Originally Posted by issodhos
Originally Posted by 2wins
as far as being "collectivist," i suppose that is a fair label to pin on my, although i prefer cooperativist, thank you very much.

There is nothing in libertarian philosophy that would prevent a voluntary association of individuals engaging collectively in an activity. If you wish to have a gardening collective made up of individuals who freely chose to participate in it, your and their right to freedom of association would be recognized.
i have read the histories of alternative communities, the true anarchists, and it seems that with each attempt, the groups involved in these experiments are undone by their desire to each have it his or her own way. in the end, they have all gone their own way. conversely, the community or collectivist experiments that seem to work more effectively are those in which common agreements are struck, a core principle is put in place that allows the communities to work in concert. within each system you work with a series of individuals, and personalities, and desires. but with a shared agreement - shall we call them laws? - a social contract, if you will, these groups coexist more effectively, imo.

all of that said, as schlack points out, communism, is also workable. the problem with any system, outside of disagreements over principles, is the human element. i, for example, do not have enough faith in humanity to see a true anarchist, cooperative society, work. neither do i see a the extreme on the other end of the spectrum work. it seems that in the middle, with a set of agreements, complicated as they become, society functions together, in a more pointed direction, with a greater purpose, the perpetuation of said society. of course there will always be those who put themselves outside the system in play, complaining that they have better answer. perhaps these individuals can never be satisfied.

outside of that, selfish individuals in any system are the downfall. an individualist society would work fine, i would concede, if you were working with a group of selfless minded folks. but that is a rare beast.

sure, you can talk to god, but if you don't listen then what's the use? so, onward through the fog!