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jgw #339194 12/04/21 12:50 AM
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Your last sentence is probably truer than you realize. “Course if all you wanted was bad man gone then you probably have little to complain about.”

The Democrats wanting Trump gone was in my opinion the main reason why they nominate Joe Biden. He was a safe bet to beat Trump. A lot of the other candidates were very iffy. Biden was looked on as a sure thing. Add to that the swing voters, independents who also voted for Biden to get rid of Trump, you had an election winning combination. At least at the presidential level. 24% of all those who voted, voted against a candidate, not for the other guy, but against one candidate. Biden received 68% of that vote vs. 30% for Trump. Among those who voted for a candidate, a candidate they really wanted to win, which according to CNN exit polls consisted of 71% of those who turned out and voted, Trump won them 53-48 over Biden.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/exit-polls/president/national-results

It was that the anti-vote decided the presidential election by those who just wanted Trump gone. A lot of those who voted against Trump by casting a ballot for Biden, then turned around and voted Republican down ballot. 7 million folks who voted for Biden, I should say against Trump, not necessarily for Biden, turned around and voted for Republican congressional candidates enabling the GOP to pick up 13 house seats.

If one looks at the whole election of Nov 2020, the whole ballot and all the results, it was in my opinion purely an anti-Trump election. Nothing more, nothing less. No desire for new legislation, just a desire to be rid of Trump. Not an endorsement or rejection of either party’s agenda, ideals etc., just a rejection of Trump. But not Republicans as they gained 13 house seats, 2 state legislatures and a governor all the while losing the presidency by 7 million plus votes.Results like that never happens.

I think the Democrats have read the Nov 2020 election entirely wrong. They took it as a mandate and that’s not what the people voted for. I think the people in the way they voted, against Trump, for a democrat for president and then for republican house members, just wanted a return to normalcy and to put someone with a bit of sanity back in the White House. So yes, for millions of Americans, just getting rid of the bad guy was good enough. My two cents anyway.

Last edited by perotista; 12/04/21 01:47 AM.

It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
Greger #339208 12/04/21 03:46 PM
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He raised Joe to be an elitist.
I believe the standard statement for what parents hope happens to their children is, they, the children, will become "better" than the parents. I have to conclude in your case parents should not encourage their children to excel or bet "better".

Sometimes it is in what is not said, but implied.


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rporter314 #339211 12/04/21 05:03 PM
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Biden Sr. was initially wealthy, "sailing yachts off the New England coast, riding to the hounds, driving fast cars, flying airplanes." In 1941, Biden Sr. married Jean (maiden name Finnegan) from Scranton, PA. Biden Jr. was the oldest of four and portrays their time in Scranton as idyllic. Biden Sr. worked for a company that made sealant for merchant marine ships during World War II, but had difficulty finding work in the decades that followed.
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An old classmate from college recalled the not-so-legal exchange to The New York Times, saying, "Every weekend, somehow, Joe ended up with a car. It was always a convertible. Besides being very cool and dressing right, showing up in a convertible he had us all beat eight ways from Sunday."
LINK

Joe Sr. didn't raise Junior just to be "better".

He raised him to be "better than everyone else"


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jgw #339221 12/04/21 11:23 PM
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Biden was the candidate, first, because of the support of Clyburn which, pretty much, assured black votes. The other thing is that the other candidates were, pretty much, either not well known or offensive to most of the independents. He was also a faithful Democrat, for years, and pretty much stuck to his principles. All told he wasn't a bad candidate. He is, now, actually starting to be a president as well. A good thing, I think. (even though its taken about a year for him to stiffen the backbone and learning that the Republicans were never going to come around to normal). This seems to be a Democratic thing. I can remember Obama going through the same thing. Its kinda interesting. Both of them have also had problems with their party.

On the wishful thinking end I really wish that the dems could do their fighting a little quieter and show a more united front thereby allowing them to actually create a platform which they can all support! I don't think that will happen because they either don't understand the thought of a common goal, or just don't give a damn.

jgw #339225 12/05/21 01:32 AM
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From what I seen in the very early polls, not those for the Democratic primary, but those who matched up potential Democratic candidates against Trump late 2019 and early 2020, Biden was the best. I will admit, a lot of that was name recognition as Sanders was always second. Not doing as good as Biden did against Trump, but better than any of the others. If I remember correctly, Sanders won the first three contests prior to South Carolina, Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada. None of which had any measurable black vote.

I think that scared the Democratic Party establishment; they can read polls as easy as I can. One Gallup poll showed only 47% of all Americans would consider voting for a socialist. The rest won’t even consider doing so. I would wager they imagined Republican political ads of Sanders himself stating from his own mouth he was a Democratic socialist went running through their heads. So perhaps the Democratic big wigs stepped in with Clyburn’s help to get Biden a win in South Carolina. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know how important the black vote is to the Democrats. Blacks make up roughly a third of those who affiliate or identify themselves with the Democratic Party.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/254120/less-half-vote-socialist-president.aspx

Biden could also attract the independents voters with the others being much less successful. If the Democrats goal was to beat Trump, they chose the right candidate. Biden received 7 million votes from those who voted Republican down ballot. I don’t think any other candidate could have accomplished that. Now winning and governing are two different things. Biden has lost about half of those 7 million voters which is why the Republicans have taken a very slight lead in the generic congressional ballot. If he loses more, the midterms won’t be a happy occasion for the democrats.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #339236 12/05/21 04:53 PM
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One Gallup poll showed only 47% of all Americans would consider voting for a socialist.
But I see that number as being extremely positive! Only 4% shy of a majority vote for socialism? With Millennials and Z Gen becoming more favorable to socialism all the time?

America is entirely about money(capitalism) and people(socialism) will forever play second fiddle to the very wealthy...unless something happens to improve that dynamic.

Unless of course, you think our current situation is perfectly fine? And that our two political parties are on the right track to fix global warming, plastics pollution, dying seas, historic inequality, infrastructure collapse, food and water shortages, storms, wildfires, droughts...etc. etc. etc.

Maybe times have to get a little tougher before people realize that maybe things aren't going as smoothly as many(mostly Boomers) seem to imagine. That making rich people richer is possibly not the answer to every problem.


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jgw #339242 12/05/21 06:01 PM
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Simply using the word "socialist" is enough to turn off a LOT of voters. The problem is that the "Democratic Socialists" absolutely loves the title of socialist and they will always lose because of this. This has been debated here ad infinitum and the continuing use of the word costs the Democrats mightily. They know it yet they do nothing to change it.

I think the logic goes something like. Socialism is a wonderful thing for everybody and everybody should recognize that so we will keep on shoving it down the throats of the unbelievers until they get it. They won't but they will.

I don't get it but, I guess, I may be in a minority here. If hey work VERY hard at it they might even convince Trump that he can win again! Well done!

Last edited by jgw; 12/06/21 06:40 PM.
jgw #339243 12/05/21 06:46 PM
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That’s 47% that said they would consider voting for a socialist. It doesn’t mean they would. Heck, I consider all candidates on the ballot regardless of party, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to vote for them. Under consideration and voting for are two different things. I suppose the good news there is about half of all Americans wouldn’t rule out voting for a socialist. The bad News, a bit over half wouldn’t even consider it.

But like everything else, it probably boils down to who the candidates are. I would have voted for Sanders before I’d vote for Hillary Clinton. Now if I don’t like either one of the major party candidates, I vote third party to officially register my objections to both. No voting for the lesser evil or the candidate I want to lose the least. If I want both to lose, I vote that way via third party.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
jgw #339245 12/05/21 07:36 PM
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Simply using the word "socialist" is enough to turn off a LOT of voters.

Yes, the more hidebound moderates and most conservatives.

I'm not terribly concerned with that crowd and their fear of The People. They should really fear the Billonaire Class not the working class. \

But it is what it is until it isn't what it is.

Then it will be something else. Socialism or capitalism? People or money?

47% of likely voters might choose people over capital...Roughly the same number that voted for Trump(46.8%)


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jgw #339246 12/05/21 07:44 PM
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Yes, but tagging the GOP as the Antisocial party, might lose some indy voters that dont follow issues, but think antisocial is bad. On the other hand it could encourage some GOP/tea-party types off the sofa to vote because they identify with antisocial in general. Polling on this is not yet available.

TAT


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