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#335514 09/03/21 03:25 PM
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I just read an article having to do with the effect of episodes of national peril and Americans coming together - for awhile, anyway. The author was comparing 9/11 and Covid 19 and how the one created solidarity and the other is creating division. I'd didn't really find much interesting in the actual article, so I'm not posting a link - but it did raise the concept of "sides" in the old box of headrocks. No conclusions, just wondering about the substance of the concept.

It Takes Two To Tango: nice metaphor, but does it really hold up as a rule in Sidesism? No, not as a rule, but sometimes - usually when both sides have similar attitude conflicts. But what about when a guy walks into a cowboy bar wearing round rim glasses (hey, my eyes are round, seems like my lenses should be round, too), orders a craft beer, and a rough looking patron gets too close with his cigarette and Bud Lite and in a loud voice says, "You lost your mommy, commie a$$hole? She's in the back room serving tricks!" Is that a "two sides" issue? Or is that a situation of one side forcing there to be two sides? Doesn't seem like the dancing metaphor holds up - more like an assault or rape type of a deal. Is rape a two sides affair?

Covid 19 sides: I don't think I need to go into any details, there are sooo many, but in my perception the two sides consist of people who believe in the science of vaccines and who don't have an irrational distrust of government (who has a complete trust, right?) versus those who are living in paranoid conspiracy land. Certainly, this appears to be a case of two sides - but I think embedded in the Sideism paradigm is an unspoken assumption that the sides are equivalent in validity. It doesn't take much thought in the way of philosophy or psychology to recognize that true equivalence of contradictory positions is rare and transient. For the sake of oversimplification, when the two sides are: 1) intelligent; and 2) unintelligent, is there any productive purpose in claiming some sort of equivalence? It appears that granting of equivalence is a point for the side of unintelligence.

Yesterday there was a post on a biochar email discussion group that I follow about the EPA conducting a review of its air quality regs relating to pyrolysis (partial gasification via heating) and the burning of produced syngas (smoke). They don't currently have specific regs for it, and have lumped it in with the "incineration" category - the burning of solid materials into ash. Contrary to the "don't trust the gummit" side, they have recognized internally that pyrolysis is a promising emerging technology and applying incineration regs to it creates unproductive obstacles. I consulted with some EPA staff a couple of weeks ago on the issue, and they are genuinely excited about fixing this problem (it presently costs tens or hundreds of thousands of $$ to comply with the incineration regs for each pyrolyzer installation - think of it as every wood stove owner needing to monitor and report on the flue gas composition every time they burn a fire). So the guy who posted the notice on the forum went out of his way to warn everybody that they need to get on submitting comments because "the enviros" were sure to be in there working their butts off to make pyrolysis illegal. Really?? I responded, thanking him for advising everyone of the stakeholder/public input opportunity, but also explaining to him that artificially spinning the subject into imaginary opposing sides was unnecessary and probably would be damaging to the outcome - that was my take on it as a 50 year environmental activist and a pyrolysis equipment developer and manufacturer. Haven't seen a reply from him, but there are numerous comments supporting my post.

Sideism - is it real, or manufactured from delusion and bigotry?


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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
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logtroll #335516 09/03/21 04:23 PM
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I agree that there is too great an effort to find equivalency when it really doesn't exist. It is particularly endemic in journalism, where it is viewed as "balance". But seeking that balance results in giving a megaphone to antisocial miscreants and bolstering their credibility. That was the problem with giving North Korea's Kim an audience, and pretending Russia is still a world power. Fascists are not equivalent to democrats, racists should not be given oxygen, and the lynchers are not the equal - morally, legally or intellectually - of the lynched.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
logtroll #335518 09/03/21 04:45 PM
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I wonder where that “fair and balanced” shtick got started. I doubt it would have been tolerated by Murrow, or Uncle Walter after him, or Daniel Schorr, or Bill Bradley.

Would it be fair (or reasonable) to lay this at the feet of power-hungry religious leaders, manipulative politicians (although there have been manipulative politicians for just about ever,) and weak journalists?


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logtroll #335579 09/04/21 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by logtroll
I just read an article having to do with the effect of episodes of national peril and Americans coming together - for awhile, anyway.
If Earth were attacked by another civilization from deep space - you bet warring earthly human factions would come together. smile


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Mellowicious #335580 09/04/21 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Mellowicious
I wonder where that “fair and balanced” shtick got started.
October 7, 1996.

The first day Fox News Channel began to broadcast on cable. smile


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pdx rick #335622 09/04/21 11:53 PM
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warring earthly human factions would come together

You would think so, but if there was any benefit for siding with the aliens, some people would do that. Trumpers decided to side with Russia. Steven Seagal is still living in Moscow!


We're flying electric helicopters on Mars yet you can't turn on your clothes dryer in Texas. That's because scientists are in charge of Mars, and Republicans are in charge of Texas.
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Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
Quote
warring earthly human factions would come together

You would think so, but if there was any benefit for siding with the aliens, some people would do that. Trumpers decided to side with Russia. Steven Seagal is still living in Moscow!

You're probably right. I'm am now thinking of Dr. Smith of Lost in Space fame.


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logtroll #335627 09/05/21 12:28 AM
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Not to mention a world-wide threat like, oh, a pandemic.


Julia
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(Trevor Noah)
Mellowicious #335632 09/05/21 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Mellowicious
Not to mention a world-wide threat like, oh, a pandemic.
A pandemic hasn't pulled Americans together in red state America, because...freedumbs.


Hmm


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logtroll #335633 09/05/21 02:59 AM
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Yes,dear. I was being sarcastic. (Hope your move wasn’t too difficult.)


Julia
“It’s the shipwreck that leads you to the magical island.”
(Trevor Noah)
logtroll #335634 09/05/21 04:24 AM
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offtopic

The move actually was difficult. Probably one of the more harder moves. I plan on this move being my last move ever. smile


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pdx rick #335652 09/05/21 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by pdx rick
Originally Posted by Mellowicious
Not to mention a world-wide threat like, oh, a pandemic.
A pandemic hasn't pulled Americans together in red state America, because...freedumbs.


Hmm

Quote of the week Bow


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pdx rick #335653 09/05/21 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Mellowicious
Not to mention a world-wide threat like, oh, a pandemic.

Originally Posted by pdx rick
A pandemic hasn't pulled Americans together in red state America, because...freedumbs.


Hmm

America, where according to Trumpers, a virus has full reproductive rights, but women don't.

Last edited by Jeffery J. Haas; 09/05/21 05:57 PM.

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Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted by Mellowicious
Not to mention a world-wide threat like, oh, a pandemic.

Originally Posted by pdx rick
A pandemic hasn't pulled Americans together in red state America, because...freedumbs.


Hmm

America, where according to Trumpers, a virus has full reproductive rights, but women don't.

Are you saying a fetus is a virus? I wonder if horse wormer works on it?


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
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I can just about guarantee that over history, every flower, root, leaf, mushroom, and bark has been tested, along with every liquid known to mankind, as well as every chemical concoction or pharmacological invention. So yes, I’m guessing some extremely desperate woman probably tried whatever was available in house or in barn.


Julia
“It’s the shipwreck that leads you to the magical island.”
(Trevor Noah)
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