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#334743 07/11/21 06:34 PM
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jgw Offline OP
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I have noticed that some Haitians have asked us to send in the troops to fix their problem. AMAZING! When we send in our troop people dies, LOTS of people! When we did Iraq its said that over 200,000 civilians got whacked as well as most of those who joined up with us (translators, etc). In addition we managed to give them an incredibly corrupt government as well. Then there is Afghanistan. Over forty-seven civilians dead, Several thousand that signed up with us to be slaughtered unless we take care of that one and, so far, nothing has happened and we are leaving pretty soon. I could go back to Vietnam but its the same story.

Basically, when we invade someplace we make sure its got an incredibly corrupt government, Kill a bunch of people, and promise everybody that helps us a place in America. We do the first two things efficiently and ignore the last. I am not going to get into right or wrong, these are simple historical facts, this is what we do and how we behave. We were in Haiti once before and behaved just as the events mentioned above and, now, they want us back to do it again?

Obviously, we are simply not being plain enough in our actions or they are bat s*** crazy.

Just saying............

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They're asking for peacekeeping assistance, not airstrikes.

Haiti is a desperately poor island nation. They never recovered from the earthquake. They have been hit with multiple devastating hurricanes and now the pandemic.

What they really need is money. Maybe some of that money we send to Israel...?

Cuba is having issues now too. Biden has left all of Trump's sanctions on Cuba in place.

The USA is a really sh*tty neighbor.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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They asked for American Troops! When we send in our troops people die, a LOT of people die! We responded, this time, with a group of 'experts' My point was that when we send in our army its seemingly never a very good idea for where they are being sent.

As far as Israel is concerned, are you referring to all the loans we have given them that they have never paid back?

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Actually, the US has the habit of moving translators and such to Guam when a conflict ends, processing them for refugee status, and then sending them to the US with Green Cards. We did that with a pile of Vietnamese people, Iraqis after both conflicts, and Afghans as well. People get incensed in the press about the prospect we would NOT do it, but it does happen. I think the exception was the Kurds, because a bunch of countries sponsored and supplied a Kurdish protectorate in Northern Iraq and Turkey.


We're flying electric helicopters on Mars yet you can't turn on your clothes dryer in Texas. That's because scientists are in charge of Mars, and Republicans are in charge of Texas.
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Yep, know about that. I also know that we leave a lot behind. I remember, when we left Viet Nam we left an entire tribe that had aligned with us (some did get in but most didn't). The current Afghanistan mess is yet another example. I saw one translator being interviewed, who has been trying to get a card for 4 years! He has all the paperwork, a stack of references from a variety of American military, etc. but 4 years! He had a wife and kids and running scared. Last week I saw somebody reporting that our bureaucracy has yet to start their investigations as they are very busy with other stuff.

My point was that we simply don't keep our word and yet people still believe in us. I remain amazed!

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People don't believe in "us"

They believe in power and money.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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Pondering;
You are right and they are going to try and move them someplace whilst they are being investigated. Its interesting. I watched one guy say he had been trying for years for a card and failed. The last time because he presented the write up by an American who he worked for and was turned down because the American never replied to the questions from the investigator. He is trying again and has something from the current US Officer he is currently working for but has no hope.

Gen Milley said, on TV, that over 20 years we actually built up a group of thousands who have worked for us and been made promises by Americans. He went on to say that they are not going to all be let in and that is not right. Its, basically, the way it is I guess.

Eventually the rest of the world is going to get it and it just won't matter what we say to who because nobody will believe a word WE say!

I continue to wonder about we and the Afghanistan thing. Just what, exactly were we doing for 20 years. I know some of it. We, for instance, put in place, and supported what was considered one of the most corrupt governments on the face of the earth. All that being said, nobody, for 20 years, ever did explain what in the hell we were doing over there. My own thought is that they were completely clueless, wanted desperately to win, but had no idea what! They figure our price for that was over 1 trillion dollars! One can only wonder.

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Originally the Taliban was giving UBL a safe heaven and training ground for his AQ operatives. We fought a smart war to begin with, a few SF and paramilitary on the ground letting the 13 tribe Northern Alliance do the ground fighting while we provided the air support. That worked great as eventually the Northern Alliance drove the Taliban into the mountains near the Pakistani border. But failed to capture UBL. We could have ended our involvement then and there. But didn’t.

Then things went south, we decided on nation building and introduced 100,000 troops supposedly to search the mountains for UBL. What the 13 tribe Northern Alliance wanted was to go back to their home territory and let their tribal elders and religious leaders govern or rule over them. But we decided to force democracy on them. The main reason for the Northern Alliance fighting the Taliban was the Taliban wanted to rule over all tribes in Afghanistan. One tribe, one ruler. By us forcing democracy on them, we ended up letting one tribe, one man rule over them. Although this did give them the vote. This wasn’t what they wanted.

Some of the tribes of the Northern Alliance once our allies, deserted us and became our enemies because we forced our form of government on them. They wanted to be ruled by people of their own tribe, not by someone from another tribe. We could have left a few SF and paramilitary with each tribe instead of introducing 100,000 of our troops. Then when the Taliban started to return, we could have brought our air power to bear and once again let the Northern Alliance do the ground fighting. They’d be defending their homeland and they would do that furiously. This probably would have been a never-ending thing, but a 20-year war is about as close to never ending as one can get.

We should have let the Afghans have the form of government they wanted. Now that’s hindsight. But it’s my two cents, for what it’s worth. Perhaps stuff like this is caused by our western mind and culture that fails to recognize that other cultures, especially in Asia and Africa think differently and have different cultural norms.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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Yep, that's pretty much what and how we do and it never ends well. I suspect one can tell the future as soon as we send in the troop in any numbers, based on past experience, as its pretty much the same, with quirks. The one I thought was interesting was the one in Iraq when we sent a sergeant with a pickup full of American money, which belonged to Iraq and gave the whole works to a mystery man (this one was never solved and the sergeant was just following orders but nobody knew from who). It was a LOT of money! There always seems to be mysteries as well as all the rest.

The congressional investigation into the Iraq thing was pretty interesting. I don't think they ever had one for VietNam or, so far, Afghanistan.

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The whole "let's invade Iraq because of 9/11" thing was idiotic from Day 1. Clusterfug on top of clusterfug, to put it politely. But what could we expect from W and Cheney. You elect clowns and you get a circus. Then "let's invade Afghanistan", where empires go to die. You'd think we would have learned something from Russia's experience. They left it for us as a tar baby! And sure enough, we had to hit it with that stick.

If we needed to take out Osama, the way Obama did it is what you should try for.


We're flying electric helicopters on Mars yet you can't turn on your clothes dryer in Texas. That's because scientists are in charge of Mars, and Republicans are in charge of Texas.
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