Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
[quote=Senator Hatrack]To put it politely you are full of snit! You cannot accept the fact that you are wrong. A government whose powers are "few and defined" is a limited government. You are not the freaking expert know it all that you think you are! Whether or not you want to believe it our Constitution was written to limit the size of our government. Here is another quote from Madison that proves our Constitution created a limited government. "If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions."
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Sometimes, my friend, you make me feel like a parent dutifully following their child around with a bucket and sponge to clean the crayon off the wall. I won't take the crayon away, because I fully support and encourage free expression. But, I can't put the bucket away, either...

Could you be any more obnoxious or condescending? You are not my freaking parent and you are not as smart as you think you are! So quit being so obnoxious and condescending. Your smug conceited attitude is real pain in the arse and a definite impediment to a discussion with you.

Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I'll note first, that you have never cited your source for these Madison quotes. I know why, because I know where they come from - out of context and everything. You seem to think I don't follow links or read contrary opinions. I do it all the time, so I recognize the quotes and their source. I'll leave that to you.
What is the source of my quotes?

Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
As I said, Madison's views changed radically over the course of his lifetime and political career. When he co-wrote the Federalist papers with Hamilton, they were largely in accord. It was his design for a strong central government. It was later, under the influence of Jefferson and other "agrarian philosophers" that he changed his views to become quite restrictive, and oppositional to Hamilton. He changed his views again when he became President. He again became a proponent of a strong central government, and even presided over the creation of the Second Bank of the United States - something Hamilton had promoted and Jefferson had opposed.

I know that Madison's views changed over time. Everyone's does. My quotes of his are chosen because when he said them they back up the point I am making.
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
There is a reason I don't claim to be wrong - I'm not. Contrary to your denigration, I am a "freaking expert know it all".
No, you are not. In your own mind you might be but that is the only you are!
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
This was a large part of my life's work. Moreover, I have the ability to distinguish between "size" and "purpose". The Constitution created, I readily acknowledge and have often stated, a central government of "enumerated powers". Nowhere, anywhere, in the Constitution does it say "but the government can only be so big." Where those powers are delegated to the federal government they are, largely, plenary. That is the point of the Supremacy clause. That very point was the central issue in the Civil War.

The purpose of our Constitution was to create a limited government as the quote from Madison said. (Where did he say it and when?) Of course our Constitution does not directly say "but the government can only be so big." I never said it did. As a structure for our government our Constitution does limit the size of it. Our Constitution is like a house. Just as a house limits a person's movement our Constitution limits the movement of our government. The X Amendment and that the powers of our government are given to it by the people of the country are limitations on the supremacy clause. The supremacy clause was not the central issue of the Civil War. It was a contributing issue to the Civil War but it was not the central issue.
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
What you are also ignoring, deliberately I suspect, is that the tenor of the balance between State and federal authority changed substantially as a result of the Civil War and the Amendments enacted after it. The federal government gained a great deal of additional authority, and the State governments were consequently greatly constrained, thereafter. Much of what you are espousing follows, faithfully, the tenets of "Lost Cause" mythology. I don't know if that is deliberate, or just a consequence of being rabidly "conservative" in your viewpoint, but it is not realistic or consistent with where the country is, now, or has been for over a century.
Your assumption that I am ignoring the changes to our government after the Civil War is erroneous to say the least. Asinine to say the worst. But then that is what one is to expect from a "know it all." My desire to reduce the size of our government has not a goddamn thing to do with the "Lost Cause." The shift to a larger and more powerful central government might have been started shortly after the Civil War but the real growth of it occurred when the so called Progressive movement took control of our government during the administration of Woodrow Wilson*, he was a supporter of the "Lost Cause" whose favorite movie was The Birth of a Nation. A movie whose heroes were members of the KKK. The growth of our federal government, at the expense of the states, greatly increased during FDR's administration and the New Deal. A basic premise of the "Lost Cause" was the egregiously mistaken understanding of states rights. States rights do not trump human rights, especially the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That you conflate my conservatism with the "conservatism of those who wanted to perpetuate slavery or failing that keep blacks as second class citizens is an insult. Had you said that to me in person, back when I was drinking, it would have difficult for me to not punch you in the face! That you make such a stupid, asinine, and insulting comment is proof positive that you nowhere near as smart as you think you are. Then you compound the insult by suggesting that I am living in the past.
* Woodrow Wilson Godfather of Liberalism

The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary