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pdx rick #338986 11/29/21 04:08 PM
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Rick, you do realize that this holds true for almost everyone you've ever voted for?

Mueller found nothing and there were no indictments. Anything beyond that is sheer fantasy created by the media and in the fevered imaginations of Democrats.


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pdx rick #338988 11/29/21 04:22 PM
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I disagree. I don't think Barack Obama was like that, nor do I think that Joe Biden is like that. Your mileage may vary.


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pdx rick #338990 11/29/21 05:00 PM
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Of course they weren't like that, Rick, they were Democrats and I'm pretty sure that Democrats are all as pure as the driven snow!

Do I need to go into another tirade about the wonderfulness and abject perfection of all Democrats...?

Some interesting stuff coming out about Hunter Biden and China and the Czech Republic...

Lies, all of it I'm sure. Because Dems are incapable of wrongdoing.


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pdx rick #338991 11/29/21 05:09 PM
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Yes, I do know. A wonderfully informative book called Trump by Wayne Barrett, an investigative journalist from the old Village Voice went into the criminal anthology of the Trumps. I’ve recommended it here IIRC.

I’ve often wondered why, knowing what is known about Trump history, Dem Corp never went for emoluments. Guess they didn’t want to go there. My guess would be not knowing where it would end.

You ever read Assange’s Podesta e-mail drop? Does that strike you as criminality as a form of fraud by the DNC and it’s creditor, HRC?

Also, keeping with the witness stand vibe, do you believe in the first amendment?

Last edited by chunkstyle; 11/29/21 05:09 PM.
pdx rick #338993 11/29/21 05:39 PM
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Biden’s involvement in the Ukraine was eyebrow raising for me.
I dunno. Maybe I should have tried harder in school. Maybe I could have gotten a board seat at an oil company after getting expelled from school for having a good time. Seems like a legit career path.

Last edited by chunkstyle; 11/29/21 05:40 PM.
Greger #339006 11/29/21 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Greger
Rick, you do realize that this holds true for almost everyone you've ever voted for?

Mueller found nothing and there were no indictments. Anything beyond that is sheer fantasy created by the media and in the fevered imaginations of Democrats.
I'm sorry, but that is not even close to being accurate. I've got the report, I've read the report. It is FULL of direct, substantiated, illegal activity as well as numerous attempts, including, specifically, by DJT. That it hasn't been prosecuted is more a function of politics - and political will - than merit. So, let's dispose of that nonsense right now.

I'm kinda flabbergasted, my friends, at some of the nonsense and vitriol being blurped out here. I'm a detail, level-headed, non-partisan observer. The level of detail of criminal activity is not minor or miniscule. The "Steele Dossier" has not been debunked - not even close. Where is this coming from?It Wasn't a Hoax (David Frum, the Atlantic): "If Donald Trump had been supported only by people who affirmatively liked him, his attack on American democracy would never have gotten as far as it did.

Instead, at almost every turn, Trump was helped by people who had little liking for him as a human being or politician, but assessed that he could be useful for purposes of their own. The latest example: the suddenly red-hot media campaign to endorse Trump’s fantasy that he was the victim of a 'Russia hoax.'”

Quote
The factual record on Trump-Russia has been set forth most authoritatively by the report of the Senate Intelligence Committee, then chaired by Richard Burr, a Republican from North Carolina. I’ll reduce the complex details to a very few agreed upon by virtually everybody outside the core Trump-propaganda group.

  • Dating back to at least 2006, Trump and his companies did tens of millions of dollars of business with Russian individuals and other buyers whose profiles raised the possibility of money laundering. More than one-fifth of all the condominiums sold by Trump over his career were purchased in all-cash transactions by shell companies, a 2018 BuzzFeed News investigation found.

    In 2013, Trump’s pursuit of Russian business intensified. That year, he staged the Miss Universe pageant in Moscow. Around that time, Trump opened discussions on the construction of a Trump Tower in Moscow, from which he hoped to earn “hundreds of millions of dollars, if the project advanced to completion,” in the words of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

    Trump continued to pursue the Tower deal for a year after he declared himself a candidate for president. “By early November 2015, Trump and a Russia-based developer signed a Letter of Intent laying out the main terms of a licensing deal,” the Senate Intelligence Committee found. Trump’s representatives directly lobbied aides to Russian President Vladimir Putin in January 2016. Yet repeatedly during the 2016 campaign, Trump falsely stated that he had no business with Russia—perhaps most notably in his second presidential debate against Hillary Clinton, in October 2016.

    Early in 2016, President Putin ordered an influence operation to “harm the Clinton Campaign, tarnish an expected Clinton presidential administration, help the Trump Campaign after Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, and undermine the U.S. democratic process.” Again, that’s from the Senate Intelligence Committee report.

    The Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos “likely learned about the Russian active measures campaign as early as April 2016,” the Senate Intelligence Committee wrote. In May 2016, Papadopoulos indiscreetly talked with Alexander Downer, then the Australian high commissioner to the United Kingdom, about Russia’s plot to intervene in the U.S. election to hurt Clinton and help Trump. Downer described the conversation in a report to his government. By long-standing agreement, Australia shares intelligence with the U.S. government. It was Papadopoulos’s blurt to Downer that set in motion the FBI investigation of Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election, a revelation authoritatively reported more than three years ago.

    In June 2016, the Trump campaign received a request for a meeting from a Russian lawyer offering harmful information on Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump Jr. and other senior Trump advisers accepted the meeting. The Trump team did not obtain the dirt they’d hoped for. But the very fact of the meeting confirmed to the Russian side the Trump campaign’s eagerness to accept Russian assistance. Shortly after, Trump delivered his “Russia, if you’re listening” invitation at his last press conference of the campaign.

    WikiLeaks released two big caches of hacked Democratic emails in July and October 2016. In the words of the Senate Intelligence Committee: “WikiLeaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian intelligence campaign and very likely knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort.”

    Through its ally Roger Stone, the Trump campaign team assiduously tried to communicate with WikiLeaks.

    Before the second WikiLeaks release, “Trump and the Campaign believed that Stone had inside information and expressed satisfaction that Stone’s information suggested more releases would be forthcoming,” according to the Senate Intelligence Committee. In late summer and early fall 2016, Stone repeatedly predicted that WikiLeaks would publish an “October surprise” that would harm the Clinton campaign.

    At the same time as it welcomed Russian help, the Trump campaign denied and covered up Russian involvement: “The Trump Campaign publicly undermined the attribution of the hack-and-leak campaign to Russia and was indifferent to whether it and WikiLeaks were furthering a Russian election interference effort,” the Intelligence Committee found.

    In March 2016, the Trump campaign accepted the unpaid services of Paul Manafort, deeply beholden to deeply shady Russian business and political figures. “On numerous occasions, Manafort sought to secretly share internal Campaign information” with a man the Intelligence Committee identified as a Russian intelligence officer. “Taken as a whole, Manafort’s high-level access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian intelligence services … represented a grave counterintelligence threat,” the committee found. Through 2016, the Russian state launched a massive Facebook disinformation program that aligned with the Trump campaign strategy.

    At crucial moments in the 2016 election, Trump publicly took positions that broke with past Republican policy and served no apparent domestic political purpose, but that supported Putin’s foreign-policy goals: scoffing at NATO support for Estonia, denigrating allies such as Germany, and endorsing Britain’s exit from the European Union.
    Throughout the 2016 election and after, people close to Trump got themselves into serious legal and political trouble by lying to the public, to Congress, and even to the FBI about their Russian connections.


All of these are facts that would be agreed upon even by the latter-day “Russia hoax” revisionists and, for that matter, anybody this side of Breitbart or One America News Network.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
NW Ponderer #339015 11/30/21 12:59 AM
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David Frum…David Frum…
The same David Frum of the axis of evil fame? The same David Frum who gaslight their country with respect to ‘weapons of mass destruction’ claims that turned out to be pure B.S.?
Priming the country to invade Iraq that lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths of innocent Iraqi’s David Frum?
Tell me it’s not the same David Frum that argued war would bring stable democracy to the Middle East is it?
This isn’t the neocon conservative think tank war hawk and former Busch jr. speech writer that was against the Iranian nuclear deal and has pushed for war with Iran David Frum is it?

Does David Frum have credibility with you NWP?

Lots of innuendo, no real criminality from your post.

Didn’t Manafort do work for the Podesta group in the Ukraine? Same group that was referred by Mueller to the SDNY for its foreign lobby registration omissions?

Last edited by chunkstyle; 11/30/21 01:01 AM.
Greger #339028 11/30/21 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Greger
Some interesting stuff coming out about Hunter Biden and China and the Czech .
Don Jr is a known coke addict…should orange Fatboy be held accountable for Jrs actions? Of course not!


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chunkstyle #339029 11/30/21 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by chunkstyle
Does David Frum have credibility with you NWP?
Jesus, you're just a repetitious one-note song, aren't you.

NO, I'm not quoting David Frum because he's a "credible source" or I believe in him, but because he lays out the FACTS that were laid out by the REPUBLICAN committee that investigated the circumstances. Neither has an incentive to undercut the Republican party or further a Democratic agenda. There's a legal principle behind that credibility, it's called "a statement against interest." A genuine suggestion: get out of your own head, listen to reason, and evaluate things rationally, my friend. I really don't know where you are coming from, but it isn't the real world.

Have you read the Mueller Report? Do you have a clue what is in it? Do you have a law degree? Have you evaluated the evidence in light of the law? You keep pulling things out of god-know-where and making outlandish pronouncements that have - at best - a tentative connection to things like... oh, facts, evidence, reality. It's getting more than a little bothersome.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
pdx rick #339032 11/30/21 10:42 AM
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A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:
If a man would register all his opinions upon love, politics, religion, learning, etc., beginning from his youth and so go on to old age, what a bundle of inconsistencies and contradictions would appear at last! -Jonathan Swift, satirist (30 Nov 1667-1745)


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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