Today's Birthdays
OpinionatedAlien
Current Topics
A Musical Quiz
by Ken Condon - 12/04/21 03:46 AM
What's for dinner?
by pondering_it_all - 12/04/21 02:39 AM
lying on the internet
by pondering_it_all - 12/04/21 02:16 AM
RoundTable For Fall 2021
by pondering_it_all - 12/04/21 02:07 AM
Winning
by perotista - 12/04/21 12:50 AM
... doubt is our product...
by chunkstyle - 12/03/21 05:09 PM
Denialism
by Greger - 12/03/21 03:37 PM
Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century?
by pondering_it_all - 12/01/21 08:51 PM
I’ll Buy That
by Greger - 12/01/21 07:22 PM
Boundaries for Facebook
by jgw - 11/30/21 06:26 PM
Pacific Northwest Weather
by pdx rick - 11/28/21 08:59 PM
A Fungus Amungus
by logtroll - 11/28/21 01:25 PM
Republicans promise brutal revenge in 2022
by pdx rick - 11/27/21 08:45 PM
masks and vaccinations
by logtroll - 11/27/21 01:36 PM
Vigilantism - why isn’t it illegal?
by logtroll - 11/25/21 11:46 PM
"Mom, I think it's a boy."
by TatumAH - 11/25/21 04:37 AM
Gerrymandering
by perotista - 11/23/21 10:17 PM
You don't know beans! vs Killer Beans
by TatumAH - 11/23/21 08:37 PM
Popular Topics(Views)
9,688,169 my own book page
4,785,021 We shall overcome
3,871,037 Campaign 2016
3,531,211 Trump's Trumpet
2,795,449 3 word story game
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#338545 11/18/21 10:07 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,378
Likes: 12
J
jgw Offline OP
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
J
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,378
Likes: 12
I would appreciate it if somebody will tell me if the following is correct.

Gov wants everybody to be vaccinated for covid. To accomplish this they have mandated vaccination for all sorts of folks. People who do not get vaccinated are much more likely to catch covid. On the other hand, if you have your shots and your booster you are a VERY unlikely candidate to get covid (I think nobody like that has gotten covid but may be wrong).

So, gov wants everybody to also wear masks. The problem is that those who have not been vaccinated can get covid and that covid may be changed a bit and that change may create a covid problem in that the disease gets worse or even deadly. Again, because those who are not vaccinated tend to create covid problems with others of their kind.

So, apparently, they want me to wear a mask because I may not be a candidate for covid so much as I may still be able to carry, and infect, those who are likely to catch the covid thing. My wearing a mask, then, is to try to stop those who are not vaccinated from getting covid and possibly helping to create a covid strain that can kill anybody who gets infected with it. Basically, those who will not get vaccinated are being, in theory, saved by me and my not wearing a mask in public.

If the above is right (not really sure), then when I wear a mask what I am actually doing is stretching out the time when everybody is either masked or have natural immunity due to catching covid. If this is true, then I am wondering.

What would happen if everybody who has been vaccinated just stopped with the mask thing, completely. There is likely to be lots of un-vaccinated getting covid but the waiting time for the time when everybody is either vaccinated or have natural immunity is likely be a lot less than when all the vaccinated wear masks to try and make that so.

Now we apparently have a 600 dollar pill that the un-vaccinated can take (which we, apparently are going to pay for, for them) which means they won't even go to a hospital,etc. Apparently these un-vaccinated will also get natural immunity as they did catch covid.

So, I those of us who are vaccinated and boosted stop wearing our masks the un-vaccinated are more likely to get covid but they can take a pill (on our dime) to save themselves. My own thought is that not wearing a mask, all things considered, is probably a smart thing to do and will hasten the time it will take to have everybody owning some kind of immunity which is the goal.

so, does it make sense that we all stop the mask thing in the interest of the whole?

The only other thing is whether or not tax dollars should be used to pay for the medicine, pills, and care spent (medical expenses) on the non-vaccinated. (I know, mean spirited thought - sorry....)

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 27
member
Online Sick
member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 27
[quote=jgw]I would appreciate it if somebody will tell me if the following is correct.

Gov wants everybody to be vaccinated for covid.
Yes
To accomplish this they have mandated vaccination for all sorts of folks.
Yes
People who do not get vaccinated are much more likely to catch covid.
Yes
On the other hand, if you have your shots and your booster you are a VERY unlikely candidate to get covid (I think nobody like that has gotten covid but may be wrong).
No, you may still catch it but unlikely to need hospitalization

So, gov wants everybody to also wear masks.
Yes
The problem is that those who have not been vaccinated can get covid and that covid may be changed a bit and that change may create a covid problem in that the disease gets worse or even deadly.
Yes
Again, because those who are not vaccinated tend to create covid problems with others of their kind. \
Yes

