Originally Posted by 2wins
Originally Posted by Ardy
IMO it is worthwhile to consider why and how governments came into being. That is, how did primitive human groupings develop the institution of "government".

IMO, the examination of that question will show that government did not develop as a means to secure rights. And, if that is the case, it seems logically problematical to propose that this function is the EXCLUSIVE justification for the existence of the institution of government.
i'll bite on this. this brings to mind hunter/gatherers. my first thought here is that they would have organized, on some level, to ensure the group was fed and kept safe from the elements. thus, a division of labor was introduced, each person accepting a job that would assist in benefiting the whole.

As Phil also said... Guns, Germs and Steel makes an excellent reference for the dynamics underlying the development of nations.

In a nutshell... hunter gatherer societies have never developed large nations. You do not get to large nations until societies make the transition to agricultural societies. These primitive societies are operated by some sort of elite... kings, priests, chiefs, etc.

Fundamentally the king wants less internal conflict... in order to maximize the wealth and power of his domain. The king is less concerned about establishing individual rights and property ownership except as it may help his objectives of increased power.

Generally, smaller , less centralized social groups are conquered by larger social groups... and those larger social groups act sort of like black holes that suck in all the small groups around them

Large social groups (like the roman empire) have little interest in individual rights except as they may be expedient. The main an unconditional foundation of these large social groups is to maintain and enrich the ruling class/hierarchy. Anyone who gets in the way of that objective is disposed of.

"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel