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The tower of babble being what it is, and all...


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Angela Davis is responible for the slogan and when she said it she meant de fund the f*cking police. The population would be better off without them.

It's the slogan of an anarchist. Someone who believes that we could rule ourselves better without rulers at all and that we could police ourselves better without police at all.

But slogans are not policy. They are hyperbole meant to shock people into action. Apparently it worked, you centrists have been figuring out the best ways to reform the police and changes are already underway.....

The slogan cost democrats nothing in the election and may have saved some lives already. That's why we have activists, slogans, and demonstrations, because y'all would sit on your thumbs forever unless someone demands action.


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You could be right, I never checked into where the slogan began. I'll disagree on the cost, the numbers, the political pundits, even democratic strategist and after action folks clearly show and admit the slogan cost the Democrats 13 house seats. Now the cost of losing 13 house seats may be well worth it with the reforms implemented. I suppose that is in the eyes of the beholder. But election result wise, I'd have to say no. Reform wise, perhaps it was.

The slogan probably cost Biden some votes. What it showed was the GOP was able to tag the Democrats with that slogan and convince a certain amount of voters that was exactly what the Democrats wanted to do, to do away with the police. The polls show this clearly.

Now losing 13 house seats is something the Democrats could afford. Not something they wanted since every poll was showing the Democrats would gain seats, some estimating their gain at 20 plus. Big difference from a 20 plus gain and a 13 seat loss.

What changed, congressional elections are more local, folks like their local police and don't want to see them done away with. Nationally, the exit polls show that defund the police added 3 points to Trump's popular vote total. Again something the Democrats and Biden could afford.

What I never understood, still don't is why the Democrats let the Republicans tag them and convince folks that doing away with the police is what the democrats want. The only thing I can come up with, nothing to back it up, just a shot in the dark, is Biden and the democrats didn't want to do anything to make their most loyal voting block, blacks mad at them. Especially since it was them who lead the charge with Defund the police.

I may be completely all wet there. But trying to come up with reasons is something I do. As it was, 12% of blacks voted for Trump, the most any Republican candidate since Ford back in 1976 received. Ford received 15% of the black vote. So perhaps, some blacks didn't want the police defunded and done away with. History is interesting in this and the after effects. But I won't get into that. This is getting much longer than I intended.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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Most voters never even heard that slogan.

Those that did saw it on signs at protests and demonstrations(on teevee}.

None at all heard it as Democratic campaign rhetoric.

Every single candidate denied that they supported the slogan.

And yet it cost them 13 seats?

We might as well give up and hand it all to the Republicans, reelect Trump and shut down the Democratic Party. Because republican's get to define everything that Dems stand for anyway.


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All I can give you is what the numbers say. The republicans made defund the police a campaign issue especially at the local level. As I stated earlier, it didn't stick to Biden, but it did to other Democrats at the congressional level. The circumstances, the situation and who's running has to be right for it to stick. If those candidates didn't come out and tell the voters that they are against defunding the police, but all in favor of reforming the police, who's fault is that?

Nationally, only 18% support the Defund the police movement, 58% oppose. So if one is a political strategist, trying to tie your political opponent to that movement is a no brainier.

Now when asked about redirecting funds to social services from the police, 43% supported that. If defund actually means redirecting and reforming, you can see the huge difference. 43 vs.18. Still in the minority, but redirect some funding and reforming the police has about two and one half times more support than defunding.

Words, phrases and slogans have meaning. You take your average independent, non-partisan, non-affiliated voter who doesn't pay much if any attention to politics, they'll tend to take words, phrases and slogans to mean what they say.

These folks are more interested if the Braves or Lakers won last night than whether or not the 1-6 has a commission. They're too busy with their regular lives to give politics much thought until an election nears. They have no skin in the political game since they aren't members of either major party. They're standbyer's. What was it, 49% of independents don't care if the commission happens or not. They're much more interested in the NBA playoffs or the next episode of the Walking Dead or Twilight or NCIS or American Idol.

The bottom line is one has to be specific with these folks or they'll take whatever is said as actually being fact. Yet, it is these types of people who decide most elections.

Last edited by perotista; 06/06/21 04:57 PM.

It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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Reams of specific information was published by Democrats in answer to Republican claims.

Only Republican claims mattered.

Like I said...if that's how it works we might as well hand it over to them now, re-instate Trump and go full fascist.

People like you and me, who have publicly come out against Trump, we gonna have to go to Washington, break some windows and smear sh*t on the walls to prove we are patriots or we'll be deported.


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LOL, I got you. Now here's a report I just received about the 2020 election and the ability of the GOP to tar the Democrats. What's needs to be done in the future, especially for 2022.

Democratic Report Raises 2022 Alarms on Messaging and Voter Outreach

https://www.yahoo.com/news/democratic-report-raises-2022-alarms-153751948.html

It's important to recognize what went wrong and correct it. The Republicans aren't recognizing anything or doing any research into why they lost in 2020. They're too scard of what they might find. from the article.

There has been no comparable self-review on the Republican side after the party’s setbacks last year, mainly because GOP leaders have no appetite for a debate about Trump’s impact.

The Republican Party faces serious political obstacles arising from Trump’s unpopularity, the growing liberalism of young voters and the country’s growing diversity. Many of the party’s policies are unpopular, including cutting social welfare and retirement security programs and keeping taxes low for the wealthy and big corporations.

If the democrats make a few corrections, 2022 should be a good year for them. Especially if the GOP sits on their butt too afraid to admit that Trump is their problem and the reason they're losing. I always thought the Democrats were blind to the realities of politics and winning elections. But it seems more and more the democrats at least seem willing to learn, the GOP, no way. They don't want to admit they're tied to the tail of a loser.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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Now here is more on what I was talking about or trying to get across to no avail. Remember last Nov when Trump received 32% of the Hispanic vote nationally, but 41% in Texas. Now you have this.

GOP Sweeps in Texas Races Signal Growing Hispanic Support for the Party

https://www.nationalreview.com/2021...-growing-hispanic-support-for-the-party/

The border state area last Nov, Texas Trump 41% of Hispanic, New Mexico, Trump 39% Arizona Trump 37%. Compared to a state far away from the border, New York where Trump received 22% of the Hispanic vote.

This from a border city that is 85% Hispanic where a Republican won. From the article.

But it was the victory of Javier Villalobos in the overwhelmingly Democratic Rio Grande Valley bordering Mexico that shook political observers.


Villalobos, a former chairman of the Hidalgo County Republican Party, defeated Democrat Veronica Vega Whitacre, a fellow McAllen city council member, to become mayor. He campaigned as a conservative and said he wanted to cut water and sewage fees. He called for compassion for undocumented migrants but said the safety of local citizens had to be the first concern.

and

Whitacre’s loss was only the latest sign for Democrats that the Rio Grande Valley is slipping away from them. Biden won the region by 15 points last November, a far cry from Hillary Clinton’s 39-point margin in 2016. At the same time, Congressman Vicente Gonzalez won reelection by only 51 percent to 48 percent over Republican Monica De La Cruz-Hernandez in a district Democrats always carry.

“Democrats have a big problem in Texas,” Rio Grande Valley congressman Filemon Vela told the Texas Tribune in January, shortly after he became vice chairman of the Democratic National Committee. “For the first time in generations, or maybe ever, we lost . . . South Texas counties with significant Hispanic populations,” he said. “And we are going to have to . . . wrap our arms around exactly why that happened. It may be a difficult issue to reconcile.”

Which brings me back to the question, do the democrats really want to know why they lost in several areas, border areas where whites make up only 10-40% of the population? Then if they find out why, will the Democrats be willing to make changes to rectify it?


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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The reason Hispanics voted for Villalobos is obvious: He ran against a woman named Whitacre. Hispanics have a deep cultural prejudice against women running things. Especially an older non-Hispanic White lady. If Democrats want to win the Hispanic vote, they should run Hispanic men. In South Texas mostly they do.


We're flying electric helicopters on Mars yet you can't turn on your clothes dryer in Texas. That's because scientists are in charge of Mars, and Republicans are in charge of Texas.
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Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
The reason Hispanics voted for Villalobos is obvious: He ran against a woman named Whitacre. Hispanics have a deep cultural prejudice against women running things. Especially an older non-Hispanic White lady. If Democrats want to win the Hispanic vote, they should run Hispanic men. In South Texas mostly they do.
That right there does trump party affiliation in that demographic, fer sure.


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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