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jgw #334376 05/31/21 08:36 PM
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Thank you Greger. I totally agree, if the election were held today, Democrats would prevail big time. But as you point out, it isn't. This is one reason I refuse to get involved in predicting the house. We don't know if Biden and company will peeve off independents or keep them smiling as they are now. We also can't see what unforeseen events or happenings will take place in the next 18 months or so.

As for jgw, I think you're correct. There are Republicans who can't stand Trump, but know if they cross him, out they go. Self preservation takes hold. They know they'll be defeated in the GOP primary by Trumpers. But as things stand now, those Trumpers most likely will lose in the general election depending on the district and state they running in. Solid or safe GOP districts, it makes no difference who the candidates are. It does in swing or tossup districts and states, even lean districts and states.

Right now I wouldn't want to be in the GOP shoes when it comes to election chances for 2022. But as Greger pointed out, this is today, not Nov 2022. Who know, Biden and company might do something to make independents angry at them ALA 1994 and 2010. Then Trump or no Trump, it doesn't matter. But as that guy who jumped off a 20 story building was heard to say around the 10th floor, so far, so good.

Last edited by perotista; 06/01/21 12:11 AM.

It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
jgw #334387 06/01/21 06:21 PM
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My concern is not Biden so much as the rank and file of the Dems. The Dems seem to have absolutely no sense when it comes to running their mouths and making clever things to put on signs. "Defund the police" is one, for instance. That is, I think, why they lost all those seats in the house last year. They just couldn't control their mouths. Democrats, like Republicans, spend a LOT of time talking to each other and are pretty clueless of the other side, other than knowing they hate them. Republicans have specific messages which all Republicans stick to, its call discipline. Democrats don't. I am reminded of the wars we have had here over "Socialist". That word costs votes but that won't slow down any of the public mouths of the house. I think that they think they are right and everybody understands because they only talk to them that do. Unfortunately, for the Dems the independents don't, and the independents are the ones that can put them over the top. I am not convinced that the Dems simply don't understand 'winning' and 'losing' and I sure as hell don't trust them to watch their mouths.

So, its not so much about Biden as it is the Dems with the big mouths and thoughtless exercise of same.

jgw #334391 06/01/21 09:36 PM
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The Republicans have a Trump problem, especially with independents that they refuse to acknowledge. Yeah, the democrats have a mouth problem with slogans that don't mean what they want to say. I would say you're correct on the slogan, "Defund The Police," costing the democrats 13 house seats. So both parties today have their problems.

But I'd say the democrats problem is dwarfed by the GOP and Trump. At least today.

Trump has reportedly been telling people he'll be 'reinstated' by August

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-reportedly-telling-people-hell-133110019.html

The man is deranged. Now if I were a democrat, I'd want his followers to just keep following him as that would tend, in my opinion, to keep the independents in the Democratic column.

It certainly wouldn't hurt if the Democrats to put a sock in AOC, Omar, Tlaib etc mouths as they say such outrageous things that tend to drive indies away. It is also very hard to convince independents that those three aren't the spokespersons for the democrats as they get plenty of air time and independents don't pay much attention to daily politics if any at all.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #334392 06/02/21 12:41 AM
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Ah yes...outrageous lefties are going to ruin it for the Democrats.

Everything they are saying needs to be said.

There are also a lot of lefties out there in the independent column, voters who aren't inclined to vote for either right wing party.

AOC, Tlaib, and the rest of the squad were elected by voters in their districts. If they need to shut up then their constituents will tell them in the next primary.

Personally I think all sides need to be heard and nobody needs to keep their mouths shut.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
jgw #334396 06/02/21 12:18 PM
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That's fine Greger, but I'm looking from the point of view of attracting voters to win elections. Especially independent voters or turning them off and have them vote for the other party.

Primaries are political party affairs between very like voters and don't reflect America as a whole. Democratic Primaries represent approximately 33% of the American electorate as of 18 May 2021. GOP primaries, less than a third,29% to use Gallup's 18 May numbers. So we have those non-affiliated, less to non-partisans who's thinking for the most part are somewhere in-between the two major parties ideology. Although we do have some way to the right of the GOP and way to the left of the democrats.

Once the primaries are over, the battle then becomes to attract and get independents to vote for your candidates. Does a slogan like Defund the police help that cause, no. I'm looking at this in the mode of how do I get independents to vote for my party's candidates. It does no good if my parties candidates just get my parties base votes and loses independents. Then that let's the other party in power and you sitting on the sidelines.

Independents aren't all that political, their attention span is short. They tend to take whatever they hear or see on TV and run with it. Be it fact or fiction or somewhere in-between. If your an idealist, you want all these folks hollering out your ideology at the top of their lungs. If you're a political strategist, you want it toned down in an effort to attract those who really don't have a set ideology or political views to vote for your party's candidates.

Trump lost because he couldn't keep his fingers off twitter, the democrats lost 13 house seats due to the slogan defund the police.

But how one looks at these thing I suppose depends on one's goal. Winning elections or getting your point of view heard. They can be the same or they can be completely opposite.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #334397 06/02/21 04:52 PM
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That's fine Greger, but I'm looking from the point of view of attracting voters to win elections.

You seem to be extremely concerned with Democrats losing elections.
I'm not a democrat and don't care whether they win or lose.

They will lose roughly 50% of all elections.

What YOU are looking for is getting people who think like you to the polls.

Centrists.

Not my goal at all.

I don't care if all the centrists get scared over to the republican side. Then republicans would be in complete control....

What is it that happens EVERY TIME republicans take control....?

Disaster. Then your precious centrists scurry back to the democrats until they attempt to do what they were elected to do...

My goal is to get the lefties off the couch, to infiltrate the democratic party and to make it a true workers party.

A socialist party, if you will.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
perotista #334399 06/02/21 05:16 PM
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the Republicans have more problems than just Trump. That have embraced lying which, in turn makes THEM liars. That's just for starters. They have also abandoned the reality most of us dwell in. It just goes on and on. The problem is couching all of this in terms that don't offend. Whoever is in charge of Dem messaging needs help, I think. If they do it right, often and loud they can win, especially if they can bring themselves to exercise a bit of old fashioned discipline.

I would be happy to hear a Democratic candidate say, right out loud to an opponent: "You have knowingly embraced a big lie which, in turn, makes you a damned liar! By denying an election, which has been tested to exhaustion and accepted according to the Constitution of the United States, means you have a serious mental problem in relation to reality which is not good for any of us and you need help. In addition to that your rejection of the Constitution also makes you a damned traitor!" (I know, not gonna happen, but it should!)

We will see, eventually what happens.

jgw #334446 06/07/21 02:46 AM
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I find Trump's Facebook sentence modification quite reassuring: They said he is banned for two years, including time served, but then if he breaks any of their rules he will be banned for life. Trump will break their rules in his first post! He can't help himself.


We're flying electric helicopters on Mars yet you can't turn on your clothes dryer in Texas. That's because scientists are in charge of Mars, and Republicans are in charge of Texas.
jgw #334453 06/07/21 04:46 PM
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Yep and its really odd. The man works really hard at failing and just keep on going from one loss to another whining all the way. What's really strange is that his true believers have to know/see this and continue to support one of the biggest failure I have ever seen.

Its actually more than odd. Anybody who connects with him seems to get infected by Trumpism as well! The man is a danger, pure and simple. I am amazed somebody hasn't suggested that the man be tucked someplace safe so he can't hurt himself or others!

jgw #334456 06/08/21 12:06 AM
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In all sorts of other occupations, such a string of crazy behavior would result in a long stay in rehab or visit to a facility for recuperation. I don't suppose we have any facilities that can rehab somebody like Trump and turn him into a normal human being. We used to lock such people up in mental hospitals and force feed them "reality pills" or zap their brains a bit, until they came back to live in the real world. But we closed all the state mental hospitals down, and now the locos are living on the street or at Mar-A-Lago.


We're flying electric helicopters on Mars yet you can't turn on your clothes dryer in Texas. That's because scientists are in charge of Mars, and Republicans are in charge of Texas.
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