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I agree, Biden wasn't Trump and that was enough. At least for independents, swing voters. What you're missing is those independent voters who voted their dislike for 3rd party candidate mainly because they didn't want either major party candidate to win. Voted against both major party candidates for a third party candidate to show their disdain for both.

Nothing will top 2016. Trump won independents 46-42 over Hillary Clinton with 12% of independents voting against both major party candidates. In other words you had 54% of independents voting against Trump, 58% voting against Clinton using your idea or method.

2020 you had 5% of independents vote against both Biden and Trump, so 59% of all swing voters voted against Trump while 46% of independents voted against Biden.

Last edited by perotista; 06/16/21 09:36 PM.

It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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Perhaps it's something as simple as some folks not liking Trump, but still adhered to the republican philosophy, hence their vote for Biden, then voting GOP down ballot.

That can't be it, because essentially there IS no Republican philosophy any more. What? They trust Putin over US Intelligence agencies? Think the US should forego democracy? Even if they were traditional Republicans, the Trump Party candidates they voted for are not traditional Republicans any more!

They just have not figured that out yet. Their votes were mostly habit and momentum.


We're flying electric helicopters on Mars yet you can't turn on your clothes dryer in Texas. That's because scientists are in charge of Mars, and Republicans are in charge of Texas.
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Whatever was the reason for their vote, their ticket splitting, voting for Biden, then voting Republican down ballot. It sure stood out.

Trump was low man on the totem as far as getting votes percentage wise. Republican congressional candidates, Republican senate candidates, Republican governor candidates, Republican state legislature candidates, Republican anything besides president received a higher percentage of the vote than Trump.

Sometimes the difference was very stark. Trump received 46.9% of the total vote. Republican senate candidates 50.4%, Republican governors 52.4%

The dislike of Trump certainly drove the presidential election, but down ballot the GOP picked up 13 house seats, 1 governor, 2 state legislatures and 152 state legislature seats all the while Trump was losing by 7 million plus votes.

There seems to be a disconnect between the president elections and the down ballot elections. Different forces driving them which I haven't figured out. Habit, momentum, perhaps. It could be the dislike of Trump over rode their dislike of Democratic policies at the presidential level, but not down ballot. The distrust and dislike of the Democrats was too much for them to vote for Democratic candidates if the Democratic candidate wasn't named Trump. Who knows? Your explanation and thoughts are as good as mine.

The only thing I found from pundits and both parties to explain it was the Defund the Police slogan which both parties accepted. for the democrats down ballot loses. Is it true? Independent political analysts and both parties strategists accept it. The polls seem to back that up.

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/542108-poll-finds-only-18-percent-support-defund-the-police

https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/exit-polls/president/national-results


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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They just have not figured that out yet. Their votes were mostly habit and momentum.

Once Trump is gone from the picture Republicans are going to have to sell actual policy to voters. Since they have no actual policy beyond Trump, it isn't going to go well.


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Even I didn't support "defund the police".

You might as well say it was the socializms...

Nobody supports that either.

Keeps coming back to this and I keep telling you that it was right wing propaganda, not actual democratic support of these things.

It was lies.

Republican lies cost seats for the Democrats, NOT Democratic support of extremist slogans.


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I could be wrong, but for a lie to stick, there has to be some appearance of truth to it. You had some democratic mayors jump on the defund bandwagon. At least 13 cities with democratic mayors have cut funds for the police. That number has risen to over 20.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemima...heir-police-departments/?sh=70582d2929e3

With that in the news, even if the Democratic Party itself, if most Democrats didn't support defund, it's easy to see and understand why those who pay little attention if any at all to politics would come to believe its the whole Democratic Party that wants to defund the police.

When it comes to these coach potatoes, at least political wise, they'll base their votes on their own perspective of the situation. Do mayors and their cuts represent any congress critters and their stances? when these swing voters hear that New York City.
Washington, D.C.,Baltimore, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Atlanta, Minneapolis etc..all with democratic mayors have cut funding for the police, it isn't much a leap to think electing a democrat to congress would doom their own local police force.

It's not like these swing voters will research anything, they'll hear something on TV and run with it. They're not political, but they don't want their local police tampered with.

In our modern era of politics, politics is a propaganda game. Propaganda doesn't have to be the absolute truth, it just has to be a bit truthful and a whole bunch of lies to stick. It has to be believable. With 20 democratic mayors cutting funding to their police, it was believable. At least to swing voters.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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Last time you told me it was congress people screaming about defunding the police...but you couldn't find any examples.

Now you're claiming 20 Democratic Mayors actually began defunding their police departments...

List of cities please...?

I watch politics carefully, and I never really saw much mention of defunding the police. Neither the truth about it nor the lies...

But then I don't watch FOX News. Where independents go to get the TRUTH.


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https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemima...heir-police-departments/?sh=3e1d038b29e3

https://cdllife.com/2020/these-8-ci...partments-and-these-4-are-increasing-it/

There's a bunch more. But you're missing the point. Defund or doing away with the police departments doesn't have to be true. It just has to leave the perspective that is what is happening in the voters mind.

When someone, swing voters, hear something, they're not going to do any research for the most part. If it sounds true, if it sounds plausible, they'll run with it.

I've been studying independents, swing voters, the non-affiliated very closely since 1992 working hard for Perot. We knew we wouldn't get many Republicans or democrats to vote for him. So we had to get the majority of independents at that time. We had to draft a message that appealed to them, that addressed their wants, their wishes and yes, their fears.

Even dropping out for a spell, Perot drew 30% of the independents vote, 17% of the Republican vote and 13% of the democratic voters. Total 19% of the electorate.

There are certain words that catch a voters attention. Use those words in the right way, in a way that makes your candidate look good while making the other candidates look like they're for something that isn't popular, you get ahead in the political and election game. The word or slogan doesn't have to be 100% true. But true enough for those who don't research into the full statement, context of the statement, etc. it is believable to them.

I'm dealing with PERSPECTIVES of the voters, swing voters in particular. Not facts, not absolute truth, but perspectives that if molded right win elections. This you don't understand. You understand defund the police didn't mean what it says. I do too. But that is irrelevant to what this mass of non-affiliated, swing voters, independents, coach potatoes, those who don't follow politics on a daily basis, probably not even on a weekly or monthly basis. Just when an election nears, they'll go with what sound plausible, possible, not what is.

So an election strategist will see a poll that says only 19% of all Americans support defund the police, 60% oppose it. They'll see another that says 50% support making reforms to the way police do their business, 45% don't. It's a no brainier to use defund the police to tar your opponent instead of reform. In that instant Democratic candidates came out in support of the slogan defund the police, meaning reform, but saying defund. Words mean things, to a lot of these coach potato voters, defund means defund, reform means reform. It's quite simple. Especially when one knows there'll be no research done, just taking what is said and run with it.

I don't think you understand how that works. You know defund the police didn't mean doing away with the police. But you're a political junkie. Independents aren't, they're more interested if the Braves won last night, who won American Idol, taking care of family, making ends meet etc. they're even thinking about politics. But these people vote and if you can mold their perspectives, you can get their vote.

As a political strategist trying to win elections, I'm not worried about you, I'm not going to try to make the base of either party change their minds and vote for my candidate. That is a total waste of time. But I'm going after the swing voter, the couch potato, the non-affiliated, those who don't pay much if any attention to politics at all. I can convince them that defund means defund, I can't convince you. But you are irrelevant to my campaign strategy anyway. You aren't targeted. Swing voters are. I say defund to them, they see these democratic mayors cutting police funds, it then makes it very easy for a political strategist to make them believe the democrats want to do away with the police. There's a grain of truth there, not the whole truth, maybe not even 10% or 20%, but enough to bend their perspective into believing it.

Way too long winded. Why do myths last and last, mainly because there's a grain of truth somewhere in them. Maybe just one grain in a beach full of sand, but that grain lasts and lasts. Whatever a strategist uses, it has to have enough truth behind it to be believable to the targeted voter. The rest of all the voters are totally irrelevant. You don't care one iota about them.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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Originally Posted by perotista
...Defund or doing away with the police departments doesn't have to be true. It just has to leave the perspective that is what is happening in the voters mind.
...and who put the perception into people's mind that "defunding the police" literally means cancelling police department by not funding them?

Hmm


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Marketing has become an exact science these days. Ever watched sheepdogs at work...? The billionaire class owns and controls the media and they know exactly what buttons to push to get the best results.

It's rigged alright. And neither pack of dogs has our best interests at heart.


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