So, apparently, they want me to wear a mask because I may not be a candidate for covid so much as I may still be able to carry, and infect, those who are likely to catch the covid thing.
Yes
My wearing a mask, then, is to try to stop those who are not vaccinated from getting covid and possibly helping to create a covid strain that can kill anybody who gets infected with it.
Yes
Basically, those who will not get vaccinated are being, in theory, saved by me and my not wearing a mask in public.
Yes

If the above is right (not really sure), then when I wear a mask what I am actually doing is stretching out the time when everybody is either masked or have natural immunity due to catching covid.
Yes, except the two population that will eventually result are those who have been immunized and those who have caught covid. There is a third group who have been immunized and catch covid, but they are unlikely to die from it, as opposed to the un-immunized who may die. These are the only three outcomes, although the unimmunized and immunized may end up with chronic long covid, that I would much rather not get from sociopathic anti-vaxers. If only the unimmunized would die with much higher probability, the rest of us would be much more safe.

If this is true, then I am wondering.
What would happen if everybody who has been vaccinated just stopped with the mask thing, completely.
This modest proposal has considerable appeal, but until the kids and grandkids get immunized, so doing would increase the risk to your kids and grandkids!!!

There is likely to be lots of un-vaccinated getting covid but the waiting time for the time when everybody is either vaccinated or have natural immunity is likely be a lot less than when all the vaccinated wear masks to try and make that so.

Yes, except the cost could be the loss of your spawn and grandspawn, and those of others, not a tradeoff I'm willing to make, as the vaccine for even infants is not far off. The anti-vax subcreatures are hoping to continue the Covid epidemic, for political advantage to show Biden as ineffectual, at least through the mid-terms, but as sociopaths they dont even care about their own offspring or grandoffspring,
This is where they have an advantage, as game theory experts tell us, when you throw a sociopath into game theory, the sociopaths always win because they will do whatever is need to win. It's unfair, but what else is new?.

Now we apparently have a 600 dollar pill that the un-vaccinated can take (which we, apparently are going to pay for, for them)
Yes, but they also presumably pay taxes, but naturally having an effective treatment will be used by anti-vaxer to prevent more vaccination and prolong our risks

Which means they won't even go to a hospital,etc.

Maybe, but they will get modest natural immunity, but not the robust immunity of immunization, and 80% will not need to be hospitalized, but 20% may die a grizzly death on a respirator, which we WILL pay for, unless a law is passed so that the un-immunized get treated in a tent city in say, International Falls Minn, my modest proposal!

Apparently these un-vaccinated will also get natural immunity as they did catch covid.
No, with a shortened clinical course they likely will not get the immunity of immunization, but may get increased mucosal immunity, not provided by immunization, which may help to prevent reinfection, but we dont have data for that, as though they are data driven which we know to be untrue.

So, If those of us who are vaccinated and boosted stop wearing our masks the un-vaccinated are more likely to get covid
Yes but very small numbers
but they can take a pill (on our dime) to save themselves.
Yes, but well, their dimes too
My own thought is that not wearing a mask, all things considered,
Yes if you dont care about kids or grandkids getting sick and possibly chronically ill

is probably a smart thing to do and will hasten the time it will take to have everybody owning some kind of immunity which is the goal.

No, because immunity for kids and grandkids is imminent and we can get them immunized soon and protect them

so, does it make sense that we all stop the mask thing in the interest of the whole?
No not now!, but after all kids and grandkids that we want to protect have been immunized,
Yes, it can only help to raise the IQs of the gene pool, that is undergoing swampy stagnant degeneration

The only other thing is whether or not tax dollars should be used to pay for the medicine, pills, and care spent (medical expenses) on the non-vaccinated. (I know, mean spirited thought - sorry

No, after all adults, elderly, and kids are voluntarily immunized, the ACA should be amended to bring back the pre-existing anti-vax stupidity and then just like Ole Time Religion, you can pay or die, your choice under freedumb!
Modestly proposally yours
TAT


There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,487
Likes: 71
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,487
Likes: 71
Some of those points have a little more complexity than just a black or white answer. First of all, even if you are vaccinated and boosted, a certain percentage of people will be immunocompromised and not respond well (or even at all) to their vaccinations. If exposed, they will probably die. Your immune system gets less competent as you age, so the elderly and people with co-morbidities may get hospitalized and may die, despite vaccination. A SARS-COV2 infection will always happen, vaxxed or not, if you get exposed to enough virus. Your infection may be asymptomatic, but no Covid is a hell of a lot better than "mild Covid", so it behooves us vaxxed folks to be careful, wear masks, avoid crowds, etc.

The wonder drugs like remdesivir, monoclonal antibodies, mulnupiravir, and paxlovid theoretically work great, but to get their benefit you have to start them while the virus is still replicating. Unfortunately, that mostly happens before you have any symptoms. I doubt anti-vaxxers, or even the vaccine-hesitant will seek out antiviral treatment until it's too late to benefit much from those expensive drugs. Especially if their early symptoms just seem like a head cold, and then the flu. By the time they start having difficulty breathing, antivirals are useless. Tamiflu has the same problem.

People getting vaxxed costs the government (meaning us taxpayers) about $30 per vaccination. People staying in the hospital, the ICU, and dying in the ICU after a month cost us a lot, up to millions of dollars. So there should be a huge economic incentive to get vaccinated, but since it only affects 1-2% of the population antivaxxers just ignore that. We could say your health insurance does not cover Covid-19 expenses if you could be vaccinated but opt-out. We could also say health insurance costs $5000 more per year for that reason. That would be some incentives that might reach people, except the anti-vaxxers tend to opt-out of insurance if we let them. Maybe we need to offer a $5000 tax credit per person for being vaccinated.


We're flying electric helicopters on Mars yet you can't turn on your clothes dryer in Texas. That's because scientists are in charge of Mars, and Republicans are in charge of Texas.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,378
Likes: 12
J
jgw Offline OP
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
J
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,378
Likes: 12
I never thought of the children. I will, therefore, wear my mask. I will continue to have a problem with the anti vaccination folks. They are risking their children. Hell, some of them are working at that (marching against, rioting against, etc). I suspect they actually believe their baloney and that is a shame as well as being dangerous. There has to be some way to explain that if you claim something is true then you also should be forced to explain your basis for the truth. There is a phrase; "junk in, junk out" and this REALLY applies to the crazies of which we have many.

Now, if everybody would simply ask what facts support their claims. The big lie, for instance. Where is the objective truth, with real examples fully documented. Claims of same don't count. I suspect that all newsies, for instance, insist on that or ignore the claims. I am really tired of the newsies seemingly not asking for truth basis but letting it pass with a wink and a nod. Its REALLY not time for being lazy!

1 member likes this: Jeffery J. Haas
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 27
member
Online Sick
member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 27
Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
Some of those points have a little more complexity than just a black or white answer. .

Feel free to edit all of my simplistic answers for the general population, line by line, adding line reference numbers, and then we can debate each of them individually grin. jgw was looking for clarification of confusing points, and basic guidance/rationale, and that's pretty much what I provided, except for my "modest proposal" opinions. Given that information he made the rational choice on his own, mission accomplished, not accomplicated! I can pick nits as well as the next furry mammal grin though unlike some, I don't eat them after picking. sick

TAT


There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 44,692
Likes: 46
Member
CHB-OG
Offline
Member
CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 44,692
Likes: 46
Originally Posted by jgw
I...Gov wants everybody to be vaccinated for covid. To accomplish this they have mandated vaccination for all sorts of folks...
No, government has mandated that EVERYBODY be vaxxed and are forcing employers to have their employees vaxxed. Employers are more than happy to push this ask off on the government:

Quote
We have to terminiated you because the government requires us to if you're not vaxxed.

Hmm


Contrarian, extraordinaire


Joined: May 2005
Posts: 44,692
Likes: 46
Member
CHB-OG
Offline
Member
CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 44,692
Likes: 46
Originally Posted by TatumAH
Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
Some of those points have a little more complexity than just a black or white answer. .

Feel free to edit all of my simplistic answers...
They'd be no post left.

coffee


(i'm in super pissy mood due to the Rittenhouse verdict. mad )


Contrarian, extraordinaire


Joined: May 2006
Posts: 10,064
Likes: 45
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 10,064
Likes: 45
This won’t cheer you: Douglas County has had to close its drive-in Covid vaccination site and cancel all appointments while they look for a new location. Why? Repeated vandalism, including arson - not just the (small) facility but the portapotties. As well.

I hope they catch the asshat, and throw the book at him/her.


Julia
“It’s the shipwreck that leads you to the magical island.”
(Trevor Noah)
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,487
Likes: 71
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,487
Likes: 71
Trail cameras are incredibly cheap now. They even have infrared sources, so they work in the dark. That county just needs to put up some hidden cameras and they can jail the very few culprits willing to risk that much for their beliefs.

And what's cool is you know the vandals won't be wearing masks!


We're flying electric helicopters on Mars yet you can't turn on your clothes dryer in Texas. That's because scientists are in charge of Mars, and Republicans are in charge of Texas.
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,644
Likes: 55
L
veteran
Offline
veteran
L
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,644
Likes: 55
Quote
Jabba the Barr helped Democracy? ROTFMOL
TAT
The local doc in charge of the vaxx campaign is happily known as Jabba the Butt.


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 40 guests, and 1 robot.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
SuZQ2, KevFilthyANML, Risky, Gladys G. Jackson, Beach Baby
6,297 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums61
Topics17,254
Posts313,046
Members6,297
Most Online294
Dec 6th, 2017
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.26 Page Time: 0.012s Queries: 36 (0.004s) Memory: 3.0194 MB (Peak: 3.2529 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2021-12-04 04:10:03 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS