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jgw #334497 06/12/21 09:36 PM
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Hahahahaha!!! Nuh-uhh! LOL

Money is just a tool to facilitate trade. Everybody has forgotten that.

I had a neighbor once, a salesman. He used to say to me, in a heavy Colombian accent, "You know why we work, Logtroll? We work to make money to buy sings!"


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
jgw #334499 06/13/21 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jgw
economy IS money!

A curious, but unrecognized fact, is that the world’s currency is primarily debt, with money coming in far behind.

World debt is around $381 trillion, while world money supply is $37 trillion.

Does this fact have any effect on what your understanding of an “economy” is?


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
logtroll #334500 06/13/21 12:23 AM
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Maybe debt can be defined as money that hasn’t been created yet?


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
logtroll #334509 06/13/21 03:08 PM
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Gold that hasn't been mined...

Fish, not yet caught...?

Taxes not yet collected...

a handful of gimme and a mouthful of much obliged...?


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
Greger #334511 06/13/21 03:10 PM
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... work not yet done?

... inflation not yet inflated?


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
jgw #334515 06/13/21 08:48 PM
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You seem to be dedicated to whining about 'money'. Money is no less an act of faith than religion and, these days money seems to be the faith of the majority. You may not like it or even believe in it and it makes absolutely no difference. I am not sure what you battle really is about but I wish you luck. All you have to do is to find a replacement. Oh, wait a minute! There is one! Ebucks! Wonderful deal! Freely admitted faith money! Its even better than ours as ours is, basically, backed by the economy which, in turn, is money which means it continues to work. I actually bought some, a very long time ago, and then lost them when I switched a computer and its now in smoke or I would be rich! (based on absolutely NOTHING!)

I remember when we dumped the gold standard. The main thing, then, was there was simply not enough gold, in the entire world, to cover our money! I could get into the weeds in this one but I won't because its a bit insane. Our dollars, for instance, actually represent a worldwide faith in America (whether you like that or not). the UK once had that position but got replaced. I could go into the why's of it all but why bother. Its mind bending just as religion is. Oh, remember, "Faith can move mountains!"

Its probably best, when dealing with money or religion, to just let it lay because you can't win!

jgw #334518 06/13/21 10:30 PM
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Whining? Can't win? I think we might be having another Tower of Babble incident again.

I thought I was trying to open discussion around a difficult and poorly understood concept.

Or maybe it's too uncomfortable to admit that when it comes to money we are all delusional, therefore better just keep mum?


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
logtroll #334521 06/14/21 02:44 PM
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Yes, Loggy, perhaps you are one of those "democrats" who need to keep their mouths shut.

Money is a means of exchange and nothing more.

It doesn't become capital until one acquires enough of it that they no longer need what they have.

Some form of exploitation is always responsible for the acquired wealth of the capitalists.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
Greger #334550 06/16/21 12:30 AM
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If money makes the world go 'round, could debt make it go in the reverse direction and turn back time, like Superman did once?



You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
logtroll #334551 06/16/21 01:47 PM
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Unfortunately, no. I tried it once and debt led to financial devastation and bankruptcy. My world stopped spinning altogether but my fortunes nor the world's rotation did not reverse.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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