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Originally Posted by Ken Condon
...These people will never give up....
Why would they? Now that they think that abortion is gone, they'll hit the abortion pill next. Guaranteed.

Why stop there? It'll be a full fascist march to trans rights, gay marriage...and may I be so bold as to include interracial marriages, and then minorities' right to vote.


Hmm


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The Texas law is particularly obnoxious because it makes no exceptions for rape or incest. That's just sociopathic. Also no exceptions for children. They just take the position that "abortion is bad" with no input from either the woman or her doctor. Sometimes abortion is very much the best treatment. And yes, it's all about punishing poor women for having sex, since women with more resources can always travel to another state with no assistance (thus nobody to sue for $10,000.)


We're flying electric helicopters on Mars yet you can't turn on your clothes dryer in Texas. That's because scientists are in charge of Mars, and Republicans are in charge of Texas.
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Children? Um…pregnant children?
Can alway travel to another state…unless family or employment obligations make such a trip a hardship?

Another problem I have with this argument has to do with rape/incest. Using these two reasons to legitimize abortion once again removes control from the woman: it says that abortion is a reasonable choice if based on the actions of the man who did the impregnating. If he was violent, abortion is a reasonable choice; otherwise no. What the the woman wants is secondary to his action.


Julia
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As a younger man I was so opposed to abortion as a personal responsibility that I went the snip 'n knot route at 26. wink


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Log, I’m not sure where your post is supposed to lead us.

First, I want to get picky about something. Your “snip” didn’t prevent abortion; it prevented pregnancy. You can only prevent an abortion when a pregnancy exists.

I knew a whole bunch of women who took a system-altering drug for years on end in order to prevent pregnancy, until/unless they decide to have a child. This drug - the”Pill” - is neither 100% successful, nor100% safe. In fact, I had to stop taking it for a while because of side effects.

This should show that a woman who does not want a child, will take a drug for 30 years to prevent it. It’s very serious business.

Finally, a quick companion piece to your post.
When I was about 25, I asked my doctor for a tubal ligation. HE said “You’re too young.” HE said “You’ll probably change your mind later. “HE said, I’ve decided you can’t have the surgery.”


Julia
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I tend sometimes to be perhaps too opaque with attempts to blend humor and 'philosophy'. A more direct take on my point was that I did the thing that men should do if they are opposed to abortion - take responsibility for themselves and don't put the burden on women.

I actually have never been opposed to a woman's right to choose, and before I got all snippity-clippity, I pondered a time or two about the fact that if I got someone pregnant I would abide by whatever she wanted, whether that be abortion (and paying for it) or responsible fatherhood - even though I never wanted to have children.

Taking it a step further (into the land of which no one speaks), I might say that I am even pro-abortion, seeing as how I think that we have overpopulated the planet - which was a factor in my personal decision to dam up the River Pryx!


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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I thought I had deleted that last post. Sorry.


Julia
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Sorry, gotta jump in once more. This conversation has, not for the first time, turned from women’s reproductive rights, to what “good men” should do to take responsibility.

That responsibility is a given. It’s not really under discussion. Lack of taking responsibility is, indeed, part of the issue but that’s not going to change.


Julia
“It’s the shipwreck that leads you to the magical island.”
(Trevor Noah)
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