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#339171 12/03/21 02:01 PM
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You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
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Yeah, sure. Just like public goods and services. It’s verboten with right wingers. But honestly, what’s the difference besides norms s and manners?


U.S. holds historic oil and gas lease sale in Gulf of Mexico days after climate summit

Oh, and what’s your solution then?

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Gaslighters R Us

It might be, shall we say, 'premature' to call this sustainable? I think all that can be truthfully said at this time is that it's not directly fossil fuel.

The Question Marks that popped up in my mind included these:

- The jet fuel is made from corn - corn is made from industrial farming - industrial farming is dependent upon fossil fuels and soil destruction is a major contributor to increased atmospheric CO2.
- The cost is 8X fossil fuel.
- There is an implicit assumption that air transportation is a necessity and not a luxury, therefor reduction is not an option.


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
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Originally Posted by chunkstyle
Oh, and what’s your solution then?
It's hard for me to believe that after 11 years of posts you don't know what 'my solution' is.

If I may ask, did you watch the entire video?

I'm getting the idea that you aren't actually interested in solutions.


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
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I wonder what the process is for preparing and offering oil and gas leases? It is of little consequence, I suppose, since the sale happened while the Dems have a slim version of 'total control' of the government.

And it is probably of no consequence, either, that the right has been setting up the game for 50 years using psy-ops strategies. The Dems do that too, right?

All same-same... prove me wrong.


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
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Yeah, triple bottom line paydays, right? Just kidding.
Yeah, getting corn out of our gas is a winner. Now that Iowa primaries are discredited I hope we can see movement here.
This is one framing of the climate dilemma. How to reach the ‘conservatives’.
It’s fine I guess but your going to have to square that with blue checks being fine with their thirst for oil money. Obama recently, Biden currently.

This could also be framed generationally. Wealthy Boomer’s lifestyle is a non-negotiable subject but is a major contributor. Who believes shuttling two wrinkled arses down a highway using 5 tons of steel, iron, rubber and pressboard to go visit the kids on holidays can be sustained?

I don’t think there’s one side (conservatives) to climate denial is all I’m saying. There’s plenty to go around. But yeah, largely I agree that conservatives are as aware, if not more so, of their material conditions and country conservatives have a respect for ma nature, from my experience.

Lotsa angles to this terminal problem.

Last edited by chunkstyle; 12/03/21 03:51 PM.
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For the record - I agree with Greger (if I understand his position correctly) that the solution will be collapse. The main reason for this is that humans are basically asleep and cannot wake up enough, or in large enough numbers, to consciously and intentionally turn away from our destructive natures.

The question for me is what should I do in the meantime? My choice, hobby perhaps, is to try to intentionally change some things that I can actually influence. That is an illusion I like to feed on (nod to Mr. Conrad).


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
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I agree, much is baked in the cake. Building our countries infrastructure out while simultaneously hitting the biggest elephant field in Arabia with industrial capitalism at its peak, in this country, makes the situation dammed difficult. The inferstrucksure package just passed didn’t help much. Further emerging the auto as the main source of transport.

Have you read ‘Ministry of the Future’? An interesting peice of science fiction set in the near future based on current climate modeling. It covers a lot of ground and has a unique narrative structure.

We know with our current politics pushing everything into a culture war that can’t be won, sustains the market status quo and preserves government largess to a suicidal arrangement. Extraordinary situation.

If the planets biosphere is to survive in a state for allowing organized human life, adjustments must be made. The several thousand humans, sociopaths by definition, are making this decision for us and the cultural landscape, manufactured by them, supports this arrangement.

Although China gets slot of bad press, I was struck to read about their ‘sponge cities’ in the reporting on the flooding there this past summer. At least China has operational capacity. We seem to have sold the farm for an Ayn Rand pipe dream.

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Quote
For the record - I agree with Greger (if I understand his position correctly) that the solution will be collapse.
Collapse of what...?
My solution is to get Boomers out of power as soon as possible. 20th-century solutions aren't gonna work in the 21st century.

The world has moved on.

Boomers are still looking for analog answers in a digital world.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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Ok
Last thing and I’ll shut up a while.
I live in Deep red rural country.
The local politics is like that is any rural community. There’s lots of power nodes but the elected offices are held by the same rotating families.
Within that was a local inferstrucksure project that was funded by state/federal grants with a large assist from our Republican state Senator and local mayor.
With that backdrop, the community passed a decades long third rail voter issue. Bringing in sewers. Hotly contested by parties, household incomes (hook up fees, monthly bill replacing septic tanks that work for free), cherished tree destruction, historical society protest, etc, etc

It passed and is mostly built now. It passed during high Trump fever. It’s main selling point was its environmental friendly design of the treatment plant. So quite it could be cited next to residents. Mostly solar powered with the exception of a 5hp. Electric pump. All contained within a single small building that requires almost no heating and is dirt cheap to run and maintain. You can always appeal to a conservatives pocket. Everyone gets ‘I does a good job and it’s cheap to run’.

Contrast that with the wind tower wars that split the very same communities apart. Very badly handled. Outside shady companies barging there way in, using law fare and bribes to subdue local community or political opposition. Pitting neighbor against neighbor with those large landowners getting a monthly payday from the site leases on their properties, while the neighbors got new setback restrictions and use on their properties. Eminent domain on a few.

The culture war was like so many others with some, mostly well off liberals making clucking sounds of disapproval at the rednecks that were resisting. Well the rednecks had a right to complain and anyone who’s been screwed will look for allies and, if climate denial is a friend in your fight, a friend in need is a friend indeed.

That windmill war happened BEFORE the same people agreed on the very environmental sewer project that was a source of rub for decades. One was seen as a benefit in different ways, another aggressive, foreign and extractive. One more horizontally aligned the other more vertical.

That’s why I think class and material politics matter.

Last edited by chunkstyle; 12/03/21 05:13 PM.
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