I have not participated in the "roots" thread, so I don't understand the references. I haven't caught up with the original references here, but I have a general disdain for "libertarian" thought as it is practiced, although I understand, and even endorse, the underlying premise that the default state of being is to be left alone. Our government is generally aligned with that premise, but it is the unwillingness to allow that there are significant exceptions to the underlying premise that makes modern "libertarianism" so internally logically inconsistent... or, phrased differently, stupid.

A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich