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jgw #334272 05/22/21 05:21 PM
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Us socialists don't really care if the Democrats hate that word. They can eat sh*t and die twice as far as I'm concerned.

I don't rightly care if they hate the Defund the Police slogan either.

And say what you will...reparations would be the right thing to do.

No, the left wing will not keep it's mouth shut to satisfy the neoliberal wing.


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jgw #334275 05/22/21 07:05 PM
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LOL, it not satisfying the neoliberal wing or even the right wing. It's making it possible to win elections. Lose elections and nothing you want can ever be accomplished. Win elections, at least some can be. I'm constantly surprised that those on either side of the divide can't understand this or won't.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #334277 05/22/21 08:43 PM
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Winning elections is not my first consideration.

I'm out to change the world. To make it a better place.

I caucus with the Democrats, but I am no Democrat and I don't care if they win or lose. But they are the defacto "socialist" party in our two party system and with some work and maybe a little therapy the Democrats will eventually come out of the closet and admit they are socialists.

The more we use the word socialist and demand social justice and equality the more people will forget the cold war and begin to believe that they deserve social justice and equality. Don't look at Soviet Russia or Venezuela as examples, Look at Switzerland and Sweden and a dozen more where the government serves the people and not multinational corporations.

Socialism is the future or else there is no future. One percent of the American population owns about 90% of the nation's wealth. We blew through late stage capitalism in the 90s...what we're seeing now is end stage capitalism.

The part where we make the planet unlivable for anything but rats and cockroaches.


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jgw #334278 05/22/21 11:42 PM
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All I can say is good luck. I really don't think much change is possible if the other party is in charge, winning elections. Now I'm different, I tend to look at the long haul. Get what is possible today, put what isn't on hold until it become possible at sometime in the future.

The old saying that politics is the art of the possible comes to mind. Winning elections, a Biden win gives you a chance to move forward, perhaps little steps forward, but forward nonetheless. A Biden loss, a Trump win would give you no chance at all, perhaps even moving backwards a few steps. No chance for advancement.

Yes, rats and cockroaches will still be here long after humans ceased to exist.

Last edited by perotista; 05/23/21 02:02 AM.

It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #334280 05/23/21 04:17 PM
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All I can say is good luck. I really don't think much change is possible if the other party is in charge, winning elections.

Since neither party is really acceptable, nor willing to make any changes, then "the other party" is always in charge.

Democrats are masters at incrementalism...small steps forward without actually changing anything. They give lip service to all things progressive but are as hidebound as Republicans when it comes to actual change.

As far as my personal goals, the Trump victory in 2016 was a major win. No politician has done so much damage the the Republican Party in my lifetime. Before him was George Bush...the previous worst president in history. Reagan and Nixon were pretty bad too.

My plan is going swimmingly! I will not live to see it all come together but the US will eventually embrace a more socialist approach. All this headbanging between the parties is mostly entertainment, real changes are taking place at the societal level, at the cultural level. They won't really begin to show up in the polls yet but I expect certain anomalies to occur that you will probably spot over the next few years. I hope we both live long enough to see this partisan gridlock improve.


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jgw #334281 05/23/21 04:56 PM
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That's why I'm a swing voter. I hate partisan gridlock, I hate straight party line voting. I hate seeing our elected leaders always putting their party way above the nation. I want to see legislation, proposals brought forth for our elected officials to base their votes on the merits of each. Not to automatically oppose anything and everything the other party does or proposes.

I want to see our elected officials putting America first, not their political party. To govern over the nation as America as a whole and not just for their party's base. Perhaps I'm a dreamer, perhaps I live in a fantasy world.

Perhaps I'm kind of a majoritarian. if a majority of Americans want us to move left, I'm fine with that. If they want us to move right, I'm also fine with that. What I want is government that governs and moves with the wishes and wants of the majority of Americans. If that means moving toward socialism, so be it.

I want our elected leaders to realize this country is made up of Republicans, Democrats, independents and a bunch of folks who just don't give an owl's hoot about politics. That this country isn't made up of just one party's base.

As long as we have party firsters in charge of both major parties, partisan gridlock is here to stay. Compromise should mean compromise, not giving the other party 100% of what they want and you get nothing.

I'm about as far away from being an ideologue as one can be and still be a political junkie. I think Georgia's two senators should vote the way most Georgian's want and wish them to, the same for my representative, the way the people in his district would like him too. The same for my state representatives and senators, country commissioners etc. Not voting the way one's party dictates.

Our elected leaders should represent the people who elected them, not their party. But I always been kind of anti party, a loner, one who moves by the beat of his own drum. Voting for who I'm comfortable with and against those I'm not.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
Greger #334283 05/23/21 07:26 PM
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Reparations, if publicly claimed, by the Dems, will lose them election. It is interesting, however. The first slave owner, in the United States was a black man. After the civil war those, now ex-slaves, were given an option to return to Africa. Many did. We dumped them in Liberia. What was interesting is that they proceded to enslave the Liberians in the American way. So, are we also going to force today's Liberians to pay reparations to those descendants of those enslaved?

I am not for giving reparations to folks because of how they were treated over 100 years ago. I am not denying, however, that they have also been screwed over in modern times and that is waaay different. They are, basically, screwed over right now! Now, THAT is something that needs to be righted! There are signs that might be happening right now. Its also interesting that those standing in the way are the Republicans. Somebody should also ask why there are blacks that support Republicans who are working against their own best interest.

One of the terrifying things, about American voters, is that they often don't have the capacity to act in their own best interest (white, black, elderly, whatever). Trump, for instance, went after Social Security and Medicare! There was NO secret and he said it right out loud. From what I see of Trump rallies a good number of supporters rely on those two to live yet they support somebody who wants to get rid of them!

I guess its just one of them things that will remain a social mystery of note.

jgw #334285 05/23/21 08:15 PM
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A lot depends on the party they identify with. Regardless of race, age, sex etc. those 55-60% who associate or affiliate with the two major parties will vote for their party's candidates roughly 92%. The R and or the D over ride the issues and perhaps leave those voting against their own interests. At least that is what history shows.

Then you have the rest, 40% or so, up and down, give and take, independents who pay very little to or any attention to politics except when an election nears. This has always made me wonder just how many Americans actually vote issues? There's no hard figures on that. How many just adopt the stance on the issues of the party they belong to at the time, if they switch parties, they switch their stances.

This doesn't give you an explanation as to why, just how belonging to one or the other party always seems to determine their vote way before hand regardless of the issues and stances.

Yes, in my opinion reparations is a losing issue. As is the slogan Defund the police whether or not that is what is meant by those who holler it at the top of their lungs. Only 18% of all Americans support reparations, 18% support defunding the police. Myself, I'm against it, not 7 or 8 generations after the fact. Now if we were giving reparations to those who had been slaves or the first generation, I'd be all in favor. Not 156 years after the fact. Only 30% of democrats support reparations while 49% of blacks do, 10% of whites.

What's interesting about the slogan, defund the police, just 18% support that. But 43% support taking funds away from the police and redirecting those funds to social services. Now that not what the slogan says, keeping mute on that by the democrats could very well hurt them come election time as it hurt them in the house elections in 2020. Most Americans like and trust their local police and don't want them abolished as the slogan defund the police implies leaving Americans to take Defund the Police as meaning exactly what it says.

Perhaps we should take slavery into the context of the times it was prevalent. Prior to 1800 slavery was legal in at least 80% of the countries in the world in some form. By 1865 that percentage had dropped to a bit over half of all countries in the world.What caught my eye is Arab and African countries didn't start to abolish slavery until after 1900 for the most part. It wasn't until 2003 that Niger made slavery a crime, Mauritania in 2007 becoming the last two countries in the world to finely end slavery.

Last edited by perotista; 05/23/21 10:32 PM.

It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
jgw #334287 05/24/21 06:02 PM
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First , the Saudis freed their slaves in 1962! Slavery, in the middle east, continues pretty much everywhere. I am told that India too has slavery which they deny loudly. Every now and then an Indian comes to New York for the United Nations and gets caught with a slave or two too. In other words, slavery is alive and well!

I have always thought that independents pay more attention to politics than those who claim a party but are not active in said party. I have nothing to base that on but it makes a kind of sense to me. I also know a lot of folks who claim a party and have absolutely no idea where they stand on anything. Republicans are an excellent example of that one. Some are 'Christians" who belong to Christ's Party and a vast variety of conservatives who are, basically, politically ignorant. The Republican party itself has no set of planks and nobody really knows, from one day to the next what it all means.

The Dems seem to be a party with members who are not Republican and, if they are not involved with the party itself, just vote Democratic because they are not Republicans.

I know, my thoughts are simplistic but that's what I see. People who are not party members seem to me to be more aware than party claiments. I have also seen a lot of numbers that claim that there are more independents than party members. I have no idea if that's true or not but that would make sense to me.

jgw #334288 05/24/21 07:20 PM
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You'll likely see the number of independents continuing to rise as partisan squabbles interfere with government operation and as voters tire of the shenanigans.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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