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#334914 07/31/21 05:52 PM
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jgw Offline OP
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I wasn't sure where to put this. Its interesting. Years ago government was discussed and on tv, and taught in all the schools and people were interested. Then, somehow, we became warriors, congressional powers were gifted to the presidency, and, in the beginning, our military talked a lot about making sure our ranks were fully blooded to make them ready and able to take on the enemy Now, however, we have moved away from government. Its no longer a subject in many schools, both parties are held in incredibly low esteem and our congress is actually considered lower than a worm. Our joy is hammering the whole works. Unending wars, trillions in treasure for supposed victories that never completed. We have a bureaucracy which has not seen an overhaul for well over 75 years! Major businesses will usually hire consultants to vet their operations annually (I remember the days and I became convinced that such consultant skills were, basically simply coming from someplace else. its kind a like importing people that get successful by noticing holes for them to fill).

Anyway, we are currently being given a wonderful example of bureaucracy in action. Biden has now been talking about saving the thousands of allies we are currently abandoning in Afghanistan. He ordered it done, the military agreed to get it done, congress seemed to have agreed its the right thing to do. We are gone in two weeks. We have had months to do it and NOTHING has been done. Now we have emergency plans to ship them someplace save whilst we vet them - if they can get to the capital. Also seems the Taliban don' want that to happen so they are blocking and we are claiming, whining, and failing for all to see! Nobody, incidentally is too concerned because its what we did in Viet Nam, Iraq, and now Afghanistan. We will forget in the blur of politics which is just another example of our inability to function at any high level. In the months since the orders have bone out there has been a constant note that ain't nutt'in happening. NOTHING! Our Incredible bureaucracy is thinking on it, studying, writing about it, etc. They have, basically found a job that they can milk the hell out of and screw this highfalutin talk of keeping our word! We have, I believe, a bureaucracy completely dedicated to itself. Their job is to make damn sure they have a job and, obviously, they can do that REALLY WELL! Screw the mission! I remember, back in the good old days, when government and bureaucracy where the subject and books were published and questions asked. That was just before we went to sleep. its not that there weren't warning is was that we were tired.

We have ignored our government. We pay more attention to grown men and women having hissing contests! WE are supposed to be in charge! We do that, evidently, by ignoring that very fact. We have allowed people to do a great job of separating the nation into virtual warring parties - one side with no leadership and the other autocratic. I keep on thinking somebody will put a stop to it but its great for the contestants! They no longer have time to do their job - they have IMPORTANT things to do!. The fact is that the majority deals with their goverment with "Screw the government, I don' like it anyway" attitude and it just gets worse. TV doesn't mention it, schools don't teach it, and majority don' give a damn anyway.

Its a shame, we know, it and we don't care. Perhaps we actually are not only responsible for it, we actually seem to dote on the results. I certainly don't blame everybody but me because I'm here I am just as responsible as everybody else.

Boring, I know and apologize. Went a couple of weeks without the news and kinda got kicked in the head. Wish there was a solution...................

Last edited by jgw; 08/01/21 07:02 PM.
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jgw #334917 07/31/21 07:36 PM
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Interesting, there's really not much there I would disagree with. Polls back you up. 22% of all Americans approve the job congress is doing. 57% disapprove. 34% think this country is headed in the right direction, 54% say the wrong direction. 35% have a favorable view of congressional democrats, 28% of congressional Republicans.About the only political person with a good approval mark is President Biden at 51% with 45% disapproving. VP Harris is at 43% favorable, 46% unfavorable.

I would say two things are responsible for the above. Perhaps these two fall into one category. Today's modern political era of polarization, the great divide and the super, mega, ultra-high partisanship along with the rise in independents from 30% in 2006 to 44% today if Gallup is to be believed while the two major parties shrink. Independents don't really like either party while most can be put into a lean category.

Government, yes in school in my days that was big. Civics as it was called was required. I don't know what they teach or don't teach today. Kids out of school, even a some grand kids out of school. You also hit the nail on the head of congress giving or ceding a lot of their constitutional powers to the administration or president. This has been going on ever since Rayburn, McCormick and Albert stepped down from the speakership. Since then the congress when controlled by the party that holds the president have been giving more and more power to the presidency trying to give the president everything he wants.

It also in congress's eyes made it easier to get reelected. Now congress can say they aren't to blame, it's the administration or that department or that agency, that the decision was out of their hands.

I leave this at this point, just saying I agree with you.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
jgw #334934 08/01/21 05:25 PM
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All but 11 states require some sort of civics education in high school.

Kids don't care about government. Making them memorize some facts so they can pass a test doesn't teach them civics. The emphasis in education has shifted more toward core subjects required to pass standardized exams. Not the basics you need to live your life, but the test numbers you'll need for higher education.
It is what it is.

To my notion it is the parents' job to instill an interest in our duties as citizens. It is the parents' job to teach them how to balance a checkbook and how to interact with society at large, and how to change a tire.

Citizens disengage from politics when they feel dis-enfranchised. When they feel that their vote doesn't count, that government does not work for them. It's been a long time since government was of by and for the people.

It is entirely swayed by the wishes and desires of the very very wealthy.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
Greger #334938 08/01/21 06:28 PM
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Kids learn, its in most of their genes. They don't have to understand so much as learn. You are right, kids don't care about government but, in high school many do and they know its there. They also learn math, and history and, chances are, they don't care for those either - but later? Perhaps! Because they know such exists!

I am not sure what you are talking about, actually I am not sure you know what you are talking about. I do know that you don't seem to think that teaching them about anything they are not interested in is the way to go.

Amazing ...................

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jgw #334941 08/01/21 06:47 PM
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It seems that the federal mandate not to throw anybody out of a rental is coming to an end. There is, however, a plan that was distributed to states to take care of the problem. The name of the plan is Eviction Prevention and Rental Assistance Program or EPRAP. Only 12 percent (about 3 billion) of $25 billion approved in December has reached people in need so far. It ends next week.

This one is a study of Bureauracy in Action. The feds gave it to the states and the states aren't doing their jobs. If you google this one its gets very strange very quick. There is, for instance, a lot of stuff for Washington state but that, I think, is because they may have been spending the money and actually helping renters and landlords. There are other states that have a site for the program but little or no information on distribution .

I wonder, is it bureaucracy or politics or a combination of both. I do know that elder bureaucracies tend to have made their mission second to maintaining their own jobs by clever and insidious ways. There are a lot of books written on bureaucracies. Pick one and read it. They all, for the most part, are singing the same messages.

Again, the feds haven't had an overhaul for something like 80 years. I have no idea about the states but I betcha, for many, they have never taken a good hard look at how they are spending their money when it comes to bureauracy. I have also read books where nations have been taken down due to bureaucracy. Two that come to mind is Rome and China. I have been pleading, for years, for the United States to create a new Hoover commission to check what the feds are doing to no avail.

Again - nobody seems to give a damn if their own government is actually working in their own interest. Seems to me that just might be a little mistake?

Last edited by jgw; 08/01/21 06:56 PM.
jgw #334962 08/04/21 05:23 PM
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Remember, TV gave us Trump amongst other things. However, TV has yet to mention that the problem over the rental stuff was a problem of the states because they simply never distributed the money given them for dealing with the rental problem. TV seems to make some very strange decisions. I remember Trump as TV was constantly reporting that those running TV were delighted to give Trump all the free time he wanted as TV income went up. He amused the public!

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jgw #334967 08/06/21 03:58 PM
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Quote
TV gave us Trump
TV has yet to mention...
TV seems to make some very strange decisions...
TV was constantly reporting...
TV were delighted to give Trump all the free time he wanted as TV income went up.

TV is not a reliable source of news. It's propaganda for the brainwashed masses. It's entertainment for the easily entertained.

It is moneymaking scheme run entirely by our corporate overlords.

I haven't had one for 20 years or more.


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jgw #334968 08/06/21 07:33 PM
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Especially the cable news networks. FoxNews is a propaganda wing of the Republican Party, CNN and MSNBC the propaganda wings of the Democratic Party. Very few Americans expect the MSM to give us the straight news, fully, fairly and accurately.

Here's why.

56% of Americans agree with the statement that "Journalists and reporters are purposely trying to mislead people by saying things they know are false or gross exaggerations."
58% think that "most news organizations are more concerned with supporting an ideology or political position than with informing the public."

https://www.axios.com/media-trust-crisis-2bf0ec1c-00c0-4901-9069-e26b21c283a9.html

and

Americans Remain Distrustful of Mass Media

https://news.gallup.com/poll/321116/americans-remain-distrustful-mass-media.aspx


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #334969 08/06/21 11:43 PM
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It's the Despair Quotient!
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Originally Posted by perotista

Which leaves us with:

Who TF stands to gain the most by working to make most Americans distrustful of mass media? (aka the news)


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jgw #334970 08/07/21 01:10 AM
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What you have, especially on cable is news networks owned by corporations who are in the news business to make money, a profit. One way to do this is to give your audience the news in the manner or with the right political tilt that the viewership wants. The more viewers, the more each can charge for the commercials, the more money each makes.

A good majority of Americans feel the MSM has taken sides in our political battles. That they aren't reporting straight news anymore, not fully, not fairly and not accurate. I think this comes from the news networks trying to give their viewers what they want in order to keep them and add more viewership. If you look at the graft from Gallup you'll see Democrats have always been much more trustful than Republicans and Independents.

Today, 60% of all adults only trust the MSM a little or none at all. Breaking this down 89% of Republicans have little to no Trust while only 27% of Democrats have little to no trust. In a case like this, I turn to independents, the less to non-partisans, the non-affiliated to get a more accurate picture without the partisanship of both parties thrown in. 64% of independents have little to no trust.

I'd say the Republicans don't trust the MSM because they or should I say conservatives have but one major news network, FOX. The rest are pretty much liberal or Democratic.

So who has the most to gain from the distrust of the MSM, Republicans of course. That's a no brainier. Myself, I don't watch cable news, I haven't since the 1990's. I'll google the stories I'm interest in.

The problem is in my opinion, folks associate the MSM, all of it with cable news. Gone are the days when we had just the three over the air networks with each having but a 30 minute segment for national news. Then, there was no choice but to give the straight news, report the event without having a million and one guests on to tell us what we should think of the event. Back then, with the time constants, all three would report on what happened and then move on to the next news item, no time for guests. Just straight news. The viewer was left to decide what they made of the event without guests and panels telling us what it meant and what we are suppose to think about it.

Until CNN and the advent of cable news, between 68% and 72% of all Americans trusted the MSM to give them straight news, fully, accurate and fair.

Today, finding out what Republicans make of the news that is happening is easy to do, just tune in Fox. If I want to find out how the Democrats view the news events, tune to CNN and MSNBC. Most of the time one would swear each is talking or reporting on different events in the news than the same one.

In the end, I'd say it all boils down to making money. Each individual wants their political beliefs reinforced, that's easy to do today. If you're a conservative, you flock to Fox, if you're a liberal, it's CNN and MSNBC. We've come to a point where we don't want our news without the political bias we get from cable news. It goes with today's modern political era of polarization, the great divide and the super, mega, ultra-high partisanship we're in. The news networks have found an easy way to make tons of money from today's modern political era. Give the viewers what they want in the way they want it.

All you have to remember is that today news is a money making scheme for the corporations. Present the news with the proper political slant, make money, money, money will keep pouring in.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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