trying, very hard, not to go too far politically and actually pass some needed legislation. If he fails I think that the other side is going to get blamed on both areas.

If the Dems do it right I think they just might actually really gain the congress and do good works.

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