Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Current Topics
Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century?
by pondering_it_all - 01/21/22 05:39 AM
The long and winding road to Dumbass
by chunkstyle - 01/21/22 04:34 AM
National Commission to Investigate the January 6
by pondering_it_all - 01/21/22 01:35 AM
Interesting read - maybe
by Mellowicious - 01/21/22 01:24 AM
Winning
by perotista - 01/20/22 05:14 PM
Round Table Winter 2021
by pdx rick - 01/20/22 03:05 PM
Texas hostages
by Mellowicious - 01/20/22 03:57 AM
Gerrymandering
by perotista - 01/18/22 04:01 AM
Lindsey v. Mitch: Senate cage match
by logtroll - 01/15/22 05:11 AM
Don't look up
by jgw - 01/14/22 10:42 PM
Complexity Science
by Jeffery J. Haas - 01/12/22 06:34 PM
What's for dinner?
by pondering_it_all - 01/02/22 09:37 PM
RoundTable For Fall 2021
by Mellowicious - 01/02/22 04:21 AM
Divorce: American Style
by pdx rick - 12/31/21 01:56 AM
Gimme some of that good ol time religion
by pondering_it_all - 12/23/21 08:19 PM
F.D.A. Will Permanently Allow Abortion Pills by Mail
by Mellowicious - 12/22/21 09:03 PM
Joe Manchin thread
by perotista - 12/22/21 08:33 PM
Popular Topics(Views)
9,795,533 my own book page
4,862,628 We shall overcome
3,978,034 Campaign 2016
3,620,736 Trump's Trumpet
2,874,601 3 word story game
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#339648 12/19/21 02:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,734
Likes: 58
L
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
L
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,734
Likes: 58
Quote
Our goal is to further develop an emergent philosophy: complexity science. Based on embracing collaboration in addition to competition - indeed, working with all the multifarious interactions that make up the forest - complexity science can transform forestry practices into what is adaptive and holistic and away from what has been overly authoritarian and simplistic.
Suzanne Simard, Finding The Mother Tree


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,734
Likes: 58
L
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
L
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,734
Likes: 58
Guess this concept didn’t spark up with anyone. It did with me because I have come to see that our general human predilection for simple understandings of the things in life tend to lead to actions that throw the complex natural systems governing virtually everything out of balance, leading to eventual collapse. The system can be the natural environment, economies, governments, population - we invariably have difficulties in appreciating complexity and figuring out how to live well with it - instead, we fight like hell to dominate the complex and make it simple.

A wise person once said, “Not knowing is a higher state of consciousness than knowing.” (Ironically, a famous idiot once used a twisted riff on this concept to justify the military invasion of Iraq…)
Quote
Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
I guess he was counting on peoples’ fear of the unknown to manipulate our acquiescence to folly?


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,603
Likes: 83
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,603
Likes: 83
Back in the 70's I got a BS in Systems Ecology while working in medical research labs. One principle I saw in both was homeostasis: Everything is the way it is because of some factors that promote it, and some factors that suppress it. The current state is because of balance. That balance may be dynamic: For example predator/prey population curves over time. More predators leads to fewer prey. Less prey leads to fewer predators. You see this kind of thing everywhere!

You even see it in politics! One Party comes into power and does stuff they want. The public reacts, and they lose their power. The other Party undoes some of their least popular actions. Rinse and repeat, forever. The places we get in trouble are cases where the homeostatic cycle time is too long. Like global warming: The planet will come back to a more temperate climate after we are all extinct for a few thousand years.


We're flying electric helicopters on Mars yet you can't turn on your clothes dryer in Texas. That's because scientists are in charge of Mars, and Republicans are in charge of Texas.
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,734
Likes: 58
L
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
L
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,734
Likes: 58
Complexity science applied to economics:

Doughnut economics


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,603
Likes: 83
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,603
Likes: 83
Pretty good speaker. Some truth in what she has to say. Some nonsense and buzzwords. I wouldn't count on the Internet of Things and 3-D printing to deliver our future, for example. Talking to my refrigerator while I'm on vacation and fabricating plastic gew-gahs is not going to make much difference. Changing the tax rates and inheritance laws could.


We're flying electric helicopters on Mars yet you can't turn on your clothes dryer in Texas. That's because scientists are in charge of Mars, and Republicans are in charge of Texas.
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,734
Likes: 58
L
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
L
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,734
Likes: 58
Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
I wouldn't count on the Internet of Things and 3-D printing to deliver our future, for example. Talking to my refrigerator while I'm on vacation and fabricating plastic gew-gahs is not going to make much difference.
True dat. I think her point, though, was the idea of decentralization and increased local self-sufficiency, which I have long seen as a necessary change. More people making the stuff they need in life, less mindless consumption of basically worthless $hit.

Interesting coincidence, I just got an email from a friend with a link to a hemp fiber lego block product. We have a local recycling business that is playing around with plastics and 3D printing, and I have a chipped biomass based block product. It’s actually something we could do in our small community. We have the resources (waste products) and the technology!



You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,603
Likes: 83
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,603
Likes: 83
Sure: I have not paid a single electric bill for two years. My solar system had to use some manufactured products, but all the installation was DIY, except for some concrete pumping. No way I could mix all that concrete from bags. I did hold the business of the hose over the forms I made. It all took about 30 minutes.
My house is a manufactured home, installed by a guy who planned to build a stick-house mansion on a different part of the property. His company was stolen by Daryl Issa, so he went bankrupt and had to move into a trailer park. Cheapest house in the neighborhood, by a factor of ten!


We're flying electric helicopters on Mars yet you can't turn on your clothes dryer in Texas. That's because scientists are in charge of Mars, and Republicans are in charge of Texas.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,655
Likes: 27
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,655
Likes: 27
Isn't complexity science just the law of unintended consequences? wink We never understand "well enough" so we never leave it alone.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,435
Likes: 14
J
jgw Offline
old hand
Offline
old hand
J
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,435
Likes: 14
Years ago the government created a spray-on concrete. If I remember correctly the concrete also contained a by product of oil production. The guy who created it came from India and it was his plan to get it to India which would allow them to create cheap, very strong, houses for less than other building materials.

There were several companies who started building these houses in the United States and they were also being built in Mexico and other places in Latin America. In Alaska they were using this stuff to build water containers. They used very large balloons and then sprayed the stuff on a balloon in a hole and they had the container! This stuff was also found to make really great fillers of holes in highways.

Anyway, now this stuff is gone. I tried to find references to it but there are none. I have always wondered what happened and why this stuff disappeared.

Oh, they would build the house out of foam, install all plumbing and electric and then just spray on the concrete and a house was born. It was very quick and, in theory, the building was incredibly strong.

jgw #339980 01/12/22 06:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 15,977
Likes: 33
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 15,977
Likes: 33
Originally Posted by jgw
Years ago the government created a spray-on concrete. If I remember correctly the concrete also contained a by product of oil production. The guy who created it came from India and it was his plan to get it to India which would allow them to create cheap, very strong, houses for less than other building materials.

There were several companies who started building these houses in the United States and they were also being built in Mexico and other places in Latin America. In Alaska they were using this stuff to build water containers. They used very large balloons and then sprayed the stuff on a balloon in a hole and they had the container! This stuff was also found to make really great fillers of holes in highways.

Anyway, now this stuff is gone. I tried to find references to it but there are none. I have always wondered what happened and why this stuff disappeared.

Oh, they would build the house out of foam, install all plumbing and electric and then just spray on the concrete and a house was born. It was very quick and, in theory, the building was incredibly strong.


Shotcrete??


"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 45 guests, and 1 robot.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
SuZQ2, KevFilthyANML, Risky, Gladys G. Jackson, Beach Baby
6,297 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums61
Topics17,275
Posts313,953
Members6,297
Most Online294
Dec 6th, 2017
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.27 Page Time: 0.015s Queries: 35 (0.004s) Memory: 3.0084 MB (Peak: 3.2529 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2022-01-21 13:30:43 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS