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Beautiful, beautiful language...
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The Drift, Thread Association Thread
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... doubt is our product...
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I’ll Buy That
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Republicans promise brutal revenge in 2022
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masks and vaccinations
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How’s about a personal story that isn’t an argument?


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
jgw #335241 08/26/21 02:09 AM
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I didn’t mean argument in that sense. I should have been more clear. But okay: My second husband was devoted to me, never wanted us to be apart. It all looked very sweet and honey-mooney from the outside. But he wasn’t being sweet; he was being a warden. He didn’t let me out of his sight. I remember once he insisted I come out and watch him water the yard; my being in the living room, alone with a book, simply wasn’t acceptable.

It was psychologically terrifying, and we weren’t married very long. Abusive men are very often charming - but being charming on the outside can hide a lot of ugliness. When I spoke to someone at the spouse abuse crisis center, and explained what was going on, I was told to get the hell out, because although he hadn’t hit me yet, he was going to, and soon. I got out.

All of this is to say the appearance of charm, or generosity, or kindness, doesn’t count for much. Two clichès: actions speak louder than words, and don’t judge a book by its cover.


Julia
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Jeebus! shocked


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
jgw #335246 08/26/21 12:57 PM
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Yeah, it was a hot mess, but it was a long time ago. But I think it’s why reacted, and probably misread to some extent, pondering’s and greger’s posts. In fact, re-reading it, I see more clearly what pondering was saying and I agree. I reacted to the words, not to what they said, and I apologize.

I still have to disagree with Greger in that I believe true predators are a minority among men. Maybe that’s just me being hopeful, but I don’t believe the numbers support it.


Julia
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Most men are able to control their baser instincts.

To some extent.

I'm not saying that good men don't exist. But I believe there is a dark side to all of them/us. The capability to take advantage of and abuse those around them when the chance arises exists in all of them.

Catholic priests are a pretty good example.

Are their life and their ministry to their flock nothing more than a facade to hide their craving for sex with young boys...? Or are they good men brought low by a repressive system that denies them basic physical needs?

Men are a twisted lot. Warlike, brutal, greedy, and abusive.

When I said I hoped he was kind I meant that I hoped he only raped them and didn't also beat them. And that the help continued afterward.

Many would just kick them to the curb when they were done. Or kill them outright.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
Greger #335249 08/26/21 02:31 PM
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And I will not accept that rape is kinder than a beating, or the other way around.

There may be a dark side to any or all of us. But I don’t believe that we are all hulking around fighting the inner beast and an instinct to rape and pillage. Most of us are in hunt and gather mode, as in “Where’s the nearest post office” and “are grapefruits on sale at Kroger’s?”

I’m not being flippant here. Even in war, many many many soldiers say a) they got no joy out of killing other humans and b) many many many of them regret what they had to do. And if that’s true of enemies in war, at mankind’s most bloodthirsty, how much more would it be true of fellow humans in peace?


Julia
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Quote
if that’s true of enemies in war, at mankind’s most bloodthirsty, how much more would it be true of fellow humans in peace?

Ask the Taliban that question. Ask ISIS, Ask the many many American war criminals. The Nazis. The guards at Andersonville.

Or the guards at Guantanamo Bay.

Check your news for rapes and murders and child abuse. Some men control their urge to abuse fellow humans...but take it out on their dogs!
Many upstanding members of the community abuse their wives and children emotionally and sometimes physically.

I don't think you could argue that we are the most dangerous animal on the planet.

Like any other animal, when we are well fed and sexually sated, comfortable and happy, warm and dry, we are easier to get along with.

Sometimes.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
jgw #335255 08/26/21 03:08 PM
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Greger, you are in danger of mansplaining. Humans are not born Nazis, or Taliban. They are taught and trained, like some but not all Rottweilers and pit bulls. And those groups you name are still only a percentage, not even half - of humanity.

If the majority of humanity were as you say, there would be blood in the streets, not in some places, but all over the earth. And there isn’t. Far too much, yes, but it’s not overwhelming.

Either we disagree on this very deeply, or you are feeding me a line to see how far you can lead me. One way or another, the dentist is gracing me with a crown this morning, so I’m off to his throne. (He’s an ex-soldier, and a very good dentist, and I feel perfectly safe with him.)


Julia
“It’s the shipwreck that leads you to the magical island.”
(Trevor Noah)
jgw #335275 08/26/21 10:52 PM
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Our governor made some comments today; I will excerpt them here.

One: he declared a hospital staffing emergency in the state., although

Two: he said hospital capacity remains manageable, and the increased load was not due to more Covid cases across the state. I can’t find what the cause of the increased load might be, unless it’s too many funnel cakes at state and county fairs.

Three: he repeated his opposition to mask and vaccine mandates, especially in schools., because “We know that children are no more at risk to fatality from COVID than they are from the regular flu.”

In short, we’re going to re-license retired nurses if we can find them, and not worry about the little kids unless they start to die in larger numbers.


Julia
“It’s the shipwreck that leads you to the magical island.”
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Originally Posted by Mellowicious
Humans are not born Nazis, or Taliban.
I was born a Mormon, but my parents had me vaccinated. So far, so good...


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